Help. rebuilt inner CV joint, A2. Joint won't swivel now

Hi,
I'm replacing the outer CV joint and boot on an '85 Golf. At the same
time, I've disassembled and cleaned the inner CV joint to put in new
grease and a new inner boot. However, on putting the ball bearings
into and assembling the inner CV joint, the joint now won't swivel,
it's locked up. I've followed Bentley and have the widely spaced
grooves on the (outer) housing aligned with the widely spaced grooves
on the inner hub. The hub remains pressed onto the axle shaft, The
outer housing is on the right way as the metal flange on the boot
slips on the back correctly and tightly.The cage hasn't come off the
hub either so on chance it's on backwards.

Others in this newsgroup have mentioned this problem and mentioned
making sure the parts are aligned. I've tripled checked the alignment
of the parts.

The other question is in placing the ball bearings back in, do I
press them into the carrier cage or do the bearings sit on the outside
(held temporarily by the grease until I swivel the whole thing
together when I place the last ball? I've tried placing the balls on
the outside of the carrier and also pressing them into the carrier.
But either way, the balls don't seem to turn freely when I try to
swivel the assembled joint, they seemed jammed in the cage openings.
The cage openings don't look like the perfect oval openings as shown
in Bentley. The openings in my cage are ovals with smallish tabs on
either side of the long edges. The balls have to be pressed through
the openings with some force (a thumb).

I initially marked the balls but the 6 balls are hopelessly mixed up
now, if that makes any difference. The cage looks symmetrical all the
way around, so doesn't seem to be an alignment issue there and Bentley
doesn't mention any alignment necessary with the cage.

Would really appreciate any tips on what I'm doing wrong here.

-Tony

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:31:14 -0000, tonyw > wrote:

>Hi,
> I'm replacing the outer CV joint and boot on an '85 Golf. At the same
>time, I've disassembled and cleaned the inner CV joint to put in new
>grease and a new inner boot. However, on putting the ball bearings
>into and assembling the inner CV joint, the joint now won't swivel,
>it's locked up. I've followed Bentley and have the widely spaced
>grooves on the (outer) housing aligned with the widely spaced grooves
>on the inner hub. The hub remains pressed onto the axle shaft, The
>outer housing is on the right way as the metal flange on the boot
>slips on the back correctly and tightly.The cage hasn't come off the
>hub either so on chance it's on backwards.
>
> Others in this newsgroup have mentioned this problem and mentioned
>making sure the parts are aligned. I've tripled checked the alignment
>of the parts.
>
> The other question is in placing the ball bearings back in, do I
>press them into the carrier cage or do the bearings sit on the outside
>(held temporarily by the grease until I swivel the whole thing
>together when I place the last ball? I've tried placing the balls on
>the outside of the carrier and also pressing them into the carrier.
>But either way, the balls don't seem to turn freely when I try to
>swivel the assembled joint, they seemed jammed in the cage openings.
>The cage openings don't look like the perfect oval openings as shown
>in Bentley. The openings in my cage are ovals with smallish tabs on
>either side of the long edges. The balls have to be pressed through
>the openings with some force (a thumb).
>
> I initially marked the balls but the 6 balls are hopelessly mixed up
>now, if that makes any difference. The cage looks symmetrical all the
>way around, so doesn't seem to be an alignment issue there and Bentley
>doesn't mention any alignment necessary with the cage.
>
> Would really appreciate any tips on what I'm doing wrong here.
>
>-Tony
I have assembled those joints more than once unsuccessfully. It
sometimes takes me 2 or 3 tries to get it right. I believe the key is
to assemble dry. Grease after you have it together and confirmed that
it will work. Isn't it small to big and big to small? If I recall I
get two opposing balls installed and check the function of the joint.
Then I added a ball one at a time. Eventually I get all 6 balls in and
the joint will be locked up tight. Then I try again looking at the
diagram in the Bentley. Once again it is easier when dry. Easy defined
as your hand are not all messy wondering why humans are built with two
hands and arms when you are dong a three armed job.

