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Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 14th 06, 07:02 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

Pooh Bear wrote:
>
> AZ Nomad wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:51:26 -0500, Steve W. > wrote:
> > >...work. The alternator requires voltage to it before it will generate any
> > >power. Spinning it won't make any difference.

> >
> > Is that really true?

>
> Yes. You need field current to create the magnetic field.
>
> > How is it possible to push start a car w/
> > a manual tranny if the alternator will never put out any current when
> > the battery is dead? Perhaps when a battery is "dead", it still has a few
> > volts

>
> Yes.
>
> > and that is enough for the alternator to operate?

>
> Irrelevant during starting.
>
> Graham


Say the battery only has enough to fire up the alternator field, then
the push start can have a sudden 12-14 volts injected into the spark
circuit which can be enough to start it up.

If the battery has a heavy draw like an electric fuel pump, it might not
have enough to fire up the alternator, well in my experience, it doesn't
have enough, so you get no start on a push.

The old carb systems didn't have any/many heavy draws with the key in
'on' so they were 'easy' to push start.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
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  #22  
Old February 14th 06, 07:03 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:50:24 +0000, Pooh Bear > wrote:




>AZ Nomad wrote:


>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:51:26 -0500, Steve W. > wrote:
>> >...work. The alternator requires voltage to it before it will generate any
>> >power. Spinning it won't make any difference.

>>
>> Is that really true?


>Yes. You need field current to create the magnetic field.


>> How is it possible to push start a car w/
>> a manual tranny if the alternator will never put out any current when
>> the battery is dead? Perhaps when a battery is "dead", it still has a few
>> volts


>Yes.


>> and that is enough for the alternator to operate?


>Irrelevant during starting.


It's relevant if there's no voltage for the ignition system.



  #23  
Old February 14th 06, 07:37 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:02:51 -0500, Mike Romain > wrote:


>If the battery has a heavy draw like an electric fuel pump, it might not
>have enough to fire up the alternator, well in my experience, it doesn't
>have enough, so you get no start on a push.

I don't think the fuel pump is that great a current draw. Two bigger
problems are 1) it may not run at all on less than 9V or so and 2) it is only
run for a few seconds when the key is first turned on. By the time
the electrical system gets it's first kick of juice from the alternator,
that initial timeout has expired.





>The old carb systems didn't have any/many heavy draws with the key in
>'on' so they were 'easy' to push start.


>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

  #24  
Old February 14th 06, 09:09 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.



Mike Romain wrote:

> Pooh Bear wrote:
> >
> > AZ Nomad wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:51:26 -0500, Steve W. > wrote:
> > > >...work. The alternator requires voltage to it before it will generate any
> > > >power. Spinning it won't make any difference.
> > >
> > > Is that really true?

> >
> > Yes. You need field current to create the magnetic field.
> >
> > > How is it possible to push start a car w/
> > > a manual tranny if the alternator will never put out any current when
> > > the battery is dead? Perhaps when a battery is "dead", it still has a few
> > > volts

> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > and that is enough for the alternator to operate?

> >
> > Irrelevant during starting.
> >
> > Graham

>
> Say the battery only has enough to fire up the alternator field, then
> the push start can have a sudden 12-14 volts injected into the spark
> circuit which can be enough to start it up.
>
> If the battery has a heavy draw like an electric fuel pump, it might not
> have enough to fire up the alternator, well in my experience, it doesn't
> have enough, so you get no start on a push.
>
> The old carb systems didn't have any/many heavy draws with the key in
> 'on' so they were 'easy' to push start.


I doubt that the fuel pump draws that much. I suspect you'll need around 9 volts or
so still left in the battery for the elctronics to work.You most likely will have
that unless the battery is totally stone dead.

As for the alternator, there's always some residual magnetism left.

Graham

  #25  
Old February 14th 06, 11:17 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

Sam Nickaby wrote:
> I have been thinking of a good way to prevent stranding
> myself from a dead battery. It happened twice. Once at a
> beach from leaving my lights on. The other was at a college
> campus which the stereo and the dome light ran down the
> battery. Unlike the beach, the college campus have lots of
> helpful students with beat up cars that have jumper cables.
> Now, I have a new idea. Once my battery runs dry, I
> remove my alternator belt and wrap a rope around the
> alternator pulley. I then pull the rope so it'll turn 10
> revolutions per pull. I keep doing this for about 20 times.
>
> What is the possibility that this will supply enough charge
> to start the car. If not, can somebody think of a clever idea
> to start an automatic?
>
> Thanks
>


You would have more chance of winning the lottery... without buying a
ticket. :-)

If you're that concerned about it, as other's have said, investigate
buying a booster pack. Another more expensive option is to have a dual
battery system setup, giving the starter motor it's own battery...
though that would be the first time I'd ever heard of such a setup in a
honda civic. :-)

<http://www.tjmproducts.com.au/dual_batteries.html>

There's the kill switch option, which if installed properly should cut
power to everything in the car. This also acts as an immobilizer, until
your potential thief finds the switch (though I cant vouch for the
intelligence of all car thieves.) The downside to that is if you have a
security coded radio you'd have to put in the code every time you start
the car.

Of course by far the easiest and cheapest option is not to run
significant amounts of electrics when your motor isn't running.

