fwd **** propagation

On 08/28/2013 08:27 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 8/28/2013 11:12 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 08/28/2013 07:56 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> On 8/28/2013 12:15 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>>> On 08/26/2013 06:56 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>> On 8/25/2013 10:39 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/25/2013 12:47 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 2:56 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>>>>> i don't hate the vehicle, i just happen to know their technical
>>>>>>>> background. but i do hate their marketing drivel. or more
>>>>>>>> accurately,
>>>>>>>> why some idiots buy into it - it's a total appeal to emotion
>>>>>>>> with no
>>>>>>>> technical justification whatsoever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Balls, just drive one. Or even read a road test of one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> uh, i have idiot. and i'm comparing it with other than impala or
>>>>>> jeep
>>>>>> which you apparently aren't qualified to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly you haven't, or are you implying that BMW is bribing the
>>>>> world's
>>>>> entire automotive press?
>>>>
>>>> absolutely - there's no technical justification for the fawning drivel
>>>> that adorns their toilet paper crown.
>>>
>>> You're right, it's all a vast conspiracy,
>>
>> no, it's simply paid advertising!
>>
>>
>>> spanning the last three
>>> decades. Rather than actually build cars people like to drive, BMW has
>>> just been sitting on the laurels that they earned with the 2002 and 3.0,
>>> and have been systematically paying off C&D, R&T, Autoweek, Motorweek,
>>> Car, Top Gear, Jalopnik, Fifth Gear, and every other automotive
>>> magazine, web site and TV program so that people will be tricked into
>>> buying their vehicles.
>>>
>>> You caught them.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, nobody ever test drives a car before buying it, otherwise
>>> they'd have gone out of business back around 1990 or so.
>>>
>>> nate
>>>
>>> (it's odd, there are days when I actually do want to blast BMW for some
>>> of their more idiotic design choices, but then JB jumps in and I find
>>> myself defending them all over again. Because the truth is, they're not
>>> perfect, but far from bad.)
>>
>> and for all your idiot defense, you've not been able to cite one single
>> example of technical advantage, you're just vaguely waving your arms
>> about in the breeze hoping to make your underinformed opinion not appear
>> so irrelevant.
>>
>>
>
> Well, how about they were one of the very first manufacturers to produce
> a mass-market direct injected gasoline engine? (modern era, that is - I
> know M-B did it back in the 50's)
>
> nate

direct injected???

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection#History>

you need to check your facts bucko. [as usual]


