Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

Oren wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:38:56 -0800:

> I'll be your huckleberry Danny. Do as you like.

Thanks for being on my support team!

On 12/13/2015 2:23 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> Oren wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:41:47 -0800:
>
>> When the huckleberries are ripe, grab your bucket and run.
>
> What I love about knowing how to do something is that you
> then know whether the pro is following the rules or not.
>
> Most often, sadly, they skip many steps, mainly because they
> really don't care.
>
> But you'd never know, unless you knew enough to know.
>

I've got the music from Star Trek floating
through my head. A five year mission, to
seek out new wisdom, and understanding.

I also like to learn some about other trades,
nice to be able to tell which guys and gals
are doing it correctly.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 12/13/2015 04:34 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 12/13/2015 2:23 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>> Oren wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:41:47 -0800:
>>
>>> When the huckleberries are ripe, grab your bucket and run.
>>
>> What I love about knowing how to do something is that you
>> then know whether the pro is following the rules or not.
>>
>> Most often, sadly, they skip many steps, mainly because they
>> really don't care.
>>
>> But you'd never know, unless you knew enough to know.
>>
>
> I've got the music from Star Trek floating
> through my head. A five year mission, to
> seek out new wisdom, and understanding.
>
> I also like to learn some about other trades,
> nice to be able to tell which guys and gals
> are doing it correctly.

Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to stop them :-( The used
Japanese engine installer I HAD to go to was required to adjust the
valves after nnn miles. I watched him do it and he did it wrong. He
probably did other stuff wrong too, and the engine lasted only maybe 15K
miles before it started blowing and burning oil.

The "expert" at Chick's Sporting Goods (now defunct, probably for good
reason) used the wrong screwdriver to try to remove my ski binding,
partially stripping out the screw he was working on. I asked if he was
using the correct (torx, I think; it's been a while since I cared)
screwdriver. <jerk slaps forehead> Fortunately Sport Chalet could solve
the problem.

--
Cheers, Bev
----------------------------------------------------------------
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners." --Ernst Jan Plugge

The Real Bev wrote, on Sun, 13 Dec 2015 08:53:11 -0800:

> Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to stop them :-( The used
> Japanese engine installer I HAD to go to was required to adjust the
> valves after nnn miles. I watched him do it and he did it wrong. He
> probably did other stuff wrong too, and the engine lasted only maybe 15K
> miles before it started blowing and burning oil.
>
> The "expert" at Chick's Sporting Goods (now defunct, probably for good
> reason) used the wrong screwdriver to try to remove my ski binding,
> partially stripping out the screw he was working on. I asked if he was
> using the correct (torx, I think; it's been a while since I cared)
> screwdriver. <jerk slaps forehead> Fortunately Sport Chalet could solve
> the problem.

I can't count how many times I've seen a repair person use the wrong
tool on our bolts and nuts. Most use whatever is in their pocket at
that very moment, whether or not it's the right tool.

I've seen PG&E people using linesman pliers to remove slotted bolts;
I've seen 'em pry open boxes using screwdrivers. It cost them time
to go back to the truck to get the right tool.

I've watched my tires mounted, and, I will say that based only on my
experience, 0% of tires are mounted according to the proper methods
(I'm not saying tires are falling off cars - but that they don't use
the proper tools or methods - all of which they *know* but they don't
care to follow).

For example, almost *never* when I look at car tires in the Costco
parking lot with brand new tires, is the dot in the correct place.

Pretty much, almost never is a professional job done right, least of
all garage door springs. But you have to *know* what to look for
before you can notice that they almost always do the job wrong.

If you want it done right, then you have to do it yourself.
I doubt tire repair is any different.

On 12/13/2015 10:53 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/13/2015 04:34 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> On 12/13/2015 2:23 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>>> Oren wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:41:47 -0800:
>>>
>>>> When the huckleberries are ripe, grab your bucket and run.
>>>
>>> What I love about knowing how to do something is that you
>>> then know whether the pro is following the rules or not.
>>>
>>> Most often, sadly, they skip many steps, mainly because they
>>> really don't care.
>>>
>>> But you'd never know, unless you knew enough to know.
>>>
>>
>> I've got the music from Star Trek floating
>> through my head. A five year mission, to
>> seek out new wisdom, and understanding.
>>
>> I also like to learn some about other trades,
>> nice to be able to tell which guys and gals
>> are doing it correctly.
>
> Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to stop them :-( The
> used Japanese engine installer I HAD to go to was required
> to adjust the valves after nnn miles. I watched him do it
> and he did it wrong. He probably did other stuff wrong too,
> and the engine lasted only maybe 15K miles before it started
> blowing and burning oil.
>
> The "expert" at Chick's Sporting Goods (now defunct,
> probably for good reason) used the wrong screwdriver to try
> to remove my ski binding, partially stripping out the screw
> he was working on. I asked if he was using the correct
> (torx, I think; it's been a while since I cared)
> screwdriver. <jerk slaps forehead> Fortunately Sport Chalet
> could solve the problem.
>

