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Oil changes



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 12th 10, 01:27 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
navaidstech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Oil changes

On Feb 21, 10:17*pm, "Private" > wrote:
> "navaidstech" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> >I used to take my 92 Saturn SL1 to the dealer for oil changes when it
> > was new, as this is what I was told by their salespeople.
> > Little did I know, I could have taken it to Mr. Lube and paid half of
> > what the dealership charged me (about 60 dollars back in early
> > nineties), but... I was young and stupid back then and didn't know any
> > better.

>
> > Soon as the warranty expired, I started doing my own changes and at
> > 100,000 km I switched to Synthetic. Almost 18 years later I'm still
> > using the same brand of Synth oil and a el-cheapo filter from Canadian
> > Tire.
> > The car now has 554,000 kms on it (334,000 mi) and about the only
> > MAJOR engine job I had to do on it was timing chain swap about 2
> > months ago (one of the guides shattered).
> > The compression in each cylinder is 185+ PSI cold and dry. Engine
> > consumes about a quart every 10,000 kms (6000 mi) and that's when I do
> > my changes too - no sooner and no later than that.

>
> > Alex

>
> IMHO, This is excellent service life, and your maintenance program and
> schedule is obviously working well for your driving conditions and your
> driving style. *I suspect you do mostly highway with few short trips, have a
> std tranny and keep your revs low. *Are you still on your original clutch?
>
> Good luck,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Thanks!

I did exactly that ever since I got the car. Kept the revs at between
2000 and 2500 on the highway, which put me at around 60-65 mph. VERY
RARELY has the engine gone past 2500 RPM.
I did a lot of highway driving up until about 3 years ago when I got
transferred to a work location much closer to my house. I used to
drive about 40 miles each way for about 15 years, 80% of which was
highway miles. The engine went through all sorts of weather conditions
that you can encounter up here in the Toronto area - very hot summers
and cold winters - I think the money I invested in Synthetic oil sure
have paid off.
I currently drive about 15 miles each way, and it's a 50-50 mix
highway/city streets. I have a feeling that this increased stress will
eventually kill the clutch, which has never been replaced since I
bought the car.

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  #12  
Old March 12th 10, 01:35 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
navaidstech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Oil changes

On Feb 20, 3:06*pm, JimR > wrote:
> Congratulations, sounds like you have broke the bank on this one. *Your
> cumulative miles suggest that you probably do a lot of highway driving.
> * Is that correct?
>
> My 97 SL2 has been good to me. Currently have 209,000 miles. *The first
> 7 years was virtually all highway driving, which I think contributed to
> its longevity. *I did dealer oil changes about every 3000 miles, but
> they only charged $19 - $25 each.
>
> I'm now considering dropping it and buying something other than GM. *I'm
> kinda' ****ed off at them. *The A/C compressor died this winter, and I'm
> not looking forward to a summer of sweltering heat. *I figure 13 years
> is pretty good, but now it's time to put Old Yeller down.
>
> JimR
>
>


Thanks Jim!
Guys at work are telling me that I have contributed to Saturn's demise
by not buying any more of their cars. LOL.
I had no reason to. The car runs great and is very low on
maintenance.... well, except the last year when all sorts of problems
crept up (new rack and pinion, power steering pump and hoses, timing
chain, alternator to name a few).
I better not say anything positive about the car or it will start
giving me new troubles. LOL.
Much like your car, I strongly believe the longevity of mine was due
to a lot of highway driving (SENSIBLE highway driving - not speeding,
jackrabbit starts, etc) however now that I've been transferred to a
different work location, I have a feeling that the clutch may not be
able to handle the extra stress as I'm doing a 50/50 mix of highway
and city street driving.
I am thinking of getting another car as well and much like yourself
I'm leaning towards a non-GM product. Same reason - I'm ****ed at them
and probably for the same reason as you.
Good luck with your search!

