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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
Hi,
My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature just below freezing - not too bad really). This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the battery was completely dead or even disconnected. I checked the battery connections, and they're good. Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster to help me with this and future battery troubles. Thanks for any tips! |
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#2
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
> wrote in message
... > Hi, > > My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. > > I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I > drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature > just below freezing - not too bad really). > > This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No > dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the > battery was completely dead or even disconnected. > > I checked the battery connections, and they're good. > > Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do > you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? Any battery, no matter how old or new can stop working. You could also have left on something like a small interior light, the glovebox light, trunk light, etc. A week is plenty of time for the smallest bulb to drain the battery. > Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump > start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster > to help me with this and future battery troubles. If I were you, I would get a battery charger (one that plugs into a wall outlet), and charge it up. If it won't take a charge, the battery is toast. If it will, have it tested to make sure it is good. With only being 3 months old, it should still have a valid warranty. |
#4
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
80Knight wrote:
> > wrote in message > ... >> Hi, >> >> My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. >> >> I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I >> drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature >> just below freezing - not too bad really). >> >> This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No >> dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the >> battery was completely dead or even disconnected. >> >> I checked the battery connections, and they're good. >> >> Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do >> you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? > > Any battery, no matter how old or new can stop working. You could also have > left on something like a small interior light, the glovebox light, trunk > light, etc. A week is plenty of time for the smallest bulb to drain the > battery. > >> Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump >> start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster >> to help me with this and future battery troubles. > > If I were you, I would get a battery charger (one that plugs into a wall > outlet), and charge it up. If it won't take a charge, the battery is toast. > If it will, have it tested to make sure it is good. With only being 3 > months old, it should still have a valid warranty. Agreed, but one more point. A fully discharged battery (if that is what happened) has mainly water for electrolyte, rather than the sulfuric-acid content of a fully charged battery. Thus a discharged battery can freeze. If possible, make sure the battery is not frozen before you try to charge it. If it has removable caps, you can inspect visually. You might wait until a time of day when the temperature has been above freezing for a few hours, or move the car to a warmer spot (garage?). If it has frozen, make sure the battery case is not cracked, and thus leaking electrolyte. -- NOTE: to reply, remove all punctuation from email name field Ned Forrester 508-289-2226 Applied Ocean Physics and Engineering Dept. Oceanographic Systems Lab http://adcp.whoi.edu/ Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole, MA 02543, USA |
#5
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
Comments are embedded below for your consideration.
Bob > wrote in message ... > Hi, > > My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. > > I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I > drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature > just below freezing - not too bad really). A week is not particularly long and the battery should still be charged assuming that:1) your charging/electrical system is working properly, 2) the battery is indeed still good and the connections are clean and tight, and 3) there was no accessory inadvertently left on to discharge the system. > This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No > dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the > battery was completely dead or even disconnected. > > I checked the battery connections, and they're good. I'd re-check those battery connections and if they are indeed clean and tight, then I'd use a voltmeter to check the battery state. Battery terminals can "look" great, but be highly oxidized so stop working. The battery can also have an internal defect that would cause the battery post to become open and cause the symptoms you are seeing. Lastly, the ground conenction from the negative terminal can be corroded at the engine block and/or the vehicle chassis. All need to be clean and tight and this is where the voltmeter will be helpful. The fact that you have no voltage/current now should make this a breeze to troubleshoot. If everything looks OK, then re-charge the battery and see if one of the interior lights, etc. somehow got left on and ran the battery down completely. If it charges up and nothing was left on, then check the alternator since it may have dies and you may have run the battery down before parking it a week ago. Do not attempt to start the car till you get the battery back up to near as full of a charge as possible. > Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do > you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? See comments above. > Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump > start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster > to help me with this and future battery troubles. Yes, you should be able to jump the vehicle, but need to figure out the problem first. Good luck. > Thanks for any tips! |
#6
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
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#7
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
Vic,
I do not agree with your response. Saying that a week of non-use is enough time for a fully charged automotive battery to discharge to the point the OP describes is ludicrous. Do the math and figure out what parasitic current drain (the computer, vehicle alarm, radio clock, etc.) you would need to discharge a 100 amp-hour rated lead acid battery in 168 hours. (The 100 A-H is a very conservative number for a small auto battery.) This vehicle has a definite problem. Either someone left something on (a glove box or trunk light for example) and it drained the battery, or the alternator is no longer working properly, or the battery connections aren't clean and tight, or the 3-month old battery is defective. We regularly don't drive two of our family vehicles very often ... typically they can sit for a month or so at a time and we've never had any problem starting them up. When I put one away for the winter in storage, I use a trickle charger to keep the battery topped off and that battery is now going on its eight year of use. (The key to battery longevity is a little luck and also keeping the battery fully charged so that it does not develop lead sulfation "disease".) Bob "Vic Smith" > wrote in message news > On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:47:24 -0800 (PST), > wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. >> >>I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I >>drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature >>just below freezing - not too bad really). >> >>This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No >>dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the >>battery was completely dead or even disconnected. >> >>I checked the battery connections, and they're good. >> >>Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do >>you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? >> >>Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump >>start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster >>to help me with this and future battery troubles. >> >>Thanks for any tips! > > There is some constant draw on the battery of a modern car. > Won't get technical, but since I recently had this problem I found > many instances of batteries going dead in less than a week. > Best to start it every few days of so, and let it charge. > You can experiment with what works best. > The alternative is to buy a trickle charger and attach it when you > know the car will be idle for a while. > You are taking a chance of harming your dead battery by charging it > with the engine, as the alternator puts out high amps. > Best to slow charge at 2 amps with the charger. Check the water lever > afterward and add if needed. > Outside of having the battery tested at a shop with the right tools, > if it starts fine every few days it's probably ok. > Starting can actually draw plenty of current from it, so let it run at > least until the engine is warm if you're starting just to keep it > charged. > Works for me. > A week is about the limit I'll go without starting mine, but in cold > weather maybe 3 days. But I have a small cheapo battery. > > --Vic |
#8
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
Well, I said I wouldn't get technical, and went for the easy solution.
