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Difficult starting



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 29th 18, 05:07 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Ivan Vegvary[_2_]
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Posts: 57
Default Difficult starting

2008 Kia Rondo, V6
Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
Very repeatable.
Is the gas cap part of the computer system?
Thanks for advice.
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  #2  
Old May 29th 18, 06:26 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
dsi1[_11_]
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Posts: 316
Default Difficult starting

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:07:23 PM UTC-10, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> 2008 Kia Rondo, V6
> Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
> Very repeatable.
> Is the gas cap part of the computer system?
> Thanks for advice.


Make sure your gas cap is in good condition and don't try to top off the tank.
  #3  
Old May 29th 18, 02:50 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Scott Dorsey
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Posts: 3,818
Default Difficult starting

Ivan Vegvary > wrote:
>2008 Kia Rondo, V6
>Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
>Very repeatable.


Is there a smell of gas in the back seat or trunk?

>Is the gas cap part of the computer system?


No, but the tank venting system is controlled by the computer system and
this sure sounds like a problem with the tank venting.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #4  
Old May 29th 18, 03:36 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Xeno
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Posts: 233
Default Difficult starting

On 29/5/18 11:50 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Ivan Vegvary > wrote:
>> 2008 Kia Rondo, V6
>> Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
>> Very repeatable.

>
> Is there a smell of gas in the back seat or trunk?
>
>> Is the gas cap part of the computer system?

>
> No, but the tank venting system is controlled by the computer system and
> this sure sounds like a problem with the tank venting.
> --scott
>

It sure does. It sounds like it's venting the charcoal canister and fuel
tank way before it should. Need to have a look at what the canister/tank
purge system consists of and then go from there. Check too that the
canister hasn't been fuel soaked - that kills them pretty quick.

--

Xeno

"The best way to make a fire with two sticks is to make sure one of them
is a match."
-- Will Rogers
  #5  
Old May 29th 18, 03:51 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Xeno
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Posts: 233
Default Difficult starting

On 29/5/18 2:07 pm, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> 2008 Kia Rondo, V6
> Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
> Very repeatable.
> Is the gas cap part of the computer system?
> Thanks for advice.
>

https://www.toyotaguru.us/sequoia-20...orvr-valve.jpg

Your system should be similar. Check out the purge control solenoid
valve. They tend to stick open and flood the system. You could try full
throttle (clear flood mode - reduced fuel delivery at injectors) when
starting and if it starts a shade more easily, then the purge control
solenoid valve or its upstream circuit should be looked at.

--

Xeno

"The best way to make a fire with two sticks is to make sure one of them
is a match."
-- Will Rogers
  #6  
Old May 29th 18, 06:57 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Steve W.[_6_]
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Posts: 1,072
Default Difficult starting

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> 2008 Kia Rondo, V6
> Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
> Very repeatable.
> Is the gas cap part of the computer system?
> Thanks for advice.


Bad purge solenoid. It is in the engine compartment near the intake
manifold and allows the engine to draw off the collected vapors from the
charcoal canister. When they stick open the action of filling the gas
tank drives the vapor up into the intake manifold and you end up with
such a rich mixture that the engine won't start. Very common failure and
symptom.

--
Steve W.
  #7  
Old May 29th 18, 09:13 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 89
Default Difficult starting

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 12:57:51 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:
> Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> > 2008 Kia Rondo, V6
> > Starts in an instant EXCEPT when at gas station for a fill up. Takes over 30 seconds of cranking, stalls 2-3 times and runs crappy for about one minute.
> > Very repeatable.
> > Is the gas cap part of the computer system?
> > Thanks for advice.

>
> Bad purge solenoid. It is in the engine compartment near the intake
> manifold and allows the engine to draw off the collected vapors from the
> charcoal canister. When they stick open the action of filling the gas
> tank drives the vapor up into the intake manifold and you end up with
> such a rich mixture that the engine won't start. Very common failure and
> symptom.
>
> --
> Steve W.


Youtube Kia Rio Purge Valve Replacement Procedure ...Somebody at kia-forums.com said those valves tend to stick partially open/whatever. Just as well to install a new one.
  #9  
Old July 14th 18, 03:32 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
dsi1[_11_]
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Posts: 316
Default Difficult starting

On Wednesday, July 11, 2018 at 5:31:45 AM UTC-10, micky wrote:
>
> I saw on a TV court case where a shop told a Volvo owner that his loose
> gas cap had cause his something something pump to run all the time and
> that caused it to burn out and set the check engine light.
>
> By the time I got to the conputer, I forgot what the first two words
> were.
>
> Do you or does anyone here know the things full name?
>
> Does this sound believable. He said the pump was meant to increase or
> maybe equalize air pressure in the gas tank.


A leaky gas cap causing an electric motor to burn out? Sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me.

I was working on my daughter's Jeep Cherokee today in the hot tropical sun and the thought occurred to me that it will be a great day when cars are electric and I won't have to look for vacuum leaks and replace emission control sensors/valves. All this will be over like some bad dream.
  #10  
Old July 16th 18, 07:36 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
Sanity Clause[_3_]
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Posts: 5
Default Difficult starting

micky wrote:

> I saw on a TV court case where a shop told a Volvo owner that his loose
> gas cap had cause his something something pump to run all the time and
> that caused it to burn out and set the check engine light.


Leak Detection Pump.

It's Part of the EVAP (aka Evaporative Emission Control System), and
tests the fuel tank to make sure it can maintain pressure and vacuum at
certain levels, which means fuel vapor (fumes) won't escape.

It's not a typical spinning-electric-motor type of pump, but a set of
solenoids, diaphragms, valves, and orifices that are activated by the
ECU. Close the external air vent, open some vacuum ports, and measure
how fast the tank gets sucked down to a set level. Open/close other
valves, then pulse the diaphragms to slowly pressurize the tank, and
measure that. If the readings don't change fast enough, or stay steady
long enough, the system assumes there's a leak, and the Check Engine
light will turn on. Cars are usually only tested once per "warm-up
cycle", and only for a few minutes, so all leaving the gas cap loose
does is set the light, not "burn out" the not-really-a-pump.

That concludes today's lesson. Class dismissed.

 




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