Alex


  #13  
Old March 14th 10, 11:37 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Private
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Oil changes


"navaidstech" > wrote in message
...
snip
> IMHO, This is excellent service life, and your maintenance program and
> schedule is obviously working well for your driving conditions and your
> driving style. I suspect you do mostly highway with few short trips, have
> a
> std tranny and keep your revs low. Are you still on your original clutch?
>
> Good luck,- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Thanks!

I did exactly that ever since I got the car. Kept the revs at between
2000 and 2500 on the highway, which put me at around 60-65 mph. VERY
RARELY has the engine gone past 2500 RPM.
I did a lot of highway driving up until about 3 years ago when I got
transferred to a work location much closer to my house. I used to
drive about 40 miles each way for about 15 years, 80% of which was
highway miles. The engine went through all sorts of weather conditions
that you can encounter up here in the Toronto area - very hot summers
and cold winters - I think the money I invested in Synthetic oil sure
have paid off.
I currently drive about 15 miles each way, and it's a 50-50 mix
highway/city streets. I have a feeling that this increased stress will
eventually kill the clutch, which has never been replaced since I
bought the car.

I am impressed with both your service life and your disciplined driving
style, it verifies much of what I have suggested previously. I will admit
to reving slightly higher than you on occasion (usually under 3000 but
occasionally higher) but in my defense also operate on much steeper mountain
grades than you do, and often haul considerable weight. I have always
thought that the S series SOHC engines greatest unappreciated strength was
the flat low RPM torque curve that permits most operation at low engine
speed which considerably reduces engine wear and fuel consumption.

I am unaware if you are a pilot in addition to your navaidtech work. Most
people are unaware that aircraft engines operate in a similar RPM range and
are designed with a flat torque curve. They use larger displacement engines
operating at relatively low (1500-2700 rpm) to maximize service life and
reliability. Smaller higher reving (Rotax and others) engines seldom have
as long a TBO (time between overhaul) as the lower operating speed
Continentals and Lycomings. The SOHC S series engine torque peak is at 2400
rpm. Torque peak is usually the point of maximum volumetric efficiency and
of min fuel consumption (per HP produced)

The SOHC S series 5sp transmission has quite a low gear ratio in 1st gear
which combined with the engines good low speed torque allows one to get
rolling at low engine speed and without excessive clutch slippage. (Heavy
vehicle drivers are trained to start out in the gear which will allow
start-up without adding throttle.) I find that the shift to 2nd gear can be
made in a very short distance and at quite low engine speed. I am a big
believer in 'progressive shifting' where the shift point rpms are
progressively raised as we work our way up the trany, but with the shifts
been made as soon as possible. This is sometimes called 'short shifting'.
I think this is the major factor in long clutch life but you should claim
much of the credit for having and performing good and disciplined driving
skills, I bet you keep your foot away from the clutch pedal unless you are
using it.

I hesitate to suggest that you vary a maintenance schedule which is
obviously working well, but most engines experience increased oil
contamination rates as they age and this will also be increased by short
trips, particularly in the winter months as the engine oil will spend less
time at full operating temperature which will reduce moisture boil off and
crankcase cleaning through the PCV valve and cause increased acid formation
in the oil. Due to your decreased trip lengths, I would suggest that you
consider reducing your change intervals particularly during the cold months.

I hope you can make it to 1,000,000 km. consider this a challenge.

Good luck, YMMV


  #14  
Old March 18th 10, 10:34 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Fred[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Oil changes

