86 4kQ just quit on me

Greetings

My very reliable 86 4000 quattro just died like a stone few days ago.
Just quit like a wire fell off! There's no spark coming out of the coil.
I wasn't too optimistic, but I did replace the coil since it had a piece
broken out of the ceramic high tension lead socket. Well, that wasn't
it. So I suppose it's on to the oh so conveniently located ignition
module.

Could the wisdom-base here recommend any must-do's before I spend the
$100+ on a new module? Is there an easy test I could do with a
multi-meter to rule in or out the module as the problem. Any other
component come to mind as a possible (or, better yet, probable) culprit?

TIA

miguelito

miguelito wrote:
> Greetings
>
> My very reliable 86 4000 quattro just died like a stone few days ago.
> Just quit like a wire fell off! There's no spark coming out of the coil.
> I wasn't too optimistic, but I did replace the coil since it had a piece
> broken out of the ceramic high tension lead socket. Well, that wasn't
> it. So I suppose it's on to the oh so conveniently located ignition
> module.
>
> Could the wisdom-base here recommend any must-do's before I spend the
> $100+ on a new module? Is there an easy test I could do with a
> multi-meter to rule in or out the module as the problem. Any other
> component come to mind as a possible (or, better yet, probable) culprit?
>
> TIA
>
> miguelito
>

It would a lot more like you broke the timing belt which would cause a
no-spark condition when cranking because the cam isn't turning with the
crankshaft.

Take the cap off the distributor and see if it is not turning when you
use the starter. If not - broken timing belt.

If that is the case I 'think' that the 4K may not be an interference
engine so you may not have broken and valves. If so you can have the
timing belt, tensioner, water pump and a few other things replaced or
even DIY with a few of the right tools. Cost of those parts should be
$250 to $300 US.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Usually the sound of the engine cranking over will be very different if the
timing belt is broken. So use your senses! ;-)
If your timing belt is intact and your distributor is turning, check for
power at the ign coil WITH the ign switch on please.
The power to the ign coil could disappear as you crank the engine over so
monitor power especially when you crank over the engine.
Might just be a defective ign switch, or a fuse, or a relay, or some wiring.
Make sure that the plug that goes into the distributor has clean and tight
terminals. You don't want to see green/black crud building up on them.
If you have power to the coil then maybe the hall sensor in the distributor.

Do you have a repair manual so you are not throwing parts into the 4KQ?
I will assume that you checked the spark coming from the coil correctly!
8^)
--
later,
(One out of many daves)
1997 Red A4 1.8tq auto


"TonyJ" <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote in message
. ..
> miguelito wrote:
>> Greetings
>>
>> My very reliable 86 4000 quattro just died like a stone few days ago.
>> Just quit like a wire fell off! There's no spark coming out of the coil.
>> I wasn't too optimistic, but I did replace the coil since it had a piece
>> broken out of the ceramic high tension lead socket. Well, that wasn't it.
>> So I suppose it's on to the oh so conveniently located ignition module.
>> Could the wisdom-base here recommend any must-do's before I spend the
>> $100+ on a new module? Is there an easy test I could do with a
>> multi-meter to rule in or out the module as the problem. Any other
>> component come to mind as a possible (or, better yet, probable) culprit?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> miguelito
>>
>
> It would a lot more like you broke the timing belt which would cause a
> no-spark condition when cranking because the cam isn't turning with the
> crankshaft.
>
> Take the cap off the distributor and see if it is not turning when you use
> the starter. If not - broken timing belt.
>
> If that is the case I 'think' that the 4K may not be an interference
> engine so you may not have broken and valves. If so you can have the
> timing belt, tensioner, water pump and a few other things replaced or even
> DIY with a few of the right tools. Cost of those parts should be $250 to
> $300 US.
>
> Good luck and let us know what you find.

In article >,
"dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote:

> Usually the sound of the engine cranking over will be very different if the
> timing belt is broken. So use your senses! ;-)

I don't get the impression that it's blowing past partially open valves,
but I'll sure check the rotor as I crank.

> I will assume that you checked the spark coming from the coil correctly!

Will you hold my hand while I do it? That's a good point though--it
could be a bad lead from coil to distributor. I only checked it for an
arc while another guy cranked. Then again, it hasn't been missing or
anything. It runs great. It just died like somebody turned the switch
off.

> Do you have a repair manual so you are not throwing parts into the 4KQ?

Weell--not exactly. I've got the stupid Haynes one that doesn't cover
the quattro.

> Might just be a defective ign switch, or a fuse, or a relay, or some wiring.

This may take awhile.

Are there any pertinent relays located anywhere other than the fusebox
under the hood?

I'll try to post again in a couple days when hopefully I've had a little
more time to work thru it.

Thanks for your responses

miguelito

Ignition switch is a good guess.
I had an 85 80 and a 95 90 that both developed switch problems.
They just would not start.
Actually the 85 did turn over, the 95 nothing.

> Weell--not exactly. I've got the stupid Haynes one that doesn't cover
> the quattro.
>
>> Might just be a defective ign switch, or a fuse, or a relay, or some
>> wiring.
>
> This may take awhile.
>

In article >,
"Bill" > wrote:

> Ignition switch is a good guess.
> I had an 85 80 and a 95 90 that both developed switch problems.
> They just would not start.
> Actually the 85 did turn over, the 95 nothing.

Thanks for the tip Bill. Maybe a common weak spot? I had an 83 Coupe
that I had to change out the switch on, but I think I remember it was
due to a broken key. Anyway at least I've done it once before.

Dang my next project on this thing was supposed to be front struts and
ball joints. Oh well--it doesn't handle that bad parked in the garage
anyway.

miguelito

P.S. to all: the floor is still open for suggestions. I probably won't
have much time for wrenching this week.

miguelito wrote:
> In article >,
> "Bill" > wrote:
>
>
>> Ignition switch is a good guess.
>> I had an 85 80 and a 95 90 that both developed switch problems.
>> They just would not start.
>> Actually the 85 did turn over, the 95 nothing.
>>
>
> Thanks for the tip Bill. Maybe a common weak spot? I had an 83 Coupe
> that I had to change out the switch on, but I think I remember it was
> due to a broken key. Anyway at least I've done it once before.
>
> Dang my next project on this thing was supposed to be front struts and
> ball joints. Oh well--it doesn't handle that bad parked in the garage
> anyway.
>
> miguelito
>
> P.S. to all: the floor is still open for suggestions. I probably won't
> have much time for wrenching this week.
>
I am still guessing T belt but the other ignition related suggestions
could also be the problem.

You had asked about other relays in another message. Not sure on yours
but on the T44 series there was a relay box under the hood on the
drivers side and another one under the dash just in front of the drivers
left knee.

In the relay box under the hood there are probably four or five fuses
that are part of engine management and worth checking.

It could also be that something broke the flywheel reference pin to
provide crank position for the ECU.

The hall effect module and the wired for it on the distributor were
problematic on the T44s and probably on yours.

Another possibility is that your distributor has one of the infamous
nylon gears on the bottom and it has broken.

Good luck.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:06:24 -0500, miguelito
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Bill" > wrote:
>
>> Ignition switch is a good guess.
>> I had an 85 80 and a 95 90 that both developed switch problems.
>> They just would not start.
>> Actually the 85 did turn over, the 95 nothing.
>
>Thanks for the tip Bill. Maybe a common weak spot? I had an 83 Coupe
>that I had to change out the switch on, but I think I remember it was
>due to a broken key. Anyway at least I've done it once before.
>
>Dang my next project on this thing was supposed to be front struts and
>ball joints. Oh well--it doesn't handle that bad parked in the garage
>anyway.
>
>miguelito
>
>P.S. to all: the floor is still open for suggestions. I probably won't
>have much time for wrenching this week.

When you turn the key to start it, does the starter turn the engine?
If so, does the starter sound like it is being resisted (from the
compression of the engine), or does it sound like it is free wheeling?
(Sort of like a bass when the engine used to start, and now it's a
soprano with the starter without any resistance). If this is the
case, it is your timing belt (like someone else has mentioned).

It sounds like a timing belt gone to TB heaven. You may have damaged
valves.

Dave (been there, done that, have the hat and t-shirt, after hitting a
deer in 96 with a 94 S4)

Now happy with a chipped RS6, lowered via Bilsteins, and running BBS
19" LM wheels.