Jim Behning wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:31:14 -0000, tonyw > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm replacing the outer CV joint and boot on an '85 Golf. At the same
>> time, I've disassembled and cleaned the inner CV joint to put in new
>> grease and a new inner boot. However, on putting the ball bearings
>> into and assembling the inner CV joint, the joint now won't swivel,
>> it's locked up. I've followed Bentley and have the widely spaced
>> grooves on the (outer) housing aligned with the widely spaced grooves
>> on the inner hub. The hub remains pressed onto the axle shaft, The
>> outer housing is on the right way as the metal flange on the boot
>> slips on the back correctly and tightly.The cage hasn't come off the
>> hub either so on chance it's on backwards.
>>
>> Others in this newsgroup have mentioned this problem and mentioned
>> making sure the parts are aligned. I've tripled checked the alignment
>> of the parts.
>>
>> The other question is in placing the ball bearings back in, do I
>> press them into the carrier cage or do the bearings sit on the outside
>> (held temporarily by the grease until I swivel the whole thing
>> together when I place the last ball? I've tried placing the balls on
>> the outside of the carrier and also pressing them into the carrier.
>> But either way, the balls don't seem to turn freely when I try to
>> swivel the assembled joint, they seemed jammed in the cage openings.
>> The cage openings don't look like the perfect oval openings as shown
>> in Bentley. The openings in my cage are ovals with smallish tabs on
>> either side of the long edges. The balls have to be pressed through
>> the openings with some force (a thumb).
>>
>> I initially marked the balls but the 6 balls are hopelessly mixed up
>> now, if that makes any difference. The cage looks symmetrical all the
>> way around, so doesn't seem to be an alignment issue there and Bentley
>> doesn't mention any alignment necessary with the cage.
>>
>> Would really appreciate any tips on what I'm doing wrong here.
>>
>> -Tony
> I have assembled those joints more than once unsuccessfully. It
> sometimes takes me 2 or 3 tries to get it right. I believe the key is
> to assemble dry. Grease after you have it together and confirmed that
> it will work. Isn't it small to big and big to small? If I recall I
> get two opposing balls installed and check the function of the joint.
> Then I added a ball one at a time. Eventually I get all 6 balls in and
> the joint will be locked up tight. Then I try again looking at the
> diagram in the Bentley. Once again it is easier when dry. Easy defined
> as your hand are not all messy wondering why humans are built with two
> hands and arms when you are dong a three armed job.
Like Jim said - there is a wrong way to assemble them - they just lock !

take it apart and turn it one groove and put it back together .

you have a 50 50 chance of getting it right !

Rich

YEP!


