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Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 6th 13, 11:02 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
MoPar Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 660
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

I finally found out where my power-steering fluid was leaking from.

After taking off the front plastic facia (which was easier to do than I
thought), the leak was easy to see.

The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long piece of
aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted sort-of under and
in front of the radiator. Rubber hoses connect to this pipe on the
driver's side using simple hose-clamps.

The pipe is welded to a pair of brackets that are bolted to the
underside of the radiator bulkhead. A small radiator (tranny cooler?)
is mounted to the front side of the radiator, directly behind this
cooler-pipe. The inlet and outlet for this small rad are located on the
bottom side. The PS cooler pipe was in direct contact with one of the
inlet/outlet nuts of this small rad.

One of the brackets must have been bent slightly during a minor
front-end impact with either a snow bank or parking curb, causing the
pipe to remain in constant contact with the nut. This caused a hole to
be worn into the pipe, causing the leak.

Here's what this cooler-pipe looks like:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!n0FBZy3hOwvBQnTNBC8+Q~~60_35.JPG

Apparently, that one was being sold on ebay for $40 - and it was used.
I see that someone sold a new one last year for $30. Most places seem
to be selling this for $50 - $75.

I could probably make one, it looks so simple in design.

Since it's the fall and the temps are going to get cold, I could
probably just bypass this thing by connecting the hoses together.

But I wonder if the power steering fluid gets so hot that you really
need this stupid piece of pipe?
Ads
  #2  
Old October 6th 13, 11:56 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Geoff Welsh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 171
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

MoPar Man wrote:
> I finally found out where my power-steering fluid was leaking from.
>
> After taking off the front plastic facia (which was easier to do than I
> thought), the leak was easy to see.
>
> The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long piece of
> aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted sort-of under and
> in front of the radiator. Rubber hoses connect to this pipe on the
> driver's side using simple hose-clamps.
>
> The pipe is welded to a pair of brackets that are bolted to the
> underside of the radiator bulkhead. A small radiator (tranny cooler?)
> is mounted to the front side of the radiator, directly behind this
> cooler-pipe. The inlet and outlet for this small rad are located on the
> bottom side. The PS cooler pipe was in direct contact with one of the
> inlet/outlet nuts of this small rad.
>
> One of the brackets must have been bent slightly during a minor
> front-end impact with either a snow bank or parking curb, causing the
> pipe to remain in constant contact with the nut. This caused a hole to
> be worn into the pipe, causing the leak.
>
> Here's what this cooler-pipe looks like:
>
> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!n0FBZy3hOwvBQnTNBC8+Q~~60_35.JPG
>
> Apparently, that one was being sold on ebay for $40 - and it was used.
> I see that someone sold a new one last year for $30. Most places seem
> to be selling this for $50 - $75.
>
> I could probably make one, it looks so simple in design.
>
> Since it's the fall and the temps are going to get cold, I could
> probably just bypass this thing by connecting the hoses together.
>
> But I wonder if the power steering fluid gets so hot that you really
> need this stupid piece of pipe?


Only on the skid-pad slalom...however, I did once see a TSB, on a
Chrysler, in fact (Grand Caravan??) ...that had ADDING just such a pipe
to the PS system to cure a perceived noise problem/complaint from
customers.

That doesn't mean your car would make noise without it, but it does lead
rise to the question of whether it just /cools/ the fluid or somehow
also helps the system by increasing the travel-path and volume of fluid
inside.

GW
(insert week-long useless argument over fluid dynamics here....lol)
  #3  
Old October 7th 13, 08:26 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Ashton Crusher[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,874
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 18:02:06 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:

>I finally found out where my power-steering fluid was leaking from.
>
>After taking off the front plastic facia (which was easier to do than I
>thought), the leak was easy to see.
>
>The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long piece of
>aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted sort-of under and
>in front of the radiator. Rubber hoses connect to this pipe on the
>driver's side using simple hose-clamps.
>
>The pipe is welded to a pair of brackets that are bolted to the
>underside of the radiator bulkhead. A small radiator (tranny cooler?)
>is mounted to the front side of the radiator, directly behind this
>cooler-pipe. The inlet and outlet for this small rad are located on the
>bottom side. The PS cooler pipe was in direct contact with one of the
>inlet/outlet nuts of this small rad.
>
>One of the brackets must have been bent slightly during a minor
>front-end impact with either a snow bank or parking curb, causing the
>pipe to remain in constant contact with the nut. This caused a hole to
>be worn into the pipe, causing the leak.
>
>Here's what this cooler-pipe looks like:
>
>http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!n0FBZy3hOwvBQnTNBC8+Q~~60_35.JPG
>
>Apparently, that one was being sold on ebay for $40 - and it was used.
>I see that someone sold a new one last year for $30. Most places seem
>to be selling this for $50 - $75.
>
>I could probably make one, it looks so simple in design.
>
>Since it's the fall and the temps are going to get cold, I could
>probably just bypass this thing by connecting the hoses together.
>
>But I wonder if the power steering fluid gets so hot that you really
>need this stupid piece of pipe?


