R-12 equivalent

I have an 85 RX-7 and the weather here has started to get quite hot. I
just put a belt on the AC compressor and tried it out, as I expected it
blows hot air (maybe a tiny bit cooler but still too hot). I've heard
mixed things about replacement refridgerants but thought I would see
what others think.

I'm pretty sure that there are no leaks since the compressor was
pressurized after over 10 years of not being used (the v-belt was
removed from the compressor). When it's hot I can release some of the
pressure and no liquid comes out. When cold a tiny bit of liquid also
comes out (appears to be r-12).


I found a site that seems legit, http://www.autorefrigerants.com/. I'm
not quite sure what I should get, ideally something on the cheaper side
and something that I'm not going to have to change the oil for. I dont
mind buying whatever fittings I need. Any suggestions or previous
experience?


Thanks,

David

I've used Freeze 12 with pretty good results in my 87.
"David Wahl" > wrote in message
...
> I have an 85 RX-7 and the weather here has started to get quite hot. I
> just put a belt on the AC compressor and tried it out, as I expected it
> blows hot air (maybe a tiny bit cooler but still too hot). I've heard
> mixed things about replacement refridgerants but thought I would see
> what others think.
>
> I'm pretty sure that there are no leaks since the compressor was
> pressurized after over 10 years of not being used (the v-belt was
> removed from the compressor). When it's hot I can release some of the
> pressure and no liquid comes out. When cold a tiny bit of liquid also
> comes out (appears to be r-12).
>
>
> I found a site that seems legit, http://www.autorefrigerants.com/. I'm
> not quite sure what I should get, ideally something on the cheaper side
> and something that I'm not going to have to change the oil for. I dont
> mind buying whatever fittings I need. Any suggestions or previous
> experience?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David

In article >,
David Wahl > wrote:

> I have an 85 RX-7 and the weather here has started to get quite hot. I
> just put a belt on the AC compressor and tried it out, as I expected it
> blows hot air (maybe a tiny bit cooler but still too hot). I've heard
> mixed things about replacement refridgerants but thought I would see
> what others think.
>
> I'm pretty sure that there are no leaks since the compressor was
> pressurized after over 10 years of not being used (the v-belt was
> removed from the compressor). When it's hot I can release some of the
> pressure and no liquid comes out. When cold a tiny bit of liquid also
> comes out (appears to be r-12).
>
>
> I found a site that seems legit, http://www.autorefrigerants.com/. I'm
> not quite sure what I should get, ideally something on the cheaper side
> and something that I'm not going to have to change the oil for. I dont
> mind buying whatever fittings I need. Any suggestions or previous
> experience?

Plain and simple, the stuff they're selling in NOT legal for use
in a mobile air conditioning system in the state of Wisconsin.

The procedures they describe are known as a "sham retrofit."

Did you just mix it with the current r-12 left in the system (if any)?


James wrote:
> I've used Freeze 12 with pretty good results in my 87.
> "David Wahl" > wrote in message
> ...
>

Neil Nelson wrote:

>
> Plain and simple, the stuff they're selling in NOT legal for use
> in a mobile air conditioning system in the state of Wisconsin.
>
> The procedures they describe are known as a "sham retrofit."

Well that sucks. Good thing I asked. Do you know of any legal
alternatives that will be relatively inexpensive (< $150)?

David Wahl wrote:

> Neil Nelson wrote:
>
>>
>> Plain and simple, the stuff they're selling in NOT legal for use in a
>> mobile air conditioning system in the state of Wisconsin.
>>
>> The procedures they describe are known as a "sham retrofit."
>
>
> Well that sucks. Good thing I asked. Do you know of any legal
> alternatives that will be relatively inexpensive (< $150)?

I think I may found an answer but I'll post here anyways. It seems that
the refrigerants that are illegal are the flammable ones. According to
freeze12's website it's not flammable (and also accepted by the epa).
Assuming it's legal it meets all my other criteria.

My theory is that if they can sell it across the counter & nobodys
getting excited (like the EPA) then it must be legal. Used up a few
cases of freeze 12 in the last few years, topping off and complete
refills, with good results. Don't know what it is but by looking at
it's name (chemically), it appears to be a molecule or 2 away from
r12. Good luck.

In article >,
David Wahl > wrote:

> Neil Nelson wrote:
>
> >
> > Plain and simple, the stuff they're selling in NOT legal for use
> > in a mobile air conditioning system in the state of Wisconsin.
> >
> > The procedures they describe are known as a "sham retrofit."
>
> Well that sucks. Good thing I asked. Do you know of any legal
> alternatives that will be relatively inexpensive (< $150)?

Here's a link to the EPA website, scroll down to the chart that
lists acceptable substitutes.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig.../macssubs.html

In article >,
David Wahl > wrote:

> David Wahl wrote:
>
> > Neil Nelson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Plain and simple, the stuff they're selling in NOT legal for use in a
> >> mobile air conditioning system in the state of Wisconsin.
> >>
> >> The procedures they describe are known as a "sham retrofit."
> >
> >
> > Well that sucks. Good thing I asked. Do you know of any legal
> > alternatives that will be relatively inexpensive (< $150)?
>
> I think I may found an answer but I'll post here anyways. It seems that
> the refrigerants that are illegal are the flammable ones. According to
> freeze12's website it's not flammable (and also accepted by the epa).
> Assuming it's legal it meets all my other criteria.

It's legal.

The trick is; finding a shop that is willing to service a system
that has been filled with it if/when service is needed.

David Wahl > writes:

> David Wahl wrote:
>
> > Neil Nelson wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Plain and simple, the stuff they're selling in NOT legal for use in
> >> a mobile air conditioning system in the state of Wisconsin.
> >>
> >> The procedures they describe are known as a "sham retrofit."
> > Well that sucks. Good thing I asked. Do you know of any legal
> > alternatives that will be relatively inexpensive (< $150)?
>
> I think I may found an answer but I'll post here anyways. It seems
> that the refrigerants that are illegal are the flammable
> ones. According to freeze12's website it's not flammable (and also
> accepted by the epa). Assuming it's legal it meets all my other
> criteria.

Try again. From their FAQ:

"Enviro-Safe(TM) Refrigerant is flammable to an open flame but has an
autoignition temperature of 1,585F ..."

There is a non-flammable R-12 alternative, R-406a aka Autofrost. There
are two drawbacks to this one:

1. Since it's actually a mixture of several different refrigerants,
you can't just add more to replace leaked refrigerant. You need
to evacuate the system and recharge from scratch.

2. From their Web site:

The US EPA is requiring special "uniquely threaded" fittings to be
attached to all R-12 service ports. These fittings provide threads
which are unique to each type of alternative refrigerant. These
fittings are required by law (only for the automotive sector, does
not apply to stationary equipment) for refrigerants which have
completed the entire EPA approval process and are listed as
"acceptable" for mobile A/C.

Anyway, you can check it out at www.autofrost.com.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.