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#21
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Grumpy au Contraire wrote:
> Uh, last time I checked, the NON rust belt only included portions of > Texas, New Mexico, most of Arizona and California (except for the > immedidate coast). Last time *I* checked, you're wrong. |
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#22
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"Tegger®" wrote: > > Grumpy au Contraire > sprach im > : > > > Uh, last time I checked, the NON rust belt only included portions of > > Texas, New Mexico, most of Arizona and California (except for the > > immedidate coast). > > > > > > MD is definitely in the rust belt... > > > > > > The "Rust Belt" is anywhere salt is regularly used on the roads in the > winter. > > You're thinking of areas that experience very dry climates, not the same > thing. > > -- > TeGGeR® It is to me... I like turning fifty year old nuts 'n bolts without 'em snapping... -- JT Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4 |
#23
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message n.umich.edu... | | Just this past weekend, I saw a completely unrusted *1978 Plymouth | Caravelle "woodie" wagon*. That is a Canadian-market badge-up of the | F-body Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen. These cars, while they weren't *quite* | as bad as the Chevrolet Vega, were practically made out of compressed | rust. One seldom sees such a car as this in any condition here in Toronto, | which sees heavy road salt four to five months out of the year. | | There was a "Rustproofed with Waxoyl" sticker in the lower left corner of | the windshield; the condition of the car is quite a high recommendation | for that product. | | FWIW, of course. I'd bet that little on that F-body was factory original. The last fleet of Volare's I drove was just unbelievable. Even the dashboard shook like it was going to fall off in your lap at every road seam. I can't imagine any of those still even running unless completely rebuilt (or should I say, re-engineered) |
#24
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The Caravelle was a nice looking car, I'd say.
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#25
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"Tegger®" wrote: > > Grumpy au Contraire > sprach im > : > > > > > > > "Tegger®" wrote: > > >> The "Rust Belt" is anywhere salt is regularly used on the roads in > >> the winter. > >> > >> You're thinking of areas that experience very dry climates, not the > >> same thing. > >> > > > > > > It is to me... I like turning fifty year old nuts 'n bolts without > > 'em snapping... > > > > > > THIS is the Rust Belt: > http://www.tegger.com/images/tacoma.jpg > Anything like this happen in Maryland? I think not. > > -- > TeGGeR® I guess you are not really aware of the combination of snow, slush, salt/chemicals taking a toll on vehicles throughout the majority of the US, eh? Maryland is well within that range as is DC, VA, N/S Carolina, Geogia, etc. Get a freakin' clue... -- JT Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4 |
#26
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Tegger writes:
>I've spent time in all the states you list except the Carolinas. Nowhere >did I ever see the sort of rust damage as in that photo unless the vehicle >carried New York, Michigan or other Great Lakes plates. Check out most of New England, NJ, almost anywhere along the eastern shoreline where it drops below freezing and snows. The damage won't be that extreme, but, then, you don't see that much damage anywhere very often. Of course, there's a difference. I moved from NY to VA many years ago, and was able to stop doing my biannual exhaust system replacement, among other things. The 30-36" of snow we get annually in this area, doesn't begin to compare to the 100+ inches Albany got, nor does our normal winter low of 10 compare to the -10, nor do we have the extra month of winter that upstate NY gets. So the damage is not as bad, but it is there. Charlie Self "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary." Thomas Paine |
#27
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message .umich.edu... > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, dreas wrote: > > The F-bodies (Aspen, Volare) went away after the 1981 model year, and the I thought it was 1980 |
#28
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message .umich.edu... > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, dreas wrote: > > > > The conversation wasn't about '80s Caravelles, which are M-bodies, but > > > about '70s Caravelles, which are F-bodies. The M-bodies were *greatly* > > > improved in corrosion resistance compared to their M-body progenitors. > > > > Now I'm good and confused. > > My fault for making a thoroughly unclear comment about F vs. M bodies and > completely omitting the K-car derivative Caravelles. To me, the F and M's are all about the same, being the same size with more or less the same chassis and drivetrain beneath them. I don't much care for anything FWD. Since driving an 82 or 83 Aries K, I'm not impressed by them... > The Diplomat, LeBaron and Canadian Caravelle were introduced in the late > 1970s (1977, 1977 and 1978, respectively) as upmarket versions of the > F-bodies (Aspen and Volare). Don't remember when the Plymouth Gran Fury > got badge-engineered into existence from a Diplomat. Sheetmetal changes > relative to the Aspen/Volare were EXTREMELY limited...basically new front > and rear header panels and slightly reshaped hoods and trunks on the > 4-doors. The rest of the exterior