Not having seen your cooler and the leaking spot my suggestion might
not work but it most likely could easily be fixed by simply putting a
piece of rubber over the hole and a hose clamp over that. Or cut out
a 6" length where the damage is and put an appropriate sized piece of
hydraulic hose in the gap secured with hose clamps.
  #4  
Old October 7th 13, 12:12 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Mr.E
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 00:26:24 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 18:02:06 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
>
>>I finally found out where my power-steering fluid was leaking from.
>>
>>After taking off the front plastic facia (which was easier to do than I
>>thought), the leak was easy to see.
>>
>>The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long piece of
>>aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted sort-of under and
>>in front of the radiator. Rubber hoses connect to this pipe on the
>>driver's side using simple hose-clamps.
>>
>>The pipe is welded to a pair of brackets that are bolted to the
>>underside of the radiator bulkhead. A small radiator (tranny cooler?)
>>is mounted to the front side of the radiator, directly behind this
>>cooler-pipe. The inlet and outlet for this small rad are located on the
>>bottom side. The PS cooler pipe was in direct contact with one of the
>>inlet/outlet nuts of this small rad.
>>
>>One of the brackets must have been bent slightly during a minor
>>front-end impact with either a snow bank or parking curb, causing the
>>pipe to remain in constant contact with the nut. This caused a hole to
>>be worn into the pipe, causing the leak.
>>
>>Here's what this cooler-pipe looks like:
>>
>>http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!n0FBZy3hOwvBQnTNBC8+Q~~60_35.JPG
>>
>>Apparently, that one was being sold on ebay for $40 - and it was used.
>>I see that someone sold a new one last year for $30. Most places seem
>>to be selling this for $50 - $75.
>>
>>I could probably make one, it looks so simple in design.
>>
>>Since it's the fall and the temps are going to get cold, I could
>>probably just bypass this thing by connecting the hoses together.
>>
>>But I wonder if the power steering fluid gets so hot that you really
>>need this stupid piece of pipe?

>
>Not having seen your cooler and the leaking spot my suggestion might
>not work but it most likely could easily be fixed by simply putting a
>piece of rubber over the hole and a hose clamp over that. Or cut out
>a 6" length where the damage is and put an appropriate sized piece of
>hydraulic hose in the gap secured with hose clamps.


Take it to a competent welder and have them weld the hole closed.
Flush the pipe and reinstall.
--
Mr.E
  #5  
Old October 7th 13, 02:15 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,686
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

On 10/07/2013 03:26 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 18:02:06 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
>
>> I finally found out where my power-steering fluid was leaking from.
>>
>> After taking off the front plastic facia (which was easier to do than I
>> thought), the leak was easy to see.
>>
>> The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long piece of
>> aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted sort-of under and
>> in front of the radiator. Rubber hoses connect to this pipe on the
>> driver's side using simple hose-clamps.
>>
>> The pipe is welded to a pair of brackets that are bolted to the
>> underside of the radiator bulkhead. A small radiator (tranny cooler?)
>> is mounted to the front side of the radiator, directly behind this
>> cooler-pipe. The inlet and outlet for this small rad are located on the
>> bottom side. The PS cooler pipe was in direct contact with one of the
>> inlet/outlet nuts of this small rad.
>>
>> One of the brackets must have been bent slightly during a minor
>> front-end impact with either a snow bank or parking curb, causing the
>> pipe to remain in constant contact with the nut. This caused a hole to
>> be worn into the pipe, causing the leak.
>>
>> Here's what this cooler-pipe looks like:
>>
>> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!n0FBZy3hOwvBQnTNBC8+Q~~60_35.JPG
>>
>> Apparently, that one was being sold on ebay for $40 - and it was used.
>> I see that someone sold a new one last year for $30. Most places seem
>> to be selling this for $50 - $75.
>>
>> I could probably make one, it looks so simple in design.
>>
>> Since it's the fall and the temps are going to get cold, I could
>> probably just bypass this thing by connecting the hoses together.
>>
>> But I wonder if the power steering fluid gets so hot that you really
>> need this stupid piece of pipe?