--
fact check required

On 08/28/2013 08:54 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 8/28/2013 11:44 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 8/28/2013 11:26 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> On 8/28/2013 11:05 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>>> On 08/28/2013 07:46 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>> On 8/27/2013 11:51 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/26/2013 07:00 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 10:42 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08/25/2013 04:34 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 7:15 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ask any automotive writer/critic if he'd rather have a BMW 3er
>>>>>>>>>>> or an
>>>>>>>>>>> Evo, assuming that he has to maintain it with his own money. I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> bet
>>>>>>>>>>> $100 that 9/10 if not 10/10 will pick the BMW. I'd venture that
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>> would be true of professional mechanics.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ummmmm. No. I don't know any tech that would rather maintain a
>>>>>>>>>> BMW
>>>>>>>>>> than a Mitsubishi, let alone with his own money.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> GW
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *shrug*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so give the guy his $100 then asshole.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? he just said he didn't know any tech. He might not know any
>>>>>>> techs
>>>>>>> at all. It's an opinion that he expressed, not a survey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so your $100 "bet" was just worthless blather and completely
>>>>>> meaningless? coming from you, that would be par for the course.
>>>>>
>>>>> Give me 10 names of techs and contact info who would prefer an Evo and
>>>>> I'll pay.
>>>>
>>>> sure, after you pay gw his $100.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Assertion is not proof, moron.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the mechanic that I tend to take everything I don't want to deal
>>>>>>>>> with myself (independent shop owner, not a dealer wrench)
>>>>>>>>> drives an
>>>>>>>>> E34
>>>>>>>>> most days.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> because he can afford to have someone else do it after charging you
>>>>>>>> idiot tax? [rhetorical]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually he makes very little money off of me. in the last two
>>>>>>> years I
>>>>>>> think he's done two A/C services and a couple state safety and
>>>>>>> emissions
>>>>>>> inspections for me, and he also mounted and balanced my winter
>>>>>>> tires. I
>>>>>>> did give him a set of aftermarket BMW wheels though that I had left
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> from a Craigslist deal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because he's a good wrench I recommend him to all my local friends
>>>>>>
>>>>>> translation: your mom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> they ask me where to take their car and I don't feel like/don't have
>>>>>>> time to work on their stuff myself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you don't work on your own stuff because you're useless, not because
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> don't have time. we know this for fact because of all the time you
>>>>>> waste here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Complete fabrication and BS. I've actually been quite busy working on
>>>>> some of my friends' vehicles lately, due to the economy sucking balls.
>>>>> They're all happy with my advice and work.
>>>>
>>>> bull****. you find infinite time to blather here, but you don't have 2
>>>> seconds to notice that hex wrench sets don't have 7mm's in them.
>>>> idiot.
>>>
>>>
>>> My set of 3/8" drive hex bits does, as evidenced by the fact that I
>>> didn't have to run out and buy any tools to change the brakes on my car.
>>>
>>> Pretty sure this is the set I have, it's S-K brand anyway:
>>>
>>> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/p-51...ool-19706.aspx
>>>
>>> took me all of 45 seconds to find it on the interwebs.
>>>
>>> nate
>>
>> the smaller S-K set p/n 19708 also includes the 7mm.
>>
>> I didn't look up any other manufacturers; S-K was the first one I tried.
>>
>> So apparently 7mm hex bits are not as obscure as you think.
>>
>> Oh, look, the Snappy set has a 7mm included too
>>
>> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
>>
>>
>>
>> so does Craftsman
>>
>> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-pc-...4&blockType=G4
>>
>>
>>
>> and Proto
>>
>> http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/industrial-tools/Proto/Hand-Sockets/Bit-Socket-Sets/J4900MA_Proto%C2%AE-3|8%22-%26-1|2%22-Drive-10-Piece-Metric-Hex-Bit-Set-/
>>
>>
>>
>> and Mac
>>
>> http://www.mactools.com/shoponline/p...river-set.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>> in fact, I'm having a hard time finding a set that *doesn't* include the
>> 7mm.
>>
>> You sure you're going to stand by that statement that they "don't come
>> with the 7mm?"
>>
>> nate
>
> After thinking about it for a bit, I thought that I had figured out
> where you were shopping for tools... but guess what? Harbor Freight's
> little "Pittsburgh" brand set also includes the 7mm!
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece...set-69546.html
>
>
> This is fun, but not really productive... I literally have not found a
> single set yet that doesn't include the 7mm however!
>
> I hope that at least I've helped you find the tools that you were having
> a hard time locating. I bet most of the manufacturers I listed above
> will also have a selection of 3/8" drive ratchets, breaker bars, and
> speed handles as well, if you were having a hard time finding those!
>
> nate

most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
buy these:

<http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>

and similar.

but no doubt you'll bleat and moan and try to say it's a typo and there
really is a 7mm in there, even though there isn't. just like there must
be an omission in this screw size table he

<http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Screws/cap_screws.htm>

and similar.

in the mean time, have you had any luck finding that marsden nut staking
tool you allege all manufacturers use?

idiot.


--
fact check required

On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:22:00 -0700, jim beam > wrote:


>
>most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
>buy these:
>
><http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>
>

Not sure that was fair, having Nate do all that work. I always call
them hex key, or Allen wrench.
Anyway, Harbor Freight replaces broken tools ala Craftsman, but maybe
better. My kid and others in his shop get some tools there instead of
from the Snap-on/Matco/Mac guys. Probably hurting those guys.
But it's hard to sell a 15 buck impact socket when you can get a
Pittsburgh that will last as long for a couple bucks.

