Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated

Here's an interesting link that includes troubleshooting advice.
http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-16252.html

--Vic


On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:44:35 -0600, "Bob Shuman"
> wrote:

>Using simple math, to draw down a fully charged 100A-H capacity battery in
>168 hours (1 week) to the point where "the dash lights no longer illuminate"
>, you'd need to draw approximately 0.6A over that entire period of time.
>(The current drain wouldn't actually be constant over this period of time
>since the voltage would slowly drop from 13.2V, but gives a pretty good
>estimate for this purpose.) 0.6A (=600mA) at 12V is slightly more than 7W.
>
>I have not done the research, but would estimate the typical parasitic
>current at somewhere between 20 and 30mA (meaning a fully charged battery in
>good condition should last 10-20 weeks and still have "some" residual
>charge).
>
>As I've stated previously, there is definitely a problem here if the car
>won't start after one week. I'd personally think this is either caused by
>something that was left on, corroded electrical connections, a defective
>battery/distribution cable, a bad battery, or a bad alternator.
>
> Bob
>
>
>"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Well, I said I wouldn't get technical, and went for the easy solution.
>> But you might be surprised if you google this issue, as I was.
>> Maybe you can post here some of the values of parasitic draws and do
>> the math. Also troubleshooting methods (meters, pulling fuses, etc.)
>> I kind of suspect a short somewhere in my car, and generally agree
>> with what you've said. First time this has ever happened to me, and I
>> recall starting some previous cars just fine after they sat idle for
>> weeks.
>> But for now I'm fine just making sure I start it once a week.
>> If that changes or I track down a draw on the battery, I'll post that.
>>
>> --Vic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:11:46 -0600, "Bob Shuman"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Vic,
>>>
>>>I do not agree with your response. Saying that a week of non-use is
>>>enough
>>>time for a fully charged automotive battery to discharge to the point the
>>>OP
>>>describes is ludicrous. Do the math and figure out what parasitic current
>>>drain (the computer, vehicle alarm, radio clock, etc.) you would need to
>>>discharge a 100 amp-hour rated lead acid battery in 168 hours. (The 100
>>>A-H
>>>is a very conservative number for a small auto battery.)
>>>
>>>This vehicle has a definite problem. Either someone left something on (a
>>>glove box or trunk light for example) and it drained the battery, or the
>>>alternator is no longer working properly, or the battery connections
>>>aren't
>>>clean and tight, or the 3-month old battery is defective.
>>>
>>>We regularly don't drive two of our family vehicles very often ...
>>>typically
>>>they can sit for a month or so at a time and we've never had any problem
>>>starting them up. When I put one away for the winter in storage, I use a
>>>trickle charger to keep the battery topped off and that battery is now
>>>going
>>>on its eight year of use. (The key to battery longevity is a little luck
>>>and also keeping the battery fully charged so that it does not develop
>>>lead
>>>sulfation "disease".)
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
>>>news >>>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:47:24 -0800 (PST),
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I
>>>>>drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature
>>>>>just below freezing - not too bad really).
>>>>>
>>>>>This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No
>>>>>dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the
>>>>>battery was completely dead or even disconnected.
>>>>>
>>>>>I checked the battery connections, and they're good.
>>>>>
>>>>>Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do
>>>>>you think I need another battery or is it salvageable?
>>>>>
>>>>>Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump
>>>>>start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster
>>>>>to help me with this and future battery troubles.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for any tips!
>>>>
>>>> There is some constant draw on the battery of a modern car.
>>>> Won't get technical, but since I recently had this problem I found
>>>> many instances of batteries going dead in less than a week.
>>>> Best to start it every few days of so, and let it charge.
>>>> You can experiment with what works best.
>>>> The alternative is to buy a trickle charger and attach it when you
>>>> know the car will be idle for a while.
>>>> You are taking a chance of harming your dead battery by charging it
>>>> with the engine, as the alternator puts out high amps.
>>>> Best to slow charge at 2 amps with the charger. Check the water lever
>>>> afterward and add if needed.
>>>> Outside of having the battery tested at a shop with the right tools,
>>>> if it starts fine every few days it's probably ok.
>>>> Starting can actually draw plenty of current from it, so let it run at
>>>> least until the engine is warm if you're starting just to keep it
>>>> charged.
>>>> Works for me.
>>>> A week is about the limit I'll go without starting mine, but in cold
>>>> weather maybe 3 days. But I have a small cheapo battery.
>>>>
>>>> --Vic
>>>
>>>
>>
>

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:44:35 -0600, Bob Shuman wrote:

