HELP: 93 Toyota Corolla vibration problem!

> wrote:
>NEW SYMPTOMS:
>
>I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were
>under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration
>still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>
>1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
>temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
>the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch.

Sounds like a brake problem.

>2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.

Sounds like a brake problem.

>3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
>vibration.

>4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
>using the brakes. I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
>brakes for 30 miles and it still started.

Does lightly tapping on the brakes stop it?

>Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
>has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. It may be
>locking up somehow. But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
>starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away...
>ie the brakes unlock. The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
>there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?

That sure sounds like it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Apr 17, 10:52 am, Mike Romain > wrote:
SOME DARN GOOD ADVICE

Thanks mike!! I will try that stuff today before I bring it into the
mechanic to try and diagnose if it is the wheel bearing or the hose.
He did mention that it is probably the hose. But I will tell him
about the wheel bearing test that you suggested. Great Advice!
Thanks.

> wrote in message
...
> NEW SYMPTOMS:
>
> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were
> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration
> still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>
> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
> temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
> the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch.
>
> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.


Here is what you should do. Have all 4 wheels dynamically balanced off the
car. Be sure to watch closely for any wheel that seems to wobble on the
machine. IF it runs true - then have a dynamic balance done ON the car. See
if the wobble appears. If it runs true on the dynamic balance off the car
but there is a wobble ON the car then you may have some bad wheel bearings.
Start with that right front. Look at the rotor for discoloration.

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote:
>>NEW SYMPTOMS:
>>
>>I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were
>>under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration
>>still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>>
>>1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
>>temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
>>the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch.
>
> Sounds like a brake problem.

Sounds more like a BENT wheel.

> wrote in message
...
> NEW SYMPTOMS:
>
> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were
> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration
> still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>
> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
> temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
> the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch.
>
> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.
>
> 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
> vibration.
>
> 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
> using the brakes. I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
> brakes for 30 miles and it still started.
>
> Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
> has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. It may be
> locking up somehow. But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
> starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away...
> ie the brakes unlock. The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
> there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?
>
> Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> -Jon
>

Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
brakes.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
...

>> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were
>> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration
>> still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>>
>> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
>> temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
>> the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch.
>>
>> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.
>>
>> 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
>> vibration.
>>
>> 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
>> using the brakes. I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
>> brakes for 30 miles and it still started.
>>
>> Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
>> has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. It may be
>> locking up somehow. But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
>> starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away...
>> ie the brakes unlock. The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
>> there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?
>>
>> Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>
> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
> brakes.

That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
system. Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. The wheel needs a
dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is running. On the
older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent. I'd start
there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel bearings. We
could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels. A close inspection of
the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how many miles are on the
car (generally we can assume over 100,000) at this age as a minimum - you
have all sorts of culprits along the way as possibles. Maybe even
combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the
most likely first.

1. Bent wheel.
2. Bad wheel balance.
3. Bad bearing.
4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla)

The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the
rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody should
be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it is
turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor heats
up it tends to go our of round.

Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
would look for the most likely things first. You MAY wind up with a bad
brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell
about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
unlikely.

You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
Especially the store where you bought the tires.

On Apr 18, 3:48*am, " krp" > wrote:
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. *they were
> >> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. *However, the vibration
> >> still persisted. *The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>
> >> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
> >> temperature of the steel wheels. *The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
> >> the touch and will burn you. *the rest are cool to the touch.
>
> >> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.
>
> >> 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
> >> vibration.
>
> >> 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
> >> using the brakes. *I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
> >> brakes for 30 miles and it still started.
>
> >> Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
> >> has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. *It may be
> >> locking up somehow. *But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
> >> starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away...
> >> ie the brakes unlock. *The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
> >> there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?
>
> >> Any help or insight would be appreciated. *Thanks.
>
> >> -Jon
>
> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
> > brakes.
>
> * * That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
> system. Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old..
> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. The wheel needs a
> dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is running. On the
> older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent. I'd start
> there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel bearings. We
> could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels. A close inspection of
> the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how many miles are on the
> car (generally we can assume over 100,000) at this age as a minimum - you
> have all sorts of culprits along the way as possibles. Maybe even
> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the
> most likely first.
>
> 1. Bent wheel.
> 2. Bad wheel balance.
> 3. Bad bearing.
> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla)
>
> * * The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the
> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody should
> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it is
> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor heats
> up it tends to go our of round.
>
> * * Look at the most likely *first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
> would look for the most likely things first. You MAY wind up with a bad
> brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell
> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
> unlikely.
>
> * * You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF *the car for free.
> Especially the store where you bought the tires.- Hide quoted text -

I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms
posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to
warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor
before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose
is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been
toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain
that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly.