How long did you have your stereo and cabin light on for when they ran
down the battery? You should've been able to have the stereo going and
your cabin light on for a few hours without any problems. If it was a
relatively short period of time, you may need to look at purchasing a
new battery. Typical battery life in a car is 3 - 4 years.

SL.
  #26  
Old February 15th 06, 12:48 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

Mount an Uninterruptible Power supply in the trunk, and give access to the
12volt connections inside. Charge it off the electrical system, using a
reverse current diode. When you get into a pinch, bypass the diode, and
start your car. It also provides full time 110 volt ac for your laptop,
coolers, or TV.

Al


"Sir Lex" > wrote in message
...
> Sam Nickaby wrote:
>> I have been thinking of a good way to prevent stranding
>> myself from a dead battery. It happened twice. Once at a
>> beach from leaving my lights on. The other was at a college
>> campus which the stereo and the dome light ran down the
>> battery. Unlike the beach, the college campus have lots of
>> helpful students with beat up cars that have jumper cables.
>> Now, I have a new idea. Once my battery runs dry, I
>> remove my alternator belt and wrap a rope around the
>> alternator pulley. I then pull the rope so it'll turn 10
>> revolutions per pull. I keep doing this for about 20 times.
>>
>> What is the possibility that this will supply enough charge
>> to start the car. If not, can somebody think of a clever idea
>> to start an automatic?
>>
>> Thanks
>>

>
> You would have more chance of winning the lottery... without buying a
> ticket. :-)
>
> If you're that concerned about it, as other's have said, investigate
> buying a booster pack. Another more expensive option is to have a dual
> battery system setup, giving the starter motor it's own battery... though
> that would be the first time I'd ever heard of such a setup in a honda
> civic. :-)
>
> <http://www.tjmproducts.com.au/dual_batteries.html>
>
> There's the kill switch option, which if installed properly should cut
> power to everything in the car. This also acts as an immobilizer, until
> your potential thief finds the switch (though I cant vouch for the
> intelligence of all car thieves.) The downside to that is if you have a
> security coded radio you'd have to put in the code every time you start
> the car.
>
> Of course by far the easiest and cheapest option is not to run significant
> amounts of electrics when your motor isn't running.
>
> How long did you have your stereo and cabin light on for when they ran
> down the battery? You should've been able to have the stereo going and
> your cabin light on for a few hours without any problems. If it was a
> relatively short period of time, you may need to look at purchasing a new
> battery. Typical battery life in a car is 3 - 4 years.
>
> SL.



  #27  
Old February 15th 06, 01:12 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:48:59 -0800, Al > wrote:


>Mount an Uninterruptible Power supply in the trunk, and give access to the
>12volt connections inside. Charge it off the electrical system, using a
>reverse current diode. When you get into a pinch, bypass the diode, and
>start your car. It also provides full time 110 volt ac for your laptop,
>coolers, or TV.


That should be good entertainment. Better keep a fire extinguisher in your
car when 100 amps is running through the power cable and the little gell
cell in the UPS.
  #28  
Old February 15th 06, 01:14 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.



Al wrote:

> Mount an Uninterruptible Power supply in the trunk, and give access to the
> 12volt connections inside. Charge it off the electrical system, using a
> reverse current diode. When you get into a pinch, bypass the diode, and
> start your car. It also provides full time 110 volt ac for your laptop,
> coolers, or TV.


That is truly one of the most daft suggestions I've ever seen !

Congratulations !

Graham

  #29  
Old February 15th 06, 01:31 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 00:12:15 GMT, AZ Nomad >
wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:48:59 -0800, Al > wrote:
>
>
>>Mount an Uninterruptible Power supply in the trunk, and give access to the
>>12volt connections inside. Charge it off the electrical system, using a
>>reverse current diode. When you get into a pinch, bypass the diode, and
>>start your car. It also provides full time 110 volt ac for your laptop,
>>coolers, or TV.

>
>That should be good entertainment. Better keep a fire extinguisher in your
>car when 100 amps is running through the power cable and the little gell
>cell in the UPS.


I keep a 12 volt DC *jump kit* in the back of my car ( rear floor )
and it isn't hooked up to anything but has integrated battery cables.
So since my starter needs 200+ amps to kick over my engine, I don't
think 100 amps is going to blow up the gel cell.

On a related note, I've never used it to jump start a vehicle. It is
really there as a huge backup battery in case I ever need to recharge
my cell phone and I don't want to or cannot run my engine.

It's a 17.5 ampere/hour gel cell. 100 amps won't blow up a gel cell.
In fact, gel cells are used to power golf carts and electric
wheelchairs.

Lg

  #30  
Old February 15th 06, 01:37 AM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

Battery switch and another battery for spare. Works in the marine
environment pretty well. or as mentioned a booster pack, or if you have the
time a solar charger.


"Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Al wrote:
>
>> Mount an Uninterruptible Power supply in the trunk, and give access to
>> the
>> 12volt connections inside. Charge it off the electrical system, using a
>> reverse current diode. When you get into a pinch, bypass the diode, and
>> start your car. It also provides full time 110 volt ac for your laptop,
>> coolers, or TV.

>
> That is truly one of the most daft suggestions I've ever seen !
>
> Congratulations !
>
> Graham
>



 




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