Top 5 racing sims?

Where be LFS...

John Smith wrote:
> Here are my suggestions, even though a bit late..
>
> 1) rFactor- has just about every car you can imagine to race. Probably the
> most complete sim out to date.
>
> 2) NR2003- best NASCAR sim to date.
>
> 3) GTR2- probably the best driving physics in a sim.
>
> 4) GPL- dated, but still a charm. Once mastered nothing rewards the driver
> more than actually racing for real.
>
> 5) F1 2002- easiest F1 sim out of all of, but still a lot of fun.
>
> of course this is all subjective and just an opinon.
>
>

Dave F wrote:

> Jason, Remco, and Larry............I've got to be blunt and say........it's
> YOU.

Pretty much yeah. After all we're discussing opinