Someone stepping up to the plate

This is honestly the first time talk of Ethanol really caught my
attention:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374

Phillips: Do you believe oil companies would deliberately drop the
price of oil?

Khosla: Absolutely. A senior executive of a major oil company came up
to me and said, "Be careful." In a very warning tone he said,
"Be careful, we can drop the price of gasoline."

JohnH wrote:
> This is honestly the first time talk of Ethanol really caught my
> attention:
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374
>
> Phillips: Do you believe oil companies would deliberately drop the
> price of oil?
>
> Khosla: Absolutely. A senior executive of a major oil company came up
> to me and said, "Be careful." In a very warning tone he said,
> "Be careful, we can drop the price of gasoline."

Hell, I can write better stories than this using Anonymous sources.

In article .com>, Larry Bud wrote:
>
> JohnH wrote:
>> This is honestly the first time talk of Ethanol really caught my
>> attention:
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374
>>
>> Phillips: Do you believe oil companies would deliberately drop the
>> price of oil?
>>
>> Khosla: Absolutely. A senior executive of a major oil company came up
>> to me and said, "Be careful." In a very warning tone he said,
>> "Be careful, we can drop the price of gasoline."
>
> Hell, I can write better stories than this using Anonymous sources.

The 60 minutes report last night was better.... although I only heard it
on the radio.

but getting back to the post... that quote is an admission of exactly
what I have been saying. Big oil has been playing games with supply to
manipulate price.

Also as I have posted for years now, flex fuel is a simple change. A
wider range O2 sensor, some different fuel system materials (stock
injectors and fuel pumps should be able to deliver enough volume easily),
and some different programing to the engine management system. For a new
vehicle the cost is pennies at most. It could be past on to the consumer
entirely without notice. (Who's going to really care when a $25,000 car
goes up in price by maybe $5 for this feature, if at all?)

The flex fuel mandate should be made. It costs us nothing and can could
be put into effect as requirements for fuel systems and engine management
systems much like specification of headlamps or tail lamps or any other
automotive subsystem. After all, the federal government madated that
stupid costly tire pressure monitoring system because of a few morons
that couldn't be bothered to check their tires every so often. Flex fuel
is considerably more useful and costs next to nothing.

Has anyone estimated how many square miles of corn would be
necessary to supply the US automotive ethanol needs? I'm guessing that
the we'd need to grow only corn and nothing else.

Did you even read the article?

In article .com>, 223rem wrote:
> Has anyone estimated how many square miles of corn would be
> necessary to supply the US automotive ethanol needs? I'm guessing that
> the we'd need to grow only corn and nothing else.

That all-ethanol concept is hinging on a technology that makes
practically any sort of cellouse viable feed stock to make ethanol. That
means growing the plants for food, harvesting the food, then the rest of
the plant can go to making ethanol.

Your lawn's grass clippings could be turned into fuel

Not yet

223rem wrote:

> Has anyone estimated how many square miles of corn would be
> necessary to supply the US automotive ethanol needs? I'm guessing that
> the we'd need to grow only corn and nothing else.

The use of corn seems quite perverse and seems to be a USA thing. In the UK
we're going to be using sugar beet which is better for the job.

In another group I read that US trade protection for sugar producers which gives
your sugar beet producers artifically high prices for their product may be the
reason behind the non-use of beet.

Graham

Brent P wrote:

> In article .com>, 223rem wrote:
> > Has anyone estimated how many square miles of corn would be
> > necessary to supply the US automotive ethanol needs? I'm guessing that
> > the we'd need to grow only corn and nothing else.
>
> That all-ethanol concept is hinging on a technology that makes
> practically any sort of cellouse viable feed stock to make ethanol. That
> means growing the plants for food, harvesting the food, then the rest of
> the plant can go to making ethanol.
>
> Your lawn's grass clippings could be turned into fuel

In principle any plant matter at all but it might not be cost effective to go that
far !

In Sweden there's a town much of whose public transport runs from bio-methane made
from cows !
http://www.discover.com/issues/may-06/rd/methane-fuel/

Graham

Brent P wrote:

> In article .com>, Larry Bud wrote:
> >
> > JohnH wrote:
> >> This is honestly the first time talk of Ethanol really caught my
> >> attention:
> >>
> >> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374
> >>
> >> Phillips: Do you believe oil companies would deliberately drop the
> >> price of oil?
> >>
> >> Khosla: Absolutely. A senior executive of a major oil company came up
> >> to me and said, "Be careful." In a very warning tone he said,
> >> "Be careful, we can drop the price of gasoline."
> >
> > Hell, I can write better stories than this using Anonymous sources.
>
> The 60 minutes report last night was better.... although I only heard it
> on the radio.
>
> but getting back to the post... that quote is an admission of exactly
> what I have been saying. Big oil has been playing games with supply to
> manipulate price.
>
> Also as I have posted for years now, flex fuel is a simple change. A
> wider range O2 sensor, some different fuel system materials (stock
> injectors and fuel pumps should be able to deliver enough volume easily),
> and some different programing to the engine management system. For a new
> vehicle the cost is pennies at most. It could be past on to the consumer
> entirely without notice. (Who's going to really care when a $25,000 car
> goes up in price by maybe $5 for this feature, if at all?)
>
> The flex fuel mandate should be made. It costs us nothing and can could
> be put into effect as requirements for fuel systems and engine management
> systems much like specification of headlamps or tail lamps or any other
> automotive subsystem. After all, the federal government madated that
> stupid costly tire pressure monitoring system because of a few morons
> that couldn't be bothered to check their tires every so often. Flex fuel
> is considerably more useful and costs next to nothing.

Saab's BioPower models address exactly the above. They've sold well in Sweden, are about
to go on sale in the UK and should be with you next year.

Graham