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What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 seriesBMW trunk wiring looms?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 14th 13, 03:54 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
Bimmer Owner
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Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 seriesBMW trunk wiring looms?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:18:22 -0700, wrote:
> Instead of using decent wire suited to the application,
> the Europeans chose to use some green hippie wire,
> that not only costs more, but fails.....


Maybe. But why does it always fail at the same spot.

That can't be due to the poor choice of insulation, can it?

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  #3  
Old March 14th 13, 04:36 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
jim beam[_4_]
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Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 seriesBMW trunk wiring looms?

On 03/14/2013 08:23 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Bimmer Owner > wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:18:22 -0700, wrote:
>>> Instead of using decent wire suited to the application,
>>> the Europeans chose to use some green hippie wire,
>>> that not only costs more, but fails.....

>>
>> Maybe. But why does it always fail at the same spot.

>
> Because if you make a loop and you open and close it over and over again,
> it will fail in the center of the loop where the angle of the movement is
> greatest.
>
>> That can't be due to the poor choice of insulation, can it?

>
> No, as you'll notice the conductors are breaking too, not just the wire.
> So it's a poor choice of insulation AND stranding.


respectfully and completely disagree on that. the stranding is
perfectly fine if the insulation remains intact. once the insulation
cracks, then you have substantial strain concentrated in just one spot.
even fine wire high count stranding will break if subject to such a
failure.

the fix is both better wire insulation that doesn't become brittle, AND
re-routing to avoid the elbow bend. then you can keep using cheap wire
and don't need to spend money on the expensive hi-flex stuff.


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  #4  
Old March 14th 13, 05:34 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
Mark[_1_]
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Posts: 63
Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 series BMWtrunk wiring looms?


>
> the fix is both better wire insulation that doesn't become brittle, AND
> re-routing to avoid the elbow bend. *then you can keep using cheap wire
> and don't need to spend money on the expensive hi-flex stuff.
>
> --



i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
toyota camry.

Mark
  #5  
Old March 14th 13, 06:11 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 series BMWtrunk wiring looms?

On Mar 14, 10:54*am, Bimmer Owner > wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:18:22 -0700, wrote:
> > Instead of using decent wire suited to the application,
> > the Europeans chose to use some green hippie wire,
> > that not only costs more, but fails.....

>
> Maybe. But why does it always fail at the same spot.
>
> That can't be due to the poor choice of insulation, can it?


Of course it can be. If BMW uses some hippie green
insulation that isn't as pliable as other insulation, then
the insulation will crack. We can't do a forensic investigation
from some pics that don't show how it's mounted, how
much it moves, what tensions are on it, etc. But I'd bet
that area has more bending, tension, etc than the rest of
it.
  #6  
Old March 15th 13, 01:16 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
Nate Nagel[_2_]
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Posts: 4,686
Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 seriesBMW trunk wiring looms?

On 03/14/2013 01:11 PM, wrote:
> On Mar 14, 10:54 am, Bimmer Owner > wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 06:18:22 -0700, wrote:
>>> Instead of using decent wire suited to the application,
>>> the Europeans chose to use some green hippie wire,
>>> that not only costs more, but fails.....

>>
>> Maybe. But why does it always fail at the same spot.
>>
>> That can't be due to the poor choice of insulation, can it?

>
> Of course it can be. If BMW uses some hippie green
> insulation that isn't as pliable as other insulation, then
> the insulation will crack. We can't do a forensic investigation
> from some pics that don't show how it's mounted, how
> much it moves, what tensions are on it, etc. But I'd bet
> that area has more bending, tension, etc than the rest of
> it.
>


Yes, that much is true. Someone had mentioned that having the wire in
that area flex in torsion would be preferable and I agree with that
statement as well. Would be simple to have accomplished by having the
hole in the body offset by a few inches (actually as far as possible
would be preferable) from the hole in the trunk lid, and using a
correspondingly longer rubber boot. then most of the flexing of the
wire as the trunk lid opens and closes would result in a slight twisting
of the wire rather than a sharp bending.

The same holds true for wiring running from a body pillar into a door
e.g. for power mirrors, windows, speakers, etc.

nate

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  #7  
Old March 15th 13, 11:16 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
amdx
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Posts: 1
Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 seriesBMW trunk wiring looms?

On 3/14/2013 11:34 AM, Mark wrote:
>
>>
>> the fix is both better wire insulation that doesn't become brittle, AND
>> re-routing to avoid the elbow bend. then you can keep using cheap wire
>> and don't need to spend money on the expensive hi-flex stuff.
>>
>> --

>
>
> i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
> toyota camry.
>
> Mark


Ya, how many "door handles" have broke on you?
I'm up to 6 on 4 vehicles, 4 inside and 2 outside.
I haven't rewarded them for their poor build.
I drill and epoxy two steel pins on the inside handles and
put two stainless steel flat head screws in the outside handles.
Haven't had any repairs break. I'd almost recommend my outside door
handle repair as preventative.
Mikek

If you're going to blame me for being rough on door handles, I'll
have to say it must be hereditary and spread by marriage. All 4
in my family has broke one and my son-in-law.


  #8  
Old March 15th 13, 11:36 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
Mark[_1_]
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Posts: 63
Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 series BMWtrunk wiring looms?

-
>
> > i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
> > toyota camry.

>
> > Mark

>
> * *Ya, how many "door handles" have broke on you?


snip

my wife broke the inside passenger side..

i've learned to use only two fingers to pull on the handles, don't
grab them.

i agree they are not very rugged...
but it's about the only flaw i've found with that car (knock knock)

besides the rear door wires which i understand like the BMW is a very
common spot for wires to break on this car...

and interestingly the rear door is used maybe 1/100 of the time
compared to the drivers door so you would have to think there is
something "special" about the way those particular wires are designed
and/or built to make them break before the drivers door wires break

Mark





  #9  
Old March 16th 13, 03:21 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair,alt.home.repair,alt.autos.bmw
amdx[_2_]
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Posts: 2
Default What is the root of this BMW design flaw in all 3,5,7 seriesBMW trunk wiring looms?

On 3/15/2013 5:36 PM, Mark wrote:
> -
>>
>>> i had the exact same thing happen in the rear door wiring in a 95
>>> toyota camry.

>>
>>> Mark

>>
>> Ya, how many "door handles" have broke on you?

>
> snip
>
> my wife broke the inside passenger side..
>
> i've learned to use only two fingers to pull on the handles, don't
> grab them.
>
> i agree they are not very rugged...
> but it's about the only flaw i've found with that car (knock knock)


The inside handles seem to be designed to break at the 8 to 10 year
mark. The have a slot molded in to the highest stress point, I might add
I don't see any reason for it. Other than to help the dealer sell
replacement handles.
Other than the door handles I'm a happy Toyota owner, had a Camry,
have a T-100 still a sharp looking truck, have a Lexus and an Avalon.
My wife is a persistent patient shopper, and will wait until she finds
a great used car at a steal.
Mikek

 




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