3 month/3000 miles is my standard

'94 SC2 still going strong > 200k miles
Fred


"Shawn" > wrote in message
...
>I own an 2007 Saturn Aura XR with about 59,000 miles. I've had the
> car since July of last year and so far I've put on about 23,000
> miles. I drive on average of about 950 miles per week. I've only had
> the oil changed twice in the nearly 6 months that I've owned it. Both
> times that I've had it changed I've waited until the "oil life"
> reading on the DIC had decremented itself down to 0%. Today, when I
> was in for my most recent oil change, the oil change tech scolded me
> for not bringing in the car sooner. I specified that it had been
> nearly 11,000 miles since my last change but that the oil life reading
> had only very recently went all the way down to 0%. He told me that I
> can't use that as an indicator as to when the oil should be changed if
> I'm using standard oil. He said that I'd need to be using a premium
> type oil in order to go that long without a change. I double checked
> my owners manual and reread the portion that talked about oil
> changes. As I expected, the manual said that the car uses the onboard
> computer to determine when the oil needs to be changed. As well, the
> manual didn't say anything at all about only using high grade
> synthetic oils. My question is this - if I'm using regular grade 10w
> - 30 oil should I "trust" the car and only get my oil changed when the
> life meter decrements itself all the way down to, or near, 0% (even if
> this means that 10 or 11 thousand miles have passed since my last
> change) or should I religiously change my oil every 3 months or 3,000
> miles as has been preached to us since time immeasurable. I think
> that the oil change tech was probably just regurgitating what he was
> told when he was hired - "tell everyone that has gone more then 3
> months or 3,000 miles since their last change that this is a bad
> practice and that it should be done every 3 months or 3,000
> regardless." Thanks for any help!



  #15  
Old March 22nd 10, 06:52 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
navaidstech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Oil changes


>
> I am impressed with both your service life and your disciplined driving
> style, it verifies much of what I have suggested previously. *I will admit
> to reving slightly higher than you on occasion (usually under 3000 but
> occasionally higher) but in my defense also operate on much steeper mountain
> grades than you do, and often haul considerable weight. *I have always
> thought that the S series SOHC engines greatest unappreciated strength was
> the flat low RPM torque curve that permits most operation at low engine
> speed which considerably reduces engine wear and fuel consumption.
>


Thank you... I never thought I'd be able to keep up with this style of
driving but it's been 18 years and I stuck to my old guns, LOL. The
car does occasionally see around 3000 RPM but not often enough. The
area where I live is flat as a pancake... we do have some hills and
valleys north of us but I don't go there that often.

> I am unaware if you are a pilot in addition to your navaidtech work. *Most
> people are unaware that aircraft engines operate in a similar RPM range and


Nope, not a pilot... just looking after all the navaids in the Toronto
area.

>
> The SOHC S series 5sp transmission has quite a low gear ratio in 1st gear
> which combined with the engines good low speed torque allows one to get
> rolling at low engine speed and without excessive clutch slippage. *(Heavy
> vehicle drivers are trained to start out in the gear which will allow
> start-up without adding throttle.) *I find that the shift to 2nd gear can be
> made in a very short distance and at quite low engine speed. *I am a big


Yes... I've noticed that as well.

> believer in 'progressive shifting' where the shift point rpms are
> progressively raised as we work our way up the trany, but with the shifts
> been made as soon as possible. *This is sometimes called 'short shifting'.
> I think this is the major factor in long clutch life but you should claim
> much of the credit for having and performing good and disciplined driving
> skills, I bet you keep your foot away from the clutch pedal unless you are
> using it.


Yes, this is something that my Dad told me a looong time ago - never
keep your foot on the clutch unless you have to. As such, my shifter
is always in neutral and my left foot is off the clutch pedal when I'm
stopped at the lights. I'm still not sure what he meant by it, but I
do remember him saying that when the clutch is depressed, there is
some component in the transaxle that is doing some work and wears out
over time. Unfortunately, my knowledge of manual transmissions is
extremely limited (I can fix just about anything else in that car BUT
the transmission) so I can't even picture as to what he was referring
to.
Bottom line is that his advice (whether right or wrong it might be)
stuck with me and quite possibly prolonged the life of the
clutch....maybe?