>
> Not having seen your cooler and the leaking spot my suggestion might
> not work but it most likely could easily be fixed by simply putting a
> piece of rubber over the hole and a hose clamp over that. Or cut out
> a 6" length where the damage is and put an appropriate sized piece of
> hydraulic hose in the gap secured with hose clamps.
>


Or removing the cooler and soldering the hole shut, either by just
filling it with solder, or soldering a piece of thin sheet over top of
the damaged section.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  #6  
Old October 7th 13, 03:52 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
MoPar Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 660
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

Nate Nagel, while unnecessarily full-quoting, wrote:

> >> The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long
> >> piece of aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted...


> > most likely could easily be fixed by simply putting a piece of
> > rubber over the hole and a hose clamp over that. Or cut out
> > a 6" length where the damage is and put an appropriate sized
> > piece of hydraulic hose in the gap secured with hose clamps.


I would have to cut the pipe (where the hole is) to be able to put a
short length of hose over the hole because the brackets are welded to
the pipe and I can't just slide a piece of hose down to where the hole
is.

I like this idea because this cooler-pipe is on the low pressure side
(PS-fluid flows from this pipe into the reservoir).

Local chrysler dealer wants about $120 for this pipe (P/N 4782260AD).
There apparently is something called a "cooler kit" (P/N 5010360ac) that
the dealer wants $370 for - he can't tell me just what this kit has that
makes it so expensive. It could be an actual radiator (pipe with fins).

> Or removing the cooler and soldering the hole shut,


This is an aluminum pipe. I can't solder aluminum - can you?
  #7  
Old October 7th 13, 05:36 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Brent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,430
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

On 2013-10-07, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 18:02:06 -0400, MoPar Man > wrote:
>
>>I finally found out where my power-steering fluid was leaking from.
>>
>>After taking off the front plastic facia (which was easier to do than I
>>thought), the leak was easy to see.
>>
>>The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long piece of
>>aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted sort-of under and
>>in front of the radiator. Rubber hoses connect to this pipe on the
>>driver's side using simple hose-clamps.
>>
>>The pipe is welded to a pair of brackets that are bolted to the
>>underside of the radiator bulkhead. A small radiator (tranny cooler?)
>>is mounted to the front side of the radiator, directly behind this
>>cooler-pipe. The inlet and outlet for this small rad are located on the
>>bottom side. The PS cooler pipe was in direct contact with one of the
>>inlet/outlet nuts of this small rad.
>>
>>One of the brackets must have been bent slightly during a minor
>>front-end impact with either a snow bank or parking curb, causing the
>>pipe to remain in constant contact with the nut. This caused a hole to
>>be worn into the pipe, causing the leak.
>>
>>Here's what this cooler-pipe looks like:
>>
>>http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDgwMA==/$(KGrHqV,!n0FBZy3hOwvBQnTNBC8+Q~~60_35.JPG
>>
>>Apparently, that one was being sold on ebay for $40 - and it was used.
>>I see that someone sold a new one last year for $30. Most places seem
>>to be selling this for $50 - $75.
>>
>>I could probably make one, it looks so simple in design.
>>
>>Since it's the fall and the temps are going to get cold, I could
>>probably just bypass this thing by connecting the hoses together.
>>
>>But I wonder if the power steering fluid gets so hot that you really
>>need this stupid piece of pipe?


> Not having seen your cooler and the leaking spot my suggestion might
> not work but it most likely could easily be fixed by simply putting a
> piece of rubber over the hole and a hose clamp over that. Or cut out
> a 6" length where the damage is and put an appropriate sized piece of
> hydraulic hose in the gap secured with hose clamps.


The hose clamp idea won't likely work... maybe if it is on the return
side but still likely no. When I kludged a leaking PS line on a beater
because it was too difficult to replace but the damaged area was
accessible I used brake line as close to the diameter of the PS tube as
possible (3/8" brake line for a 10mm PS tube) and brake fittings flaring
the tubes so it all connected together. This held just fine.

However, I notice it is Al. I don't think brake line flares will form
correctly for Al tube. May require an appropiate flaring tool and
fittings for the material.

But looking at that part, I doubt it is worth the trouble over buying a
new one or just going the self serve salavage yard.




  #8  
Old October 7th 13, 06:15 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Steve W.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,161
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

MoPar Man wrote:
> Nate Nagel, while unnecessarily full-quoting, wrote:
>
>>>> The so-called power-steering fluid cooler is just a 4-ft long
>>>> piece of aluminum tubing bent into a long U shape and mounted...

>
>>> most likely could easily be fixed by simply putting a piece of
>>> rubber over the hole and a hose clamp over that. Or cut out
>>> a 6" length where the damage is and put an appropriate sized
>>> piece of hydraulic hose in the gap secured with hose clamps.