> Using simple math, to draw down a fully charged 100A-H capacity battery in
> 168 hours (1 week) to the point where "the dash lights no longer illuminate"
> , you'd need to draw approximately 0.6A over that entire period of time.
> (The current drain wouldn't actually be constant over this period of time
> since the voltage would slowly drop from 13.2V, but gives a pretty good
> estimate for this purpose.) 0.6A (=600mA) at 12V is slightly more than 7W.
>
> I have not done the research, but would estimate the typical parasitic
> current at somewhere between 20 and 30mA (meaning a fully charged battery in
> good condition should last 10-20 weeks and still have "some" residual
> charge).
>
> As I've stated previously, there is definitely a problem here if the car
> won't start after one week. I'd personally think this is either caused by
> something that was left on, corroded electrical connections, a defective
> battery/distribution cable, a bad battery, or a bad alternator.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Vic Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Well, I said I wouldn't get technical, and went for the easy solution.
>> But you might be surprised if you google this issue, as I was.
>> Maybe you can post here some of the values of parasitic draws and do
>> the math. Also troubleshooting methods (meters, pulling fuses, etc.)
>> I kind of suspect a short somewhere in my car, and generally agree
>> with what you've said. First time this has ever happened to me, and I
>> recall starting some previous cars just fine after they sat idle for
>> weeks.
>> But for now I'm fine just making sure I start it once a week.
>> If that changes or I track down a draw on the battery, I'll post that.
>>
>> --Vic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:11:46 -0600, "Bob Shuman"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Vic,
>>>
>>>I do not agree with your response. Saying that a week of non-use is
>>>enough
>>>time for a fully charged automotive battery to discharge to the point the
>>>OP
>>>describes is ludicrous. Do the math and figure out what parasitic current
>>>drain (the computer, vehicle alarm, radio clock, etc.) you would need to
>>>discharge a 100 amp-hour rated lead acid battery in 168 hours. (The 100
>>>A-H
>>>is a very conservative number for a small auto battery.)
>>>
>>>This vehicle has a definite problem. Either someone left something on (a
>>>glove box or trunk light for example) and it drained the battery, or the
>>>alternator is no longer working properly, or the battery connections
>>>aren't
>>>clean and tight, or the 3-month old battery is defective.
>>>
>>>We regularly don't drive two of our family vehicles very often ...
>>>typically
>>>they can sit for a month or so at a time and we've never had any problem
>>>starting them up. When I put one away for the winter in storage, I use a
>>>trickle charger to keep the battery topped off and that battery is now
>>>going
>>>on its eight year of use. (The key to battery longevity is a little luck
>>>and also keeping the battery fully charged so that it does not develop
>>>lead
>>>sulfation "disease".)
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
>>>news >>>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:47:24 -0800 (PST),
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I
>>>>>drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature
>>>>>just below freezing - not too bad really).
>>>>>
>>>>>This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No
>>>>>dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the
>>>>>battery was completely dead or even disconnected.
>>>>>
>>>>>I checked the battery connections, and they're good.
>>>>>
>>>>>Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do
>>>>>you think I need another battery or is it salvageable?
>>>>>
>>>>>Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump
>>>>>start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster
>>>>>to help me with this and future battery troubles.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for any tips!
>>>>
>>>> There is some constant draw on the battery of a modern car.
>>>> Won't get technical, but since I recently had this problem I found
>>>> many instances of batteries going dead in less than a week.
>>>> Best to start it every few days of so, and let it charge.
>>>> You can experiment with what works best.
>>>> The alternative is to buy a trickle charger and attach it when you
>>>> know the car will be idle for a while.
>>>> You are taking a chance of harming your dead battery by charging it
>>>> with the engine, as the alternator puts out high amps.
>>>> Best to slow charge at 2 amps with the charger. Check the water lever
>>>> afterward and add if needed.
>>>> Outside of having the battery tested at a shop with the right tools,
>>>> if it starts fine every few days it's probably ok.
>>>> Starting can actually draw plenty of current from it, so let it run at
>>>> least until the engine is warm if you're starting just to keep it
>>>> charged.
>>>> Works for me.
>>>> A week is about the limit I'll go without starting mine, but in cold
>>>> weather maybe 3 days. But I have a small cheapo battery.
>>>>

The obvious question is why did the old battery die?

On Nov 19, 12:47*pm, wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago.
>
> I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I
> drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature
> just below freezing - not too bad really).
>
> This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No
> dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the
> battery was completely dead or even disconnected.
>
> I checked the battery connections, and they're good.
>
> Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do
> you think I need another battery or is it salvageable?
>
> Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump
> start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster
> to help me with this and future battery troubles.
>
> Thanks for any tips!

What I do to keep my battery charged up on my '01 Dodge van since I
don't drive it much is go to Harbor Freight and buy a solar powered
charger that plugs into your cigarette lighter. It costs around $15
and has worked great for me that last 6 months I've used it. Before if
I didn't start my van every 3 weeks the battery would be dead.. Now I
leave it 4-5 weeks at a time and have no problems starting it.

Newer cars need to be started every couple of weeks because of the
computer.

"m6onz5a" > wrote in message
news:b0fda637-a067-48d5-977e-
What I do to keep my battery charged up on my '01 Dodge van since I
don't drive it much is go to Harbor Freight and buy a solar powered
charger that plugs into your cigarette lighter. It costs around $15
and has worked great for me that last 6 months I've used it. Before if
I didn't start my van every 3 weeks the battery would be dead.. Now I
leave it 4-5 weeks at a time and have no problems starting it.

Newer cars need to be started every couple of weeks because of the
computer.

********
I used to have a lot of trouble with my older Dodge van (as apparently did
the
person I bought it from).
Then I found that the very dim interior lights had been left on, and it was
all but
impossible to see.
I can now leave it a lot longer than 3 weeks without problems. The measured
drain when all systems are hibernating is in the order of 30 ma.

After some good folks suggested that I might have left something
turned on, I double checked and found out that I indeed left the
interior light on.

I went ahead and got a booster pack (Motomaster 500A) and successfully
jumpstarted the car. Left the engine running for 15 minutes, and now
it seems Ok.

Thanks to all those who took the time to give me these pointers.