On 8/28/2013 10:22 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/28/2013 08:54 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 8/28/2013 11:44 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> On 8/28/2013 11:26 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>> On 8/28/2013 11:05 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>> On 08/28/2013 07:46 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/27/2013 11:51 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/26/2013 07:00 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 10:42 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 08/25/2013 04:34 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 7:15 PM, Geoff Welsh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask any automotive writer/critic if he'd rather have a BMW 3er
>>>>>>>>>>>> or an
>>>>>>>>>>>> Evo, assuming that he has to maintain it with his own money.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> bet
>>>>>>>>>>>> $100 that 9/10 if not 10/10 will pick the BMW. I'd venture that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be true of professional mechanics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ummmmm. No. I don't know any tech that would rather maintain a
>>>>>>>>>>> BMW
>>>>>>>>>>> than a Mitsubishi, let alone with his own money.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> GW
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *shrug*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so give the guy his $100 then asshole.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? he just said he didn't know any tech. He might not know any
>>>>>>>> techs
>>>>>>>> at all. It's an opinion that he expressed, not a survey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so your $100 "bet" was just worthless blather and completely
>>>>>>> meaningless? coming from you, that would be par for the course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Give me 10 names of techs and contact info who would prefer an Evo
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> I'll pay.
>>>>>
>>>>> sure, after you pay gw his $100.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assertion is not proof, moron.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the mechanic that I tend to take everything I don't want to deal
>>>>>>>>>> with myself (independent shop owner, not a dealer wrench)
>>>>>>>>>> drives an
>>>>>>>>>> E34
>>>>>>>>>> most days.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> because he can afford to have someone else do it after charging
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> idiot tax? [rhetorical]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually he makes very little money off of me. in the last two
>>>>>>>> years I
>>>>>>>> think he's done two A/C services and a couple state safety and
>>>>>>>> emissions
>>>>>>>> inspections for me, and he also mounted and balanced my winter
>>>>>>>> tires. I
>>>>>>>> did give him a set of aftermarket BMW wheels though that I had left
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> from a Craigslist deal.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because he's a good wrench I recommend him to all my local friends
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> translation: your mom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> they ask me where to take their car and I don't feel like/don't
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> time to work on their stuff myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you don't work on your own stuff because you're useless, not because
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> don't have time. we know this for fact because of all the time you
>>>>>>> waste here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Complete fabrication and BS. I've actually been quite busy
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>> some of my friends' vehicles lately, due to the economy sucking
>>>>>> balls.
>>>>>> They're all happy with my advice and work.
>>>>>
>>>>> bull****. you find infinite time to blather here, but you don't
>>>>> have 2
>>>>> seconds to notice that hex wrench sets don't have 7mm's in them.
>>>>> idiot.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My set of 3/8" drive hex bits does, as evidenced by the fact that I
>>>> didn't have to run out and buy any tools to change the brakes on my
>>>> car.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty sure this is the set I have, it's S-K brand anyway:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/p-51...ool-19706.aspx
>>>>
>>>> took me all of 45 seconds to find it on the interwebs.
>>>>
>>>> nate
>>>
>>> the smaller S-K set p/n 19708 also includes the 7mm.
>>>
>>> I didn't look up any other manufacturers; S-K was the first one I tried.
>>>
>>> So apparently 7mm hex bits are not as obscure as you think.
>>>
>>> Oh, look, the Snappy set has a 7mm included too
>>>
>>> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> so does Craftsman
>>>
>>> http://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-pc-...4&blockType=G4
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and Proto
>>>
>>> http://www.protoindustrial.com/en/industrial-tools/Proto/Hand-Sockets/Bit-Socket-Sets/J4900MA_Proto%C2%AE-3|8%22-%26-1|2%22-Drive-10-Piece-Metric-Hex-Bit-Set-/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and Mac
>>>
>>> http://www.mactools.com/shoponline/p...river-set.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> in fact, I'm having a hard time finding a set that *doesn't* include the
>>> 7mm.
>>>
>>> You sure you're going to stand by that statement that they "don't come
>>> with the 7mm?"
>>>
>>> nate
>>
>> After thinking about it for a bit, I thought that I had figured out
>> where you were shopping for tools... but guess what? Harbor Freight's
>> little "Pittsburgh" brand set also includes the 7mm!
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece...set-69546.html
>>
>>
>>
>> This is fun, but not really productive... I literally have not found a
>> single set yet that doesn't include the 7mm however!
>>
>> I hope that at least I've helped you find the tools that you were having
>> a hard time locating. I bet most of the manufacturers I listed above
>> will also have a selection of 3/8" drive ratchets, breaker bars, and
>> speed handles as well, if you were having a hard time finding those!
>>
>> nate
>
> most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
> buy these:
>
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>

Then most people aren't buying the right tools for the job, then.