>
> I would have to cut the pipe (where the hole is) to be able to put a
> short length of hose over the hole because the brackets are welded to
> the pipe and I can't just slide a piece of hose down to where the hole
> is.
>
> I like this idea because this cooler-pipe is on the low pressure side
> (PS-fluid flows from this pipe into the reservoir).
>
> Local chrysler dealer wants about $120 for this pipe (P/N 4782260AD).
> There apparently is something called a "cooler kit" (P/N 5010360ac) that
> the dealer wants $370 for - he can't tell me just what this kit has that
> makes it so expensive. It could be an actual radiator (pipe with fins).


Yep, it's a small finned unit like the oil cooler.
Hose will work. So would simply bending up a new one using steel brake
line (done a bunch on different vehicles)and mounting it with nylon tube
clamps.


>
>> Or removing the cooler and soldering the hole shut,

>
> This is an aluminum pipe. I can't solder aluminum - can you?


As a matter of fact, yes I can. So can most radiator and refrigeration
shops. You could as well IF you have a good torch and the proper rod.


--
Steve W.
  #9  
Old October 7th 13, 06:29 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
MoPar Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 660
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

Brent wrote:

> The hose clamp idea won't likely work... maybe if it is on the
> return side but still likely no.


?

You're saying that even if the cooler is on the low-pressure (return)
side, bridging the leak with a hose would likely not work?

From the factory service manual:

----------------------
POWER STEERING FLUID COOLER

DESCRIPTION

All models of this vehicle are equipped with a cooler for the power
steering system fluid (Fig. 1). The power steering fluid cooler is
located at the front of the vehicle. It is mounted to the radiator
lower support just forward of the air-conditioning condenser and just
rearward of the front fascia (Fig. 1). The cooler is positioned so it is
in the air flow through the front fascia of the vehicle.

OPERATION

The purpose of the cooler is to keep the temperature of the power
steering system fluid from rising to a level that would affect the
performance of the power steering system.

The cooler used on this vehicle is referred to as a fluid-to-air type
cooler. This means that the air flow across the tubes of the cooler is
used to extract the heat from the cooler which it has absorbed from the
power steering fluid flowing through it. The cooler is placed in series
with the power steering fluid return line, between the steering gear and
the power steering fluid reservoir. This lowers the temperature of the
power steering fluid prior to it entering the power steering fluid
reservoir where it is resupplied to the power steering pump.
----------------------

The two hoses connected to this aluminum cooler/pipe are 3/8" ID and are
secured using ordinary spring clamps (not screw clamps). Clearly we are
not talking about high pressure. The pipe is either painted or anodized
with a black coating, and is expanded to about 5/8" OD for it's entire
length except for the inlet and outlet, which is reduced in size to
accomodate the inlet and outlet hoses.

So I plan on cutting this aluminum pipe where it was worn through so I
can insert a short length of hose to effectively repair the leak. The
only hose that I was able to easily buy locally was 1/2" heater hose
that with some effort will stretch over the 5/8" pipe. This hose only
needs to be 2" long.

I've been replacing the leaking power steering fluid with ATF+4
transmission fluid (because I've found some TSB's that say it's ok to do
that) - but I don't know how compatible heater-hose is with transmission
fluid. Anyone know?

> But looking at that part, I doubt it is worth the trouble over
> buying a new one or just going the self serve salavage yard.


Sorry - I'm not paying $120 for a 4-ft long piece of aluminum pipe.
  #10  
Old October 7th 13, 07:05 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler,rec.autos.tech
Brent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,430
Default Chrysler 300m -> do you really need a power-steering fluid cooler?

On 2013-10-07, MoPar Man > wrote:
> Brent wrote:
>
>> The hose clamp idea won't likely work... maybe if it is on the
>> return side but still likely no.

>
> ?
>
> You're saying that even if the cooler is on the low-pressure (return)
> side, bridging the leak with a hose would likely not work?


The car I dealt with rusted PS lines on didn't take to such repairs on
either side of the system.

If you already know how to fix it, then fix it. Or this some stupid test
of how well people on usenet know each particular make model and year?

If it's held with hoses and spring clamps from the factory then it might
work. But keep in mind you have no flare on your tube ends to retain the
clamp or make for a good seal. You're relying entirely on the
compression of the clamp to do both jobs. Maybe that's enough maybe it's
not. Sometimes you're talking non-trivial pressure sometimes practically
nothing on the return side. Return hoses are spec'd at 250psi working
pressure, so the possible range is probably something like 0 to
80psi or so...

Found some references to back up the above:
http://standards.sae.org/j189_201207/
http://gatesupdates.com/common/downl...n/428-7172.pdf
"The pressure line must withstand pressures ranging from 800 to 1,300
psi. The return line normally carries no more than 50 psi."




 




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