Some of the ski industry also uses PoziDrive. But agree
someone in the business ought to know the various formats

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 13 Dec 2015 01:36:10 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>Tekkie® wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:53:22 -0500:
>
>> Snipped because I'm tired of seeing the same reply to posts. It was directed
>> at you. As others have said there are some things others should do. If you
>> REALLY wanted to know how to do it you would have DAGS. Education is not
>> free. The uneducated have to pay the price. You are paying nothing but
>> replying with snarky knitting group answers. Grow up. The world doesn't
>> exist just for you. You are on the same plane as Stumped.
>
>This is wrong. Dead wrong. But you're entitled to your opinion.
>If you don't know how to do it, you don't really need to respond anyway.
>I'll learn from the guys who *do* know how to do the job right anyway.
>
>If you think for a split second that the guy who repairs your tires
>gives a hoot about your safety, you're dead wrong.
>
>They're just trying to get "stuff" through their shop.
>That's it. To them, you're just another 'job'.
>
>The proof is that *every* time I watch them, I see them make mistake
>after mistake after mistake after mistake (some of which has already
>been reported).
>
>The ancient adage still holds, despite the fact you seem to think
>it doesn't hold true.
>
>If you want the job done right - do it yourself.

How many times have you read "don't support the calipers with the
hose." Yet I've seen them do this at shop after shop.

On 12/13/2015 09:57 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> I've watched my tires mounted, and, I will say that based only on my
> experience, 0% of tires are mounted according to the proper methods
> (I'm not saying tires are falling off cars - but that they don't use
> the proper tools or methods - all of which they*know* but they don't
> care to follow).

I watched a 'pro' mount tube type tires on my bike without using a tube.
They weren't spoked wheels so they might have held air for a while.

On 12/13/2015 08:57 AM, Danny D. wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote, on Sun, 13 Dec 2015 08:53:11 -0800:
>
>> Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to stop them :-( The used
>> Japanese engine installer I HAD to go to was required to adjust the
>> valves after nnn miles. I watched him do it and he did it wrong. He
>> probably did other stuff wrong too, and the engine lasted only maybe 15K
>> miles before it started blowing and burning oil.
>>
>> The "expert" at Chick's Sporting Goods (now defunct, probably for good
>> reason) used the wrong screwdriver to try to remove my ski binding,
>> partially stripping out the screw he was working on. I asked if he was
>> using the correct (torx, I think; it's been a while since I cared)
>> screwdriver. <jerk slaps forehead> Fortunately Sport Chalet could solve
>> the problem.
>
> I can't count how many times I've seen a repair person use the wrong
> tool on our bolts and nuts. Most use whatever is in their pocket at
> that very moment, whether or not it's the right tool.
>
> I've seen PG&E people using linesman pliers to remove slotted bolts;
> I've seen 'em pry open boxes using screwdrivers. It cost them time
> to go back to the truck to get the right tool.
>
> I've watched my tires mounted, and, I will say that based only on my
> experience, 0% of tires are mounted according to the proper methods
> (I'm not saying tires are falling off cars - but that they don't use
> the proper tools or methods - all of which they *know* but they don't
> care to follow).
>
> For example, almost *never* when I look at car tires in the Costco
> parking lot with brand new tires, is the dot in the correct place.

Dot? Explain...

