signaling pulling out of a private driveway

A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a private
driveway. Is this really illegal?

On Mar 21, 7:09 am, "monk" <u32655@uwe> wrote:
> A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a private
> driveway. Is this really illegal?

I'm no law expert, but I think it may be so. It sounds like a law
that is not frequently enforced, like any requirement to signal when
backing (such as into a parallel parking spot) or to signal when
leaving a streetside parking spot).

What was the situation: entering city street, or state highway? If
city street it would be worth checking local ordinances.

The situation would be similar to pulling out of a county road onto a
state highway, which a state patrol officer could issue a citation.

IMO, it's so rarely enforced that if the enforcement level were as
high as for speeding probably 50-90% of current drivers would be under
suspension for points.

Jaybird should be able to offer a better opinion.

"monk" <u32655@uwe> wrote in message news:6f82bfa971e8d@uwe...
>A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a
>private
> driveway. Is this really illegal?
>

Regardless of legality, it can't be enforced. Traffic laws apply to driving
on PUBLIC roads only. There is probably a law stating that you must signal
when turning onto a public road. Problem is, the "signalling" in this case
would need to be done on private property, where police HAVE NO
JURISDICTION.

Take it to court. Ask the prosecution to state what public road you were on
when you were required to signal, prior to entering a public road. If that
question can't be answered (and you know already that it can't), then the
judge should dismiss the charge. -Dave

In article ews.net>, Mike T. wrote:
>
> "monk" <u32655@uwe> wrote in message news:6f82bfa971e8d@uwe...
>>A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a
>>private
>> driveway. Is this really illegal?
>>
>
> Regardless of legality, it can't be enforced. Traffic laws apply to driving
> on PUBLIC roads only. There is probably a law stating that you must signal
> when turning onto a public road. Problem is, the "signalling" in this case
> would need to be done on private property, where police HAVE NO
> JURISDICTION.

Unless he was pulling out on to a public road.

>>
>> Regardless of legality, it can't be enforced. Traffic laws apply to
>> driving
>> on PUBLIC roads only. There is probably a law stating that you must
>> signal
>> when turning onto a public road. Problem is, the "signalling" in this
>> case
>> would need to be done on private property, where police HAVE NO
>> JURISDICTION.
>
> Unless he was pulling out on to a public road.

But he's not charged with an offense that happened on a public road. Where
laws govern signalling (for turns), there is language to the effect of a
certain distance or certain time that you must start signalling before
turning. In either case, no driving law is enforceable on private property.
So no matter when you are supposed to start signalling, it's not enforceable
on private land.

If he had to be charged with something, it should not have been a signal
violation. Maybe "unsafe lane change" (from off the road to on the road) or
something of that nature. For the offense charged, the cop had no
jurisdiction. -Dave

On Mar 21, 7:33 am, "MLOM" > wrote:

> Jaybird should be able to offer a better opinion.

Well, 'different' anyway. But let me save him the time and bother by
posting his reply in advance:

"jaybird" will write in message:>

> If the officer wrote it, the your friend must have done something illegal.
> Stand up and be a Real Man©. Plead "Guilty as charged, your honor,"
> and pay your Debt To Society®.
> -
> jaybird
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

On Mar 21, 3:29 pm, "Motorhead Lawyer" > wrote:
> On Mar 21, 7:33 am, "MLOM" > wrote:
>
> > Jaybird should be able to offer a better opinion.
>
> Well, 'different' anyway. But let me save him the time and bother by
> posting his reply in advance:
>
> "jaybird" will write in message:>
>
> > If the officer wrote it, the your friend must have done something illegal.
> > Stand up and be a Real Man©. Plead "Guilty as charged, your honor,"
> > and pay your Debt To Society®.
> > -
> > jaybird
>
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)

Sounds like the standard "suck it up and drive on" response.