>
> I hesitate to suggest that you vary a maintenance schedule which is
> obviously working well, but most engines experience increased oil
> contamination rates as they age and this will also be increased by short
> trips, particularly in the winter months as the engine oil will spend less
> time at full operating temperature which will reduce moisture boil off and
> crankcase cleaning through the PCV valve and cause increased acid formation
> in the oil. *Due to your decreased trip lengths, I would suggest that you
> consider reducing your change intervals particularly during the cold months.
>


You know what? I agree with you and I think I'll start doing just
that. Too bad this didn't occur to me sooner...

> I hope you can make it to 1,000,000 km. consider this a challenge.
>


Oh boy... that will be tough. WIth my current driving schedule, it
would take me about 20+ years to get up to a mil. The car is slowly
falling apart in other places and I have a feeling that the engine
will outlast the body, LOL. However, I will try to keep the car as
long as I can until my wife threatens me with a divorce, LOL. You
should have seen her face when I told her about the timing chain
trouble and the car was on its last legs a couple of months back...
she lit up like a Christmas tree and said "Does that mean you're
getting rid of this piece of s... and buying a new car???". But in the
end, when I fixed the car, her mood changed drastically.

> Good luck, YMMV


Thanks!!!

Alex
  #16  
Old March 24th 10, 03:47 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Private
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Oil changes


"navaidstech" > wrote in message
...
snip
> I think this is the major factor in long clutch life but you should claim
> much of the credit for having and performing good and disciplined driving
> skills, I bet you keep your foot away from the clutch pedal unless you are
> using it.


Yes, this is something that my Dad told me a looong time ago - never
keep your foot on the clutch unless you have to. As such, my shifter
is always in neutral and my left foot is off the clutch pedal when I'm
stopped at the lights. I'm still not sure what he meant by it, but I
do remember him saying that when the clutch is depressed, there is
some component in the transaxle that is doing some work and wears out
over time. Unfortunately, my knowledge of manual transmissions is
extremely limited (I can fix just about anything else in that car BUT
the transmission) so I can't even picture as to what he was referring
to.
Bottom line is that his advice (whether right or wrong it might be)
stuck with me and quite possibly prolonged the life of the
clutch....maybe?

You are refering to the 'clutch release bearing' aka 'throwout bearing'.
This bearing bears on the release forks of the clutch pressure plate when
the clutch pedal is depressed. It is normally lifetime lubricated but that
lifetime is affected by total time in operation, which is greatly reduced by
placing trans in neutral (foot off the pedal) like you correctly do at stop
lights. This bearing is normally replaced whenever the cluch driven plate
is replaced.

When the clutch is released (pedal depressed), the driving surfaces
(flywheel and pressure plate) are rotating very close (probably touching on
one side) to the driven clutch plate surfaces, and while this will not
provide substantial torque transfer, IMHO there is still wear to the now
stationary driven plate as well as heat generation.

You indicate good driver disipline and training and IMHO this is a big
reason for your good service life.

Happy trails,
snip


  #17  
Old March 25th 10, 04:16 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
navaidstech
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Oil changes


>
> You are refering to the 'clutch release bearing' aka 'throwout bearing'.
> This bearing bears on the release forks of the clutch pressure plate when
> the clutch pedal is depressed. *It is normally lifetime lubricated but that
> lifetime is affected by total time in operation, which is greatly reduced by
> placing trans in neutral (foot off the pedal) like you correctly do at stop
> lights. *This bearing is normally replaced whenever the cluch driven plate
> is replaced.
>
> When the clutch is released (pedal depressed), the driving surfaces
> (flywheel and pressure plate) are rotating very close (probably touching on
> one side) to the driven clutch plate surfaces, and while this will not
> provide substantial torque transfer, IMHO there is still wear to the now
> stationary driven plate as well as heat generation.


Yes! He did mention some sort of a bearing and that must be it. Thank
you for confirming it for me.

>
> You indicate good driver disipline and training and IMHO this is a big
> reason for your good service life.
>

You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject. Thank you for your
kind words... coming from you they really mean a lot to me.

Alex

 




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