Driver gets 51 years to life for Adenhart death

jgar the jorrible > writes:

> Funny also how people would rather have a house in the 'burbs, if they
> possibly can.

Actually, the big factor for most suburban dwellers is that you get a
bigger house for less money. That the same house would sell for more
in an urban area should tell you that most people would prefer living
in an urban area, other factors being equal.

-- Patrick

Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article <6159fb17-fd30-4123-a8bc-
> >, says...
>
>
>> So what happens if you buy a new house in an expensive New Urban
>> walkable development, and you know there is a neighborhood church
>> going in down the street, and it turns out there was a secret
>> agreement between the church and the developer not to let buyers know
>> it's really a megachurch and your street turns into ground zero every
>> Sunday? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=liberty+station...ch+smoking+gun
>
> What exactly is the problem here?
>
> If I had to guess, I'd say excessive traffic and noise, but the TV
> station didn't say why the developers are being sued.
>> jg

Whenever you buy a house from someone else, you know at least one thing. The
people you are buying it from want to sell it, and move somewhere else. Why,
you may never know. So, you are taking a chance that whatever prompted them
to leave may also prompt you to want to leave at some later time. The
question is, is the reason an excuse for a lawsuit?

On Dec 27, 12:38*pm, Patrick Scheible > wrote:
> jgar the jorrible > writes:
>
> > Funny also how people would rather have a house in the 'burbs, if they
> > possibly can.
>
> Actually, the big factor for most suburban dwellers is that you get a
> bigger house for less money. *That the same house would sell for more
> in an urban area should tell you that most people would prefer living
> in an urban area, other factors being equal.
>
> -- Patrick

The other factors aren't equal. That's the nature of real estate.

Liberty station, 3 bed 3 bath, 2600 sq ft. $680K.
Carlsbad, 3 bed 3 bath, 2000 sq ft, $695K.
And I've watched this one drop from $2M, got a postcard it was in
escrow: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17...16628415_zpid/
(I used to live next door to it when it was a piece of crap, I offered
the bank $150K in 1992, but they shined me on, so I bought a ZR1
instead. Deal o' the century to whoever scores it now for $895K, a
prime example of how far off real estate is from free market
economics.)

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...ng-pedestrian/

On 12/27/10 12:38, Patrick Scheible wrote:

> jgar the > writes:
>
>> Funny also how people would rather have a house in the 'burbs, if they
>> possibly can.
>
> Actually, the big factor for most suburban dwellers is that you get a
> bigger house for less money. That the same house would sell for more
> in an urban area should tell you that most people would prefer living
> in an urban area, other factors being equal.

I doubt it. You forget that not everybody wants to live cheek-by-jowl
to his fellow man. In Hong Kong you can live in a building that you
NEVER need to leave -- live, work, play, eat, whatever. I find that
idea horrifying, very close to living in a large coffin.

--
Cheers, Bev
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo
If it weren't for pain, we wouldn't have any fun at all.

In article >, weg9
@comcast.net says...


> Whenever you buy a house from someone else, you know at least one thing. The
> people you are buying it from want to sell it, and move somewhere else. Why,
> you may never know. So, you are taking a chance that whatever prompted them
> to leave may also prompt you to want to leave at some later time. The
> question is, is the reason an excuse for a lawsuit?

The introduction of excessive traffic and noise into my neighborhood
might be. Just because I don't like megachurches? That is probably not
sufficient reason to sue. Since we don't know why the current homeowners
are upset, it's impossible to answer your question in any specific
manner.


--
Steve Sobol - Programming/Web Dev/IT Support
Apple Valley, CA

The Real Bev > writes:

> On 12/27/10 12:38, Patrick Scheible wrote:
>
> > jgar the > writes:
> >
> >> Funny also how people would rather have a house in the 'burbs, if they
> >> possibly can.
> >
> > Actually, the big factor for most suburban dwellers is that you get a
> > bigger house for less money. That the same house would sell for more
> > in an urban area should tell you that most people would prefer living
> > in an urban area, other factors being equal.
>
> I doubt it. You forget that not everybody wants to live cheek-by-jowl
> to his fellow man. In Hong Kong you can live in a building that you
> NEVER need to leave -- live, work, play, eat, whatever. I find that
> idea horrifying, very close to living in a large coffin.

Not everyone, but enough to keep the value of that Hong Kong apartment
very high.

And in a less extreme example, enough to keep 2-bedroom bungaloes on
1/10 acre in the city more expensive than 4-bedroom tract houses on
1/5 acre in the suburbs.

-- Patrick

>> So what happens if you buy a new house in an expensive New Urban
>> walkable development, and you know there is a neighborhood church
>> going in down the street, and it turns out there was a secret
>> agreement between the church and the developer not to let buyers know
>> it's really a megachurch and your street turns into ground zero every
>> Sunday? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=liberty+station...ch+smoking+gun
>
>What exactly is the problem here?
>
>If I had to guess, I'd say excessive traffic and noise, but the TV
>station didn't say why the developers are being sued.

It could also be parking and complete block-in.

A church I attended where I used to live, hardly a "megachurch",
and one which had been around for decades, had some problems which
required re-paving about 3/4 of their parking lot (which wasn't in
very good shape anyway). This cut down on available parking
drastically for the next couple of months. Apparently they could
not finish half of the job, then start the other half. Part of the
reason might be that the city was pushing for them to fix it now.
Up until this point, the church had a reputation of being a fairly
good neighbor without a lot of noise or traffic complaints, and
their parking lot was large enough for all the cars of people
attending the service.