> Pretty much, almost never is a professional job done right, least of
> all garage door springs. But you have to *know* what to look for
> before you can notice that they almost always do the job wrong.
>
> If you want it done right, then you have to do it yourself.
> I doubt tire repair is any different.
>


--
Cheers,
Bev
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the
majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that
they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards

On 12/13/2015 09:20 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/13/2015 10:53 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 12/13/2015 04:34 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2015 2:23 AM, Danny D. wrote:
>>>> Oren wrote, on Sat, 12 Dec 2015 18:41:47 -0800:
>>>>
>>>>> When the huckleberries are ripe, grab your bucket and run.
>>>>
>>>> What I love about knowing how to do something is that you
>>>> then know whether the pro is following the rules or not.
>>>>
>>>> Most often, sadly, they skip many steps, mainly because they
>>>> really don't care.
>>>>
>>>> But you'd never know, unless you knew enough to know.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've got the music from Star Trek floating
>>> through my head. A five year mission, to
>>> seek out new wisdom, and understanding.
>>>
>>> I also like to learn some about other trades,
>>> nice to be able to tell which guys and gals
>>> are doing it correctly.
>>
>> Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to stop them :-( The
>> used Japanese engine installer I HAD to go to was required
>> to adjust the valves after nnn miles. I watched him do it
>> and he did it wrong. He probably did other stuff wrong too,
>> and the engine lasted only maybe 15K miles before it started
>> blowing and burning oil.
>>
>> The "expert" at Chick's Sporting Goods (now defunct,
>> probably for good reason) used the wrong screwdriver to try
>> to remove my ski binding, partially stripping out the screw
>> he was working on. I asked if he was using the correct
>> (torx, I think; it's been a while since I cared)
>> screwdriver. <jerk slaps forehead> Fortunately Sport Chalet
>> could solve the problem.
>>
>
> Some of the ski industry also uses PoziDrive. But agree
> someone in the business ought to know the various formats

That's it, not torx. All ski bindings use pozidrive. I wonder if
that's just to keep ordinary customers from fiddling with them. When
bindings get too old no official ski repair person will touch them, and
lists of acceptable-for-repair bindings come out each year. No idea
about snowboard bindings. I waited weeks for this guy, the "ski expert"
to come back from wherever he was. When I asked him about the
screwdriver he immediately knew that he'd screwed (ha!) up, so that's at
least one point in his favor.


--
Cheers, Bev
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ =+=
"The object in life is not to be on the side of the
majority, but to be insane in such a useful way that
they can't commit you." -- Mark Edwards

The Real Bev wrote, on Sun, 13 Dec 2015 21:05:30 -0800:

> Dot? Explain...

It's part of the match mounting process to ensure the least amount of
imbalance at the time the tire is mounted on the rim.

Yokohama, for example, here's a verbatim quote from Yokohama:
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-10...match-mounting
"To facilitate proper balancing, Yokohama places red
and yellow marks on the sidewalls of its tires to enable
the best possible match-mounting of the tire/wheel assembly.
There are two methods of match-mounting Yokohama tires to
wheel assemblies using these red or yellow marks:
- Uniformity (red mark)
- Weight (yellow mark)"

When I mounted my tires myself, I used the red-dot method (which
always takes precedence over the yellow-dot for the brand of my tires:
https://www.ehow.com/how_7783097_mou...s-red-dot.html

Here's a decent description:
http://www.sumitomotire.com/assets/p...nce%20DOTS.pdf
The Balance Marks will be indicated as follows:
Yellow - Within 3 inches to either side of the YELLOW circle is the LIGHT
spot of the tire. Each tire is confirmed at the factory for
radial balance, and marked at this point. For most mounting
practices, Sumitomo suggests mounting this YELLOW circle near the
valve stem, and use of industry recommended procedures for safe tire mounting.
Red – A RED circle denotes a measurement of high-speed run out (measurement called
HARMONIC). If the wheel/rim is an OE spec rim, it is marked at the factory
with a DIMPLE (in the rim/wheel heel). If this tire/rim assembly gives a
vibration at high speed with the YELLOW circle at the valve stem and the
bead is checked for proper seating, then the RED circle should
be matched with the DIMPLE.

So, notice a few things:
1. It's "work" to figure out what the dots mean, and work is effort which
the tire monkeys don't feel like doing.

2. In the end, they "compensate" for their lack of effort with more weight
when they dynamically balance.

3. In "my" (limited) experience, proper match mounting to the wheels (mine
are BBS rims), allows for very little weight to be needed, and almost
perfect balance before you put a single weight on in the first place.

NOTE: I'm very well aware that lazy people say it doesn't matter whether
you match mount or not; but notice those are the people, who, in
general, don't *understand* this stuff, or, who just plop on weights
not caring how many they add or where, just so long as their machine
is happy.