differences involved schtuff like landau > roofs with opera lights, chrome trim, phony wire wheel covers, ornaments, > badges, etc. For most intents and purposes, the only significant > difference between an "F-body" and an "M-body" was the designation -- it > was only four years earlier that most sheetmetal would not interchange > between same-year Dodge Darts and Plymouth Valiants, both A-bodies! The one difference is that the front suspension was modified. Didn't the torsion bars on F bodies go longitudinal like on my '80 New Yorker? And didn't the torsion bars go transverse on later model [M-body] Dodges and Plymouths? > The F-bodies (Aspen, Volare) went away after the 1981 model year, and the > M-bodies continued their slow and very limited evolution. Rustproofing got > much better, and there were some sheetmetal changes, but the undercar > stuff (suspension, etc.) as well as the doors(!) remained interchangeable > with F-body items. This was true until the last little styling change in > '87 slightly modified the windowframe shape of the rear doors. Heh. That would depend on if your car is a Fifth Avenue, or Diplomat/Caravelle. > > Are you saying that there was a Caravelle with a Volare/Aspen type body? > > All the early Caravelles had a "Volare/Aspen type body" with the same > minor differences that set a Diplomat apart from an Aspen. > > > what about those FWD 80's Caravelles that look like slightly enlarged > > K-cars, resembling Chrysler E-class cars? > > Yep, Plymouth Caravelle - Dodge 600 - Chrysler E-class. What about them? They were produced at the same time as the M-bodies with the same nameplates on them. I'm not interested in them anyway... > > Let's not get started on all the different things that were called New > > Yorker from 1980 to 1990. > > Oh, no, let's! There was the M-body Chrysler New Yorker Fifth Avenue (not > to be confused with the K-car derivative or the AC-body introduced in '89 > or so as a rebadged Dodge Die-nasty. I looked at Die-Nastys once or twice, but the FWD kept killing the idea for me. I prefer RWD if given the choice... The real New Yorker Fifth Avenue was bigger, like a St. Regis. Mine was a 1980 with a stainless steel top, and the top was alligator-grain vinyl to the back of the top. I converted it to run on propane, got tired of it and sold it. I'd still like to get the 360 from that and put it in my Caravelle... I'd like to get another '80 New Yorker. I'm sure I'll find one eventually. There are a few around, and it will only be a matter of time before I find one up for sale in reasonable condition with the full leather interior... Right now, my garage/driveway contains a '87 Trans Am, the '87 Caravelle 318, and a '68 Montego. Is three cars enough? All I need is space for more, ;-] -'dreas |
#29
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On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, dreas wrote:
> > badges, etc. For most intents and purposes, the only significant > > difference between an "F-body" and an "M-body" was the designation -- > > it was only four years earlier that most sheetmetal would not > > interchange between same-year Dodge Darts and Plymouth Valiants, both > > A-bodies! > > The one difference is that the front suspension was modified. Didn't the > torsion bars on F bodies go longitudinal like on my '80 New Yorker? And > didn't the torsion bars go transverse on later model [M-body] Dodges and > Plymouths? Nope. That is not correct. The front suspension is identical in concept and implementation between F and M bodies; both use transverse torsion bars. > The real New Yorker Fifth Avenue was bigger, like a St. Regis. ....until 1980, yes. It was an R-body, which was nothing more or less than the old B/E body platform with longitudinal torsion bars. |
#30
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Charlie Self wrote: > > Tegger writes: > > >I've spent time in all the states you list except the Carolinas. Nowhere > >did I ever see the sort of rust damage as in that photo unless the vehicle > >carried New York, Michigan or other Great Lakes plates. > > Check out most of New England, NJ, almost anywhere along the eastern shoreline > where it drops below freezing and snows. The damage won't be that extreme, but, > then, you don't see that much damage anywhere very often. Of course, there's a > difference. I moved from NY to VA many years ago, and was able to stop doing my > biannual exhaust system replacement, among other things. The 30-36" of snow we > get annually in this area, doesn't begin to compare to the 100+ inches Albany > got, nor does our normal winter low of 10 compare to the -10, nor do we have > the extra month of winter that upstate NY gets. So the damage is not as bad, > but it is there. > > Charlie Self > "When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not > hereditary." Thomas Paine I used to live in RI and the difference between being on the coast or in the far northwestern part of the state could mean as much as twenty degrees and rain vs. snow. At other times, the heaviest snow was on the coast and decreased as you moved inland. It's a crap shoot. Some years practically no snow and others would see a hundred inches or more. I lived in the DC area and that is definitely in the same boat. Perhaps not quite as much frozen precipitation but significant amounts never the less. Go to inland areas (fifty miles or more) of the Carolinas and ditto. I would not drive a treasured car in any of these areas during foul weather. Best to get a beater to do that... -- JT Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4 |
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