nate

" krp" > wrote in message
news:LnYNj.48533$tw3.16015@trnddc03...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. they were
>>> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. However, the vibration
>>> still persisted. The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>>>
>>> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
>>> temperature of the steel wheels. The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
>>> the touch and will burn you. the rest are cool to the touch.
>>>
>>> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.
>>>
>>> 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
>>> vibration.
>>>
>>> 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
>>> using the brakes. I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
>>> brakes for 30 miles and it still started.
>>>
>>> Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
>>> has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. It may be
>>> locking up somehow. But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
>>> starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away...
>>> ie the brakes unlock. The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
>>> there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?
>>>
>>> Any help or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>
>> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
>> brakes.
>
> That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
> system. Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years
> old. Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. The wheel
> needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is
> running. On the older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become
> bent. I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad
> wheel bearings. We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels. A
> close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how
> many miles are on the car (generally we can assume over 100,000) at this
> age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way as
> possibles. Maybe even combinations. That's without getting to any
> suspension parts. Look at the most likely first.
>
> 1. Bent wheel.
> 2. Bad wheel balance.
> 3. Bad bearing.
> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla)
>
> The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the
> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody
> should be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor
> when it is turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK
> rotor heats up it tends to go our of round.
>
> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
> would look for the most likely things first. You MAY wind up with a bad
> brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell
> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
> unlikely.
>
> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
> Especially the store where you bought the tires.
>
I already suggested, and the OP checked, most of the stuff you listed. Most
tire shops around here use dynamic balancers, and some even have Hunter's
new Road Force dynamic balancer.

The problem I've seen on some old brake hoses is not hardening, but a
deterioration of the lining. The lining flakes off and blocks the line so
when the pedal is released, residual pressure keeps the caliper piston from
releasing.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On Apr 18, 10:19*am, N8N > wrote:
> On Apr 18, 3:48*am, " krp" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > >> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. *they were
> > >> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. *However, the vibration
> > >> still persisted. *The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>
> > >> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
> > >> temperature of the steel wheels. *The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
> > >> the touch and will burn you. *the rest are cool to the touch.
>
> > >> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.
>
> > >> 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
> > >> vibration.
>
> > >> 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
> > >> using the brakes. *I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
> > >> brakes for 30 miles and it still started.
>
> > >> Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
> > >> has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. *It may be
> > >> locking up somehow. *But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
> > >> starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away....
> > >> ie the brakes unlock. *The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
> > >> there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?
>
> > >> Any help or insight would be appreciated. *Thanks.
>
> > >> -Jon
>
> > > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
> > > brakes.
>
> > * * That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
> > system. Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
> > Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest. The wheel needs a
> > dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is running. On the
> > older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent. I'd start
> > there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel bearings. We
> > could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels. A close inspection of
> > the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how many miles are on the
> > car (generally we can assume over 100,000) at this age as a minimum - you
> > have all sorts of culprits along the way as possibles. Maybe even
> > combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the
> > most likely first.
>
> > 1. Bent wheel.
> > 2. Bad wheel balance.
> > 3. Bad bearing.
> > 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
> > 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla)
>
> > * * The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
> > reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the
> > rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
> > cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody should
> > be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it is
> > turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor heats
> > up it tends to go our of round.
>
> > * * Look at the most likely *first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
> > far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
> > would look for the most likely things first. You MAY wind up with a bad
> > brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell
> > about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
> > collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
> > unlikely.
>
> > * * You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
> > Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF *the car for free.
> > Especially the store where you bought the tires.- Hide quoted text -
>
> I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms
> posted. *Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to
> warp. *So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor
> before the problem is solved. *I say caliper because even if the hose
> is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been
> toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain
> that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly.
>
> nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree, I had this happen, if the brakes drag, after driving on the
highway, the rotor will overheat and warp and cause a vibration due to
the brakes dragging on a warped rotor..

fix the dragging brake and you'll also get better gas milage.

Mark

On Apr 18, 2:48*am, " krp" > wrote:


>
> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
> > brakes.
>
> * * That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
> system.

Which region(s) are you basing this data on? Static balancing would
yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what
reputable shop relies on this method anymore?

> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest.

What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what
their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What
changed about this in 1998?

> The wheel needs a
> dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it is running. On the
> older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent.

Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely.

> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel bearings.

I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel
bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla?

> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels,

Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)?
Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what
will they think of next?!

> A close inspection of
> the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how many miles are on the
> car (generally we can assume over 100,000)

Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who
would doubt your clairvoyance?

> at this age as a minimum - you
> have all sorts of culprits along the way as possibles. Maybe even
> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the
> most likely first.
>
> 1. Bent wheel.
> 2. Bad wheel balance.
> 3. Bad bearing.
> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla)
>
> * * The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the
> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody should
> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it is
> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor heats
> up it tends to go our of round.

After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still exists.
Hmmmmmmmmm...

> * * Look at the most likely *first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
> would look for the most likely things first.

Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest. That
doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one
side.

> You MAY wind up with a bad
> brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell
> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
> unlikely.

Let's copmpletely discount it then.

> * * You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF *the car for free.

You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do.

> Especially the store where you bought the tires.

All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic.

Toyota MDT in MO