I could shave with a pocketknife, too, but a razor works so much better.

nate

> > The Mini and the first generation Civic are the same basic concept -

and yet the execution is vastly different.
not that I endorse speedometer in the middle of nowhere
but the cage, the cage rigidity should instill some high tensile
steel envy in russians

> > note that eventually everyone followed suit, with compact, RWD economy
>
> > cars becoming practically extinct within a decade.
>
> The Smart is a compact RWD, but also rear-engine.
>
> So I suppose it kind of like a FWD thats arse-about-tit.

smart is hardly an econobox

On 08/29/2013 03:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 8/28/2013 10:22 PM, jim beam wrote:
<snip usual crap>
>> most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
>> buy these:
>>
>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>
>>
>
> Then most people aren't buying the right tools for the job, then.

au contraire, dip****. you obviously failed to observe the ball end on
those wrenches and, more importantly, have clearly never used them. any
real wrench used to working in restricted [i.e. real world] spaces knows
that ball socket wrenches are invaluable.

but the more important point, the one that you carefully snipped from
that long driveling thread, was the iso cap screw size table. there is
no 7mm iso cap screw size. nor is there a 7mm din cap screw size.
bmw's selection of a non-iso/din size is deliberate obfuscation and if
you had the merest grain-fraction of integrity, you'd acknowledge that
rather than "accidentally" snip it and try to ignore.


>
> I could shave with a pocketknife, too, but a razor works so much better.

you couldn't shave with any pocket knife you own nate. either way around.


--
fact check required

On 08/29/2013 12:08 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2013 19:22:00 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
>> buy these:
>>
>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>
>>
>
> Not sure that was fair, having Nate do all that work. I always call
> them hex key, or Allen wrench.
> Anyway, Harbor Freight replaces broken tools ala Craftsman, but maybe
> better. My kid and others in his shop get some tools there instead of
> from the Snap-on/Matco/Mac guys. Probably hurting those guys.
> But it's hard to sell a 15 buck impact socket when you can get a
> Pittsburgh that will last as long for a couple bucks.

i won't buy cheap chinese junk tools - wear and resultant damage aside,
their inferior materials quality significantly increase injury risk.
young lads may not care much about that, or may not have learned yet,
but it's important. especially for older farts who don't heal so fast.
$13 is girt cheap insurance compared to a severed finger tendon that
requires retrieval from half way up your arm.


--
fact check required

On 8/29/2013 10:09 AM, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/29/2013 03:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 8/28/2013 10:22 PM, jim beam wrote:
> <snip usual crap>
>>> most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
>>> buy these:
>>>
>>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Then most people aren't buying the right tools for the job, then.
>
> au contraire, dip****. you obviously failed to observe the ball end on
> those wrenches and, more importantly, have clearly never used them. any
> real wrench used to working in restricted [i.e. real world] spaces knows
> that ball socket wrenches are invaluable.

Anyone who's actually worked on a car before knows that if you use a
regular "allen wrench" (bent hex shaped piece of metal, not a socket) to
try to unscrew slider pins on a car that's more than a few years old, it
generally won't work unless you have the arms of a gorilla or you use a
box wrench on the end of it for more leverage (and then when you really
reef on it you better have it lined up square so you don't punch the
fender lip.) Or you could just spend $20-30 and get the right tools for
the job. Clearly mfgrs. of the hex bit socket sets have recognized that
7mm is a common size for automotive use whether you like it or not. Are
you really going to posit that someone who would buy a car that sells
for over $10K used and is changing his own brakes is going to cheap out
and not spend $30 at Sears to get the right tools, assuming he doesn't
already have them? I have a name for someone like that, it's "dumbass"!
Again, they're not hard to find - if you know the general type of tool
you need, and buy a small set of them from any reputable tool
manufacturer, you're going to have the right tool.

Do you also bitch about having to have a special tool to wind back the
pistons in a GM or Ford rear caliper with integral parking brake too?
(well, I could kind of see that, I whined a little when I had to buy
one.) Hint: you don't have to do that with a BMW, a simple pad spreader
works fine, or even one of the old brake pads and a C-clamp if you don't
have one.

Auto repair requires special tools occasionally, but this seems like an
awful minute and irrelevant example of something to get worked up over.

> but the more important point, the one that you carefully snipped from
> that long driveling thread, was the iso cap screw size table. there is
> no 7mm iso cap screw size. nor is there a 7mm din cap screw size. bmw's
> selection of a non-iso/din size is deliberate obfuscation and if you had
> the merest grain-fraction of integrity, you'd acknowledge that rather
> than "accidentally" snip it and try to ignore.

