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Headline I thought I'd never see



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 22nd 12, 04:07 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.honda
jim beam[_4_]
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Posts: 3,204
Default Headline I thought I'd never see

On 03/21/2012 07:49 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In >, jim >
> wrote:
>
>>> Hey, Honda--bring out something that absolutely KILLS the Hyundai/Kia
>>> thing. Open the curtains in September and show us a Civic and Accord
>>> that slay Hyundai/Kia right where they stand, products that bury the
>>> competition so far down they can't get back up.
>>>
>>> And then back it up. Walk the walk. Show us not only that you CAN do
>>> it, but that you WILL do it.
>>>
>>> holding my breath--not.

>>
>> the accord still retains some useful features

>
> would that include the V6 engine feature where it burns up spark plugs
> in one of the cylinders every few hundred miles?


why, of course! it' keeps technicians in work and stimulates the spark
plug industry!


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
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  #12  
Old March 22nd 12, 04:18 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.honda
jim beam[_4_]
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Posts: 3,204
Default Headline I thought I'd never see

On 03/21/2012 07:48 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In >, jim >
> wrote:
>
>>> holding my breath--not.

>>
>> oh, and the cross-tour???? seriously, if honda's u.s. management talked
>> japan into that piece of garbage, it's because the former g.m. execs
>> honda thought they'd hired are in reality the g.m. aztec team still
>> working for g.m. in a sabotage role.

>
> To put that into context, the very same Honda US management team back in
> the mid-90s told Honda Japan very specifically that they did NOT want
> the CR-V--said "that ain't no SUV, that's some girlie thing nobody'd
> ever want to buy". They probably got confused by the lack of locking
> transfer case and hubs. So, Japan went ahead and designed it without
> consideration for the US market.
>
> A year or two later, US Honda management decided they changed their
> mind. The car came out in 97 as a compromise vehicle, and took awhile
> to be what it should have been in the first place had that same US Honda
> management team not been such idiots.
>
> Now we have that CrossTour thingie, a horrible car that no one really
> wants except those same bonehead US managers.
>
> It's a familiar refrain. "We have no idea what we're doing it, but by
> God, we're going full speed ahead with it!"
>
> Car Guys vs. Bean Counters. Everyone should read it.


i'm actually serious when i use the word "sabotage". if you've been
watching the debacle that used to be called "nokia", and its [former
micro$oft exec] c.e.o.'s decision to walk away from everything that made
that company successful and throwing in with the micro$oft "smart phone"
system nobody wants, you have to wonder where his loyalties lie.
they're certainly not with nokia.

i say the same thing is being done with honda by the former g.m. execs
it hired. pretty much all of their decisions have been to undermine the
honda brand, destroy the concept of repeat business and destroy customer
loyalty. are they genuinely well intentioned but simply incompetent?
or are they still working for g.m. with a mission to undermine g.m.'s
competition?


--
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  #13  
Old March 22nd 12, 06:44 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.honda
JRStern
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Posts: 36
Default Headline I thought I'd never see

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:01:46 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>> Hey, Honda--bring back the NSX. Bring back a car that competes with
>> Scion, for God's sake. Anything.


Well that they are, if Jerry Seinfeld and Jay Leno can be believed.

>and at this point, something that competes with hyundai/kia - they're
>getting pretty good pretty damned fast.


Yep.

>tegger has been drinking the kool-aid if he believes the hype about
>honda being "focused on green". the 96-2000 civic hx outperforms the
>newer civic hybrids by quite some margin, and my 89 civic is more
>economical than the fit - i.o.w, their walk doesn't match their talk.


So it's newer safety regs that keep them from just re-issuing 1980s
frames with more modern engines?

I was actually just going to post about the late unlamented Accord V6
hybrid from a couple years back, how about just keeping up with the
Jones's with an Accord hybrid I4 - AND KNOCK 500 POUNDS OFF IT.

Hey, I actually saw two Volts on the road today, setting a new
American record.

J.