Or a standard Lt. Hadily reply:
>Contrary to your opinion, son, the officer is not a criminal. Your friend should take it >like a man and own up to his responsibility to obey the laws and make amends >when violating them. The laws are there for your own good, junior.
>
>Lt. Hadily

Does that sound better?

Mike T. wrote:
> "monk" <u32655@uwe> wrote in message news:6f82bfa971e8d@uwe...
>> A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a
>> private
>> driveway. Is this really illegal?
>>
>
> Regardless of legality, it can't be enforced. Traffic laws apply to driving
> on PUBLIC roads only. There is probably a law stating that you must signal
> when turning onto a public road. Problem is, the "signalling" in this case
> would need to be done on private property, where police HAVE NO
> JURISDICTION.
>
> Take it to court. Ask the prosecution to state what public road you were on
> when you were required to signal, prior to entering a public road. If that
> question can't be answered (and you know already that it can't), then the
> judge should dismiss the charge. -Dave
>
>
He was probably not on private property. Typically the right-of-way
includes the driveway apron and some of the driveway itself. A person's
property doesn't end at the edge of the street, in other words.

On Mar 21, 4:34 pm, jcr > wrote:
> Mike T. wrote:
> > "monk" <u32655@uwe> wrote in messagenews:6f82bfa971e8d@uwe...
> >> A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a
> >> private
> >> driveway. Is this really illegal?
>
> > Regardless of legality, it can't be enforced. Traffic laws apply to driving
> > on PUBLIC roads only. There is probably a law stating that you must signal
> > when turning onto a public road. Problem is, the "signalling" in this case
> > would need to be done on private property, where police HAVE NO
> > JURISDICTION.
>
> > Take it to court. Ask the prosecution to state what public road you were on
> > when you were required to signal, prior to entering a public road. If that
> > question can't be answered (and you know already that it can't), then the
> > judge should dismiss the charge. -Dave
>
> He was probably not on private property. Typically the right-of-way
> includes the driveway apron and some of the driveway itself. A person's
> property doesn't end at the edge of the street, in other words.

FWIHS, the property line is usually somewhere between the edge of the
street and the sidewalk. Otherwise the municipal workers would be
shoveling the sidewalks in the winter. Any sidewalk work I have seen
(last example may be lame: Kirksville, MO) is by the local utilities
fixing lines and whatnot.

MLOM wrote:
> On Mar 21, 4:34 pm, jcr > wrote:
>> Mike T. wrote:
>>> "monk" <u32655@uwe> wrote in messagenews:6f82bfa971e8d@uwe...
>>>> A friend of mine got a ticket for not signaling when pulling out of a
>>>> private
>>>> driveway. Is this really illegal?
>>> Regardless of legality, it can't be enforced. Traffic laws apply to driving
>>> on PUBLIC roads only. There is probably a law stating that you must signal
>>> when turning onto a public road. Problem is, the "signalling" in this case
>>> would need to be done on private property, where police HAVE NO
>>> JURISDICTION.
>>> Take it to court. Ask the prosecution to state what public road you were on
>>> when you were required to signal, prior to entering a public road. If that
>>> question can't be answered (and you know already that it can't), then the
>>> judge should dismiss the charge. -Dave
>> He was probably not on private property. Typically the right-of-way
>> includes the driveway apron and some of the driveway itself. A person's
>> property doesn't end at the edge of the street, in other words.
>
> FWIHS, the property line is usually somewhere between the edge of the
> street and the sidewalk. Otherwise the municipal workers would be
> shoveling the sidewalks in the winter. Any sidewalk work I have seen
> (last example may be lame: Kirksville, MO) is by the local utilities
> fixing lines and whatnot.
>
That isn't correct in most places. The sidewalk is almost always on
public property (the local government repair them as well...except when
damaged by utility work). However, the ordnances require that the land
owner adjacent to the right-of-way clear the snow, cut the grass, etc.
Usually it's anywhere between 5 and 25 feet. In front of my house the
right if way is 15 feet from the edge of the street...my property ends
there.