Now if you'd stated it that way, rather than "it doesn't come in the
set," I'd have seen your point, such that it is. But even so, if you're
going to dope-slap BMW for that then you'd better stop by Dearborn,
Detroit, Trollhattan, Wolfsburg, and a couple other places as well
because 7mm and 9mm are very common hex sizes for slider pins on lots of
newer cars, not all or even most of them from Munich.

If I had to guess, I would venture that that design you hate so much
originated with a common supplier of brake parts, probably Teves/ATE,
who likely make both the floating caliper and also the carrier that in
turn bolts to the knuckle. So if you wanna yell at someone, yell at
them - but at this point it's fait accompli, everyone's using them now.

>>
>> I could shave with a pocketknife, too, but a razor works so much better.
>
> you couldn't shave with any pocket knife you own nate. either way around.
>

I certainly wouldn't *want* to, wouldn't want to mess up this pretty face.

nate

On 8/28/2013 10:21 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 08/28/2013 08:27 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 8/28/2013 11:12 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>> On 08/28/2013 07:56 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>> On 8/28/2013 12:15 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>> On 08/26/2013 06:56 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 10:39 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08/25/2013 12:47 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 2:56 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i don't hate the vehicle, i just happen to know their technical
>>>>>>>>> background. but i do hate their marketing drivel. or more
>>>>>>>>> accurately,
>>>>>>>>> why some idiots buy into it - it's a total appeal to emotion
>>>>>>>>> with no
>>>>>>>>> technical justification whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Balls, just drive one. Or even read a road test of one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> uh, i have idiot. and i'm comparing it with other than impala or
>>>>>>> jeep
>>>>>>> which you apparently aren't qualified to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Clearly you haven't, or are you implying that BMW is bribing the
>>>>>> world's
>>>>>> entire automotive press?
>>>>>
>>>>> absolutely - there's no technical justification for the fawning drivel
>>>>> that adorns their toilet paper crown.
>>>>
>>>> You're right, it's all a vast conspiracy,
>>>
>>> no, it's simply paid advertising!
>>>
>>>
>>>> spanning the last three
>>>> decades. Rather than actually build cars people like to drive, BMW has
>>>> just been sitting on the laurels that they earned with the 2002 and
>>>> 3.0,
>>>> and have been systematically paying off C&D, R&T, Autoweek, Motorweek,
>>>> Car, Top Gear, Jalopnik, Fifth Gear, and every other automotive
>>>> magazine, web site and TV program so that people will be tricked into
>>>> buying their vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> You caught them.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, nobody ever test drives a car before buying it, otherwise
>>>> they'd have gone out of business back around 1990 or so.
>>>>
>>>> nate
>>>>
>>>> (it's odd, there are days when I actually do want to blast BMW for some
>>>> of their more idiotic design choices, but then JB jumps in and I find
>>>> myself defending them all over again. Because the truth is, they're
>>>> not
>>>> perfect, but far from bad.)
>>>
>>> and for all your idiot defense, you've not been able to cite one single
>>> example of technical advantage, you're just vaguely waving your arms
>>> about in the breeze hoping to make your underinformed opinion not appear
>>> so irrelevant.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well, how about they were one of the very first manufacturers to produce
>> a mass-market direct injected gasoline engine? (modern era, that is - I
>> know M-B did it back in the 50's)
>>
>> nate
>
> direct injected???
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection#History>
>
> you need to check your facts bucko. [as usual]
>

Not really... per your own reference it looks like Isuzu brought it to
the US in 2004, Toyota brought it to the US in 2005, whereas BMW had the
N73 V-12 in 2003 (OK, so that's not mass market, only used in 7er and
RR) and the N54 straight six in 2006 (which they put in the 1er, 3er,
5er, Z4, and various X-things, so that sounds mass market to me) Also
not mentioned is the BMW N63 V-8 which is also direct injected. The
article doesn't say, but I believe Mitsu finally brought it over
somewhere around the same timeframe, but I'm not sure exactly what year.