  #14  
Old March 22nd 12, 02:26 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.honda
Tegger[_3_]
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Posts: 667
Default Headline I thought I'd never see

JRStern > wrote in
:

>
> I was actually just going to post about the late unlamented Accord V6
> hybrid from a couple years back, how about just keeping up with the
> Jones's with an Accord hybrid I4 - AND KNOCK 500 POUNDS OFF IT.



That's exactly the point. Modern "safety" regulations -- especially the
newer side-impact regs -- make it difficult to impossible to build a light
car of any size.

Everything these days is 400-500 lbs heavier than the same size was 20
years ago, and all of that has gone into the structure, airbags, ABS, etc.

Take a look at the roof pillars, window sizes, and beltlines on a new car
and compare them against a 1992 model. The new cars have tree-trunks for
pillars, gun slits for windows, and beltlines up to your nose. Visibility
sucks.

You can have "safety", and you can have lightness, but you can't have both
unless you start using materials and processes that would put the price out
of reach of the average consumer.


--
Tegger
  #17  
Old March 22nd 12, 04:05 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.honda
Jim Yanik
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Posts: 1,773
Default Headline I thought I'd never see

jim beam > wrote in :

> On 03/21/2012 03:53 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In >, jim >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Hey, Honda--bring back the NSX. Bring back a car that competes with
>>>> Scion, for God's sake. Anything.
>>>
>>> and at this point, something that competes with hyundai/kia - they're
>>> getting pretty good pretty damned fast.

>>
>> no ****.
>>
>> Actually, "competes with" would not be good enough. It'd be too little,
>> too late.
>>
>> Hey, Honda--bring out something that absolutely KILLS the Hyundai/Kia
>> thing. Open the curtains in September and show us a Civic and Accord
>> that slay Hyundai/Kia right where they stand, products that bury the
>> competition so far down they can't get back up.
>>
>> And then back it up. Walk the walk. Show us not only that you CAN do
>> it, but that you WILL do it.
>>
>> holding my breath--not.

>
> the accord still retains some useful features - suspension - but it's
> grown just /way/ too big and unwieldy to be anything i'd ever buy*.
> they should have launched a larger model marque, like toyota did the
> avalon, if they wanted to sell something bigger. same with the now
> accord-sized civic. especially since the cars they sell under those
> names in other countries are much smaller than what they sell here.
>
>
> * i'd just go minivan, but even then, the current odyssey - reliability
> rip-offs aside - is too big. the original was just about right.
>
>


that is the problem with most car makers;
they keep making the models bigger,until they are no longer what was
intended for that model. they turn fun compact cars into stodgy full-size
cars. My first Accord('79)was smaller than my last Prelude('90).

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
  #18  
Old March 22nd 12, 04:07 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.honda
JRStern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 36
Default Headline I thought I'd never see

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:26:01 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
wrote:

>> I was actually just going to post about the late unlamented Accord V6
>> hybrid from a couple years back, how about just keeping up with the
>> Jones's with an Accord hybrid I4 - AND KNOCK 500 POUNDS OFF IT.

>
>
>That's exactly the point. Modern "safety" regulations -- especially the
>newer side-impact regs -- make it difficult to impossible to build a light
>car of any size.
>
>Everything these days is 400-500 lbs heavier than the same size was 20
>years ago, and all of that has gone into the structure, airbags, ABS, etc.
>
>Take a look at the roof pillars, window sizes, and beltlines on a new car
>and compare them against a 1992 model. The new cars have tree-trunks for
>pillars, gun slits for windows, and beltlines up to your nose. Visibility
>sucks.
>
>You can have "safety", and you can have lightness, but you can't have both
>unless you start using materials and processes that would put the price out
>of reach of the average consumer.


Well, but that's where the challenge is now for Honda or anybody.

I guess the question is to what degree the new standards make sense?
I've never heard that the old, ligher Hondas had any reputation as
death traps.

I believe the air bags are a total waste of money and can really only
be counterproductive, I guess with all the side airbags and crap that
might be a hundred pounds - and more than a thousand dollars, right
there. So if that's a sign, then probably 95% of the new standards
are garbage.

J.

 




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