But you might be surprised if you google this issue, as I was. Maybe you can post here some of the values of parasitic draws and do the math. Also troubleshooting methods (meters, pulling fuses, etc.) I kind of suspect a short somewhere in my car, and generally agree with what you've said. First time this has ever happened to me, and I recall starting some previous cars just fine after they sat idle for weeks. But for now I'm fine just making sure I start it once a week. If that changes or I track down a draw on the battery, I'll post that. --Vic On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:11:46 -0600, "Bob Shuman" > wrote: >Vic, > >I do not agree with your response. Saying that a week of non-use is enough >time for a fully charged automotive battery to discharge to the point the OP >describes is ludicrous. Do the math and figure out what parasitic current >drain (the computer, vehicle alarm, radio clock, etc.) you would need to >discharge a 100 amp-hour rated lead acid battery in 168 hours. (The 100 A-H >is a very conservative number for a small auto battery.) > >This vehicle has a definite problem. Either someone left something on (a >glove box or trunk light for example) and it drained the battery, or the >alternator is no longer working properly, or the battery connections aren't >clean and tight, or the 3-month old battery is defective. > >We regularly don't drive two of our family vehicles very often ... typically >they can sit for a month or so at a time and we've never had any problem >starting them up. When I put one away for the winter in storage, I use a >trickle charger to keep the battery topped off and that battery is now going >on its eight year of use. (The key to battery longevity is a little luck >and also keeping the battery fully charged so that it does not develop lead >sulfation "disease".) > > Bob > >"Vic Smith" > wrote in message >news >> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:47:24 -0800 (PST), >> wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. >>> >>>I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I >>>drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature >>>just below freezing - not too bad really). >>> >>>This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No >>>dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the >>>battery was completely dead or even disconnected. >>> >>>I checked the battery connections, and they're good. >>> >>>Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do >>>you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? >>> >>>Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump >>>start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster >>>to help me with this and future battery troubles. >>> >>>Thanks for any tips! >> >> There is some constant draw on the battery of a modern car. >> Won't get technical, but since I recently had this problem I found >> many instances of batteries going dead in less than a week. >> Best to start it every few days of so, and let it charge. >> You can experiment with what works best. >> The alternative is to buy a trickle charger and attach it when you >> know the car will be idle for a while. >> You are taking a chance of harming your dead battery by charging it >> with the engine, as the alternator puts out high amps. >> Best to slow charge at 2 amps with the charger. Check the water lever >> afterward and add if needed. >> Outside of having the battery tested at a shop with the right tools, >> if it starts fine every few days it's probably ok. >> Starting can actually draw plenty of current from it, so let it run at >> least until the engine is warm if you're starting just to keep it >> charged. >> Works for me. >> A week is about the limit I'll go without starting mine, but in cold >> weather maybe 3 days. But I have a small cheapo battery. >> >> --Vic > > |
#9
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
Using simple math, to draw down a fully charged 100A-H capacity battery in
168 hours (1 week) to the point where "the dash lights no longer illuminate" , you'd need to draw approximately 0.6A over that entire period of time. (The current drain wouldn't actually be constant over this period of time since the voltage would slowly drop from 13.2V, but gives a pretty good estimate for this purpose.) 0.6A (=600mA) at 12V is slightly more than 7W. I have not done the research, but would estimate the typical parasitic current at somewhere between 20 and 30mA (meaning a fully charged battery in good condition should last 10-20 weeks and still have "some" residual charge). As I've stated previously, there is definitely a problem here if the car won't start after one week. I'd personally think this is either caused by something that was left on, corroded electrical connections, a defective battery/distribution cable, a bad battery, or a bad alternator. Bob "Vic Smith" > wrote in message ... > Well, I said I wouldn't get technical, and went for the easy solution. > But you might be surprised if you google this issue, as I was. > Maybe you can post here some of the values of parasitic draws and do > the math. Also troubleshooting methods (meters, pulling fuses, etc.) > I kind of suspect a short somewhere in my car, and generally agree > with what you've said. First time this has ever happened to me, and I > recall starting some previous cars just fine after they sat idle for > weeks. > But for now I'm fine just making sure I start it once a week. > If that changes or I track down a draw on the battery, I'll post that. > > --Vic > > > > > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:11:46 -0600, "Bob Shuman" > > wrote: > >>Vic, >> >>I do not agree with your response. Saying that a week of non-use is >>enough >>time for a fully charged automotive battery to discharge to the point the >>OP >>describes is ludicrous. Do the math and figure out what parasitic current >>drain (the computer, vehicle alarm, radio clock, etc.) you would need to >>discharge a 100 amp-hour rated lead acid battery in 168 hours. (The 100 >>A-H >>is a very conservative number for a small auto battery.) >> >>This vehicle has a definite problem. Either someone left something on (a >>glove box or trunk light for example) and it drained the battery, or the >>alternator is no longer working properly, or the battery connections >>aren't >>clean and tight, or the 3-month old battery is defective. >> >>We regularly don't drive two of our family vehicles very often ... >>typically >>they can sit for a month or so at a time and we've never had any problem >>starting them up. When I put one away for the winter in storage, I use a >>trickle charger to keep the battery topped off and that battery is now >>going >>on its eight year of use. (The key to battery longevity is a little luck >>and also keeping the battery fully charged so that it does not develop >>lead >>sulfation "disease".) >> >> Bob >> >>"Vic Smith" > wrote in message >>news >>> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:47:24 -0800 (PST), >>> wrote: >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>>My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. >>>> >>>>I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I >>>>drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature >>>>just below freezing - not too bad really). >>>> >>>>This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No >>>>dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the >>>>battery was completely dead or even disconnected. >>>> >>>>I checked the battery connections, and they're good. >>>> >>>>Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do >>>>you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? >>>> >>>>Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump >>>>start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster >>>>to help me with this and future battery troubles. >>>> >>>>Thanks for any tips! >>> >>> There is some constant draw on the battery of a modern car. >>> Won't get technical, but since I recently had this problem I found >>> many instances of batteries going dead in less than a week. >>> Best to start it every few days of so, and let it charge. >>> You can experiment with what works best. >>> The alternative is to buy a trickle charger and attach it when you >>> know the car will be idle for a while. >>> You are taking a chance of harming your dead battery by charging it >>> with the engine, as the alternator puts out high amps. >>> Best to slow charge at 2 amps with the charger. Check the water lever >>> afterward and add if needed. >>> Outside of having the battery tested at a shop with the right tools, >>> if it starts fine every few days it's probably ok. >>> Starting can actually draw plenty of current from it, so let it run at >>> least until the engine is warm if you're starting just to keep it >>> charged. >>> Works for me. >>> A week is about the limit I'll go without starting mine, but in cold >>> weather maybe 3 days. But I have a small cheapo battery. >>> >>> --Vic >> >> > |
#10
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Battery Dead - Advice Appreciated
Hi Russell
A 3 month old battery is still a newborn.... I have a '95 Saturn SL1, the original AC Delco battery lasted just more than 5 years and in late 2000 I replaced it with an Energizer 700CCA battery... I test it and it's still fine after 8 years. The question is how long was the battery on the shelf before you bought it? ...more a rhetorical question. Usually a battery should go through a recharge or test when you buy it. If you drive your car more often and have a few trips of more than 1 hour, the alternator will help to recharge it. If you do not drive often, and your trips are very short, your battery has not a good opportunity to recharge. It's likely this battery was lower on charge being on the shelf for a while. Is there a manufactured date on it? When you checked the battery connections, did you remove them from the battery and clean both the cable connectors and battery terminals with a steel brush? Course Steel wool also helps to scrape off oxidation. Then make sure the cable go back on tightly. + then -/ground Yes it's a good idea to buy a automatic battery charger (auto shutoff). Get one with both a trickle charge and higher current (faster) charge.... these usually include a tester in the unit too. Cheers, Roger wrote: > Hi, > > My 1997 Saturn has a new battery installed 3 months ago. > > I don't drive much, and it started perfectly normally the last time I > drove it a week ago. (It's been a cold week with average temperature > just below freezing - not too bad really). > > This morning when I attempted to start it, it was completely dead. No > dashboard lights were on, and it's not making any noise - as if the > battery was completely dead or even disconnected. > > I checked the battery connections, and they're good. > > Question 1: Could a new battery drop dead like that so quickly? and do > you think I need another battery or is it salvageable? > > Question 2: Do you think using a battery booster pack will help jump > start it? I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy a booster > to help me with this and future battery troubles. > > Thanks for any tips! |
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