I didn't say that they were the very first, but sounds like they got it
here early enough it's hard to say that they were copying anyone else.
If nothing else, now that the M3 is no more, I'm pretty sure that their
entire gasoline engine lineup is direct injected.

nate

On 08/29/2013 09:21 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 8/29/2013 10:09 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 08/29/2013 03:40 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> On 8/28/2013 10:22 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> <snip usual crap>
>>>> most people don't go out and buy "socket" hex tools wisenheimer, they
>>>> buy these:
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hex-wrenches/13-piece-metric-ball-end-hex-key-set-96416.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Then most people aren't buying the right tools for the job, then.
>>
>> au contraire, dip****. you obviously failed to observe the ball end on
>> those wrenches and, more importantly, have clearly never used them. any
>> real wrench used to working in restricted [i.e. real world] spaces knows
>> that ball socket wrenches are invaluable.
>
> Anyone who's actually worked on a car before knows that if you use a
> regular "allen wrench" (bent hex shaped piece of metal, not a socket) to
> try to unscrew slider pins on a car that's more than a few years old, it
> generally won't work unless you have the arms of a gorilla or you use a
> box wrench on the end of it for more leverage (and then when you really
> reef on it you better have it lined up square so you don't punch the
> fender lip.)

1. anyone who's actually worked on a car before knows that the caliper
slider pin torque is really low.

2. anyone who's actually worked on a car before knows that the offset
distance determines the deviation from "square" - most allen wrenches
have a shallower offset than sockets, and certainly so in the 7mm size
range.

3. anyone who's actually worked on a car before knows that they should
be applying leverage such that slippage or breakage /doesn't/ cause
injury. just like working under a car without wedging the tires and
using axle stands.


> Or you could just spend $20-30 and get the right tools for
> the job. Clearly mfgrs. of the hex bit socket sets have recognized that
> 7mm is a common size for automotive use whether you like it or not. Are
> you really going to posit that someone who would buy a car that sells
> for over $10K used and is changing his own brakes is going to cheap out
> and not spend $30 at Sears to get the right tools, assuming he doesn't
> already have them? I have a name for someone like that, it's "dumbass"!
> Again, they're not hard to find - if you know the general type of tool
> you need, and buy a small set of them from any reputable tool
> manufacturer, you're going to have the right tool.

i don't know why you'd ever buy a tool - you clearly never use them.


>
> Do you also bitch about having to have a special tool to wind back the
> pistons in a GM or Ford rear caliper with integral parking brake too?
> (well, I could kind of see that, I whined a little when I had to buy
> one.) Hint: you don't have to do that with a BMW, a simple pad spreader
> works fine, or even one of the old brake pads and a C-clamp if you don't
> have one.

just use a freakin' screw driver - you don't need a "special tool", you
have more than 90° swing available for the wind-ins, and you just use
the screwdriver as a lever in the front slot against the disk of the
press-ins..


>
> Auto repair requires special tools occasionally, but this seems like an
> awful minute and irrelevant example of something to get worked up over.

7mm /is/ a special tool - it's neither iso nor din.


>
>> but the more important point, the one that you carefully snipped from
>> that long driveling thread, was the iso cap screw size table. there is
>> no 7mm iso cap screw size. nor is there a 7mm din cap screw size. bmw's
>> selection of a non-iso/din size is deliberate obfuscation and if you had
>> the merest grain-fraction of integrity, you'd acknowledge that rather
>> than "accidentally" snip it and try to ignore.
>
> Now if you'd stated it that way, rather than "it doesn't come in the
> set," I'd have seen your point, such that it is. But even so, if you're
> going to dope-slap BMW for that then you'd better stop by Dearborn,
> Detroit, Trollhattan, Wolfsburg, and a couple other places as well
> because 7mm and 9mm are very common hex sizes for slider pins on lots of
> newer cars, not all or even most of them from Munich.
>
> If I had to guess, I would venture that that design you hate so much
> originated with a common supplier of brake parts, probably Teves/ATE,
> who likely make both the floating caliper and also the carrier that in
> turn bolts to the knuckle. So if you wanna yell at someone, yell at
> them - but at this point it's fait accompli, everyone's using them now.

"everyone"????????????? are you ///really/// that spectacularly
amazingly retarded? [rhetorical]


>
>>>
>>> I could shave with a pocketknife, too, but a razor works so much better.
>>
>> you couldn't shave with any pocket knife you own nate. either way
>> around.
>>
>
> I certainly wouldn't *want* to, wouldn't want to mess up this pretty face.

oh boy, i almost can't resist having too much fun with that priceless
idiocy!


--
fact check required