"Tricky" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Behning wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:31:14 -0000, tonyw > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm replacing the outer CV joint and boot on an '85 Golf. At the same
>>> time, I've disassembled and cleaned the inner CV joint to put in new
>>> grease and a new inner boot. However, on putting the ball bearings
>>> into and assembling the inner CV joint, the joint now won't swivel,
>>> it's locked up. I've followed Bentley and have the widely spaced
>>> grooves on the (outer) housing aligned with the widely spaced grooves
>>> on the inner hub. The hub remains pressed onto the axle shaft, The
>>> outer housing is on the right way as the metal flange on the boot
>>> slips on the back correctly and tightly.The cage hasn't come off the
>>> hub either so on chance it's on backwards.
>>>
>>> Others in this newsgroup have mentioned this problem and mentioned
>>> making sure the parts are aligned. I've tripled checked the alignment
>>> of the parts.
>>>
>>> The other question is in placing the ball bearings back in, do I
>>> press them into the carrier cage or do the bearings sit on the outside
>>> (held temporarily by the grease until I swivel the whole thing
>>> together when I place the last ball? I've tried placing the balls on
>>> the outside of the carrier and also pressing them into the carrier.
>>> But either way, the balls don't seem to turn freely when I try to
>>> swivel the assembled joint, they seemed jammed in the cage openings.
>>> The cage openings don't look like the perfect oval openings as shown
>>> in Bentley. The openings in my cage are ovals with smallish tabs on
>>> either side of the long edges. The balls have to be pressed through
>>> the openings with some force (a thumb).
>>>
>>> I initially marked the balls but the 6 balls are hopelessly mixed up
>>> now, if that makes any difference. The cage looks symmetrical all the
>>> way around, so doesn't seem to be an alignment issue there and Bentley
>>> doesn't mention any alignment necessary with the cage.
>>>
>>> Would really appreciate any tips on what I'm doing wrong here.
>>>
>>> -Tony
>> I have assembled those joints more than once unsuccessfully. It
>> sometimes takes me 2 or 3 tries to get it right. I believe the key is
>> to assemble dry. Grease after you have it together and confirmed that
>> it will work. Isn't it small to big and big to small? If I recall I
>> get two opposing balls installed and check the function of the joint.
>> Then I added a ball one at a time. Eventually I get all 6 balls in and
>> the joint will be locked up tight. Then I try again looking at the
>> diagram in the Bentley. Once again it is easier when dry. Easy defined
>> as your hand are not all messy wondering why humans are built with two
>> hands and arms when you are dong a three armed job.
> Like Jim said - there is a wrong way to assemble them - they just lock !
>
> take it apart and turn it one groove and put it back together .
>
> you have a 50 50 chance of getting it right !
>
> Rich

Hi,
Thanks for the encouragement. I tried again and you were right,
shift one notch over and it worked. But the end result is different
from Bentley, I now have widely spaced grooves lined up with narrowly
spaced grooves. That's when looking at it from the end of the shaft
(the end facing tranny). I don't think Bentley is wrong, it may be
their directions are with the hub pressed off the shaft and perhaps
Bentley's frame of reference is from the outboard side of the cv joint
whereas I was working from the inboard side. Anyways, anybody re-
assembling with the hub on the shaft, aim for widely spaced grooves
facing narrow spaced grooves when viewed from the tranny end of the
shaft.

Some lessons I learned:
- before disassembly inscribe reference marks on 3 parts (housing,
ball cage, hub). My mistake was I overlooked inscribing the hub.
- assembly dry, test, then grease. Use latex gloves, the grease may
have lead in it.
- if the joint won't swing freely after assembly, that's a sign to
start again. It's not going to get any better after greasing.
- when inserting balls (at least with hub still mounted on shaft),
return the ball carrier to the neutral position after inserting a new
pair of balls before swinging the cage to insert the next pair of
balls. That is, for a neutral position, if you were to stand the shaft
up on a table with the outboard end of shaft point straight up, the
hub, ball cage, and housing would lie flat on the table. From the
neutral position, then turn the cage to open the next set of holes to
insert balls. This seems to make swinging the ball cage closed back to
the neutral position much easier with the new pair of balls and the
balls seem to line up better with the grooves they will go into.
- if the ball cage binds when swinging it closed after inserting 2 new
balls, remove the last 2 balls, return the ball cage to the neutral
position, and swing the cage open again trying to pivot the cage so
that the hole that you are about to fill swings on an arc as close to
90 deg as possible to the axis that the ball cage is swung around.
- I found with the last pair of balls the cage was hard to swing back
in again and I had abandoned earlier attempts at trying to align the
widely spaced grooves to the narrowly spaced grooves. But persevere
and the cage will eventually close.. The joint should move freely by
finger pressure. Give yourself a thumbs-up.

I'll cross reference a useful set of tips. Search in this newsgroup
for
"CV-Joint woes & Drive flange seal replacement tips? A2".

On the road again....
-Tony


On Sep 11, 9:59 am, "news.wildblue.net" > wrote:
> YEP!
>
> "Tricky" > wrote in message
>
> > Like Jim said - there is a wrong way to assemble them - they just lock !
>
> > take it apart and turn it one groove and put it back together .
>
> > you have a 50 50 chance of getting it right !
>
> > Rich