Shortly after that, there were complaints from neighbors that people
had parked in their yards and gardens, and one complaint that the
guy couldn't even walk out of his front or back doors without
climbing over a parked car on Sunday mornings. Other neighbors
could get their cars out of their driveway but not out of their
block because of parked cars blocking intersections. They couldn't
even get to their own church! There was one reported incident with
an ambulance having trouble getting through to the church itself.

A few dozen idiots were ruining it for those who actually did find
legal places to park along neighborhood streets, and who didn't cut
through people's yards to get to the church. The church leadership
was horrified.

I was aware of this because of repeated appeals in church services
not to block traffic or park on people's yards. Sometimes the
faithful don't practice what they preach. After a couple of weeks,
they decided to hold two shorter services instead of one normal-length
one, which spread the parking over more time. They still needed
the reminders and asked people to leave the service and move their
cars if necessary. People still had to park along streets. The
neighbors were still relieved when the parking lot was back in
service.

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 12/27/10 12:38, Patrick Scheible wrote:
>
>> jgar the > writes:
>>
>>> Funny also how people would rather have a house in the 'burbs, if
>>> they possibly can.
>>
>> Actually, the big factor for most suburban dwellers is that you get a
>> bigger house for less money. That the same house would sell for more
>> in an urban area should tell you that most people would prefer living
>> in an urban area, other factors being equal.
>
> I doubt it. You forget that not everybody wants to live cheek-by-jowl
> to his fellow man. In Hong Kong you can live in a building that you
> NEVER need to leave -- live, work, play, eat, whatever. I find that
> idea horrifying, very close to living in a large coffin.

There are people who live within a six block radius in cities like NYC for
their whole lives, and never learn English, or have to leave their "little
XXXX" or wherever. They have their own schools, churches, grocery stores,
and everything they need just like they were living in their own country.

Steve Sobol wrote:
> In article >, weg9
> @comcast.net says...
>
>
>> Whenever you buy a house from someone else, you know at least one
>> thing. The people you are buying it from want to sell it, and move
>> somewhere else. Why, you may never know. So, you are taking a chance
>> that whatever prompted them to leave may also prompt you to want to
>> leave at some later time. The question is, is the reason an excuse
>> for a lawsuit?
>
> The introduction of excessive traffic and noise into my neighborhood
> might be. Just because I don't like megachurches? That is probably not
> sufficient reason to sue. Since we don't know why the current
> homeowners are upset, it's impossible to answer your question in any
> specific manner.

Yes. If you want quiet, then live out in the country, and either commute to
work, or do as I did, and get a job out there also. More and more, there are
businesses who intentionally build their factories and offices out in nice
places to live, instead of in congested areas. I hated commuting, so I found
a job working for a large University out in the suburbs. I lived 6 miles
from the main gate for 10 years, and then moved to 1 mile from the main gate
for the last 15 years I worked there.

On Dec 28, 1:22*am, "Bill Graham" > wrote:
> Steve Sobol wrote:
> > In article >, weg9
> > @comcast.net says...
>
> >> Whenever you buy a house from someone else, you know at least one
> >> thing. The people you are buying it from want to sell it, and move
> >> somewhere else. Why, you may never know. So, you are taking a chance
> >> that whatever prompted them to leave may also prompt you to want to
> >> leave at some later time. The question is, is the reason an excuse
> >> for a lawsuit?

Understand, this was a new development, only some of the people were
buying from people who were going to move somewhere else, after owning
a short time (and before the church came).

Anyways, you bring up a good point - if you are buying a house, be
sure and walk by late Saturday night. You may hear why. :-)

>
> > The introduction of excessive traffic and noise into my neighborhood
> > might be. Just because I don't like megachurches? That is probably not
> > sufficient reason to sue. Since we don't know why the current
> > homeowners are upset, it's impossible to answer your question in any
> > specific manner.

Well, since I gave a google search instead of a list of specific
links, I can understand such a statement. But we do know why, the
developer and the church conspired to keep the known-only-to-them fact
of future excessive traffic and noise from people buying the houses,
which damaged the value of the houses. The "smoking gun" letter
simply makes it provable in court.

>
> Yes. If you want quiet, then live out in the country, and either commute to
> work, or do as I did, and get a job out there also. More and more, there are
> businesses who intentionally build their factories and offices out in nice
> places to live, instead of in congested areas. I hated commuting, so I found
> a job working for a large University out in the suburbs. I lived 6 miles
> from the main gate for 10 years, and then moved to 1 mile from the main gate
> for the last 15 years I worked there.

I gotta say, I grew up next to LAX, and I specifically moved out in
the country for quiet. But between roaming barking dogs, neighbors
with loud power tools and equipment who are up before the sun,
roosters too stupid to understand sunup, happy singing coyote death-
squads, audio-engineer stereo enthusiasts and so forth, it varies.
Other times, it is so quiet your head has to fill up the silence. "It
sure is quiet." "Yeah, a little _too_ quiet..."

It can be difficult to get a job in a particular place, too. I was
lucky enough to have a telecommuting job in the '80's, but wound up
commuting 90 miles each way anyways because that was isolating, before
internet/wifi. Since then, only about 6 years local work.
Frustrating, because I know there are local jobs I'd be perfect for,
but what can you do? So I benefit from the pay differential between
OC and SD, and take the train, except when it ****s up like last
Wednesday. In the past I've commuted, I've put over 200K each on 3
cars, and had a lot more cars.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
Another impossible parking job: http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=13749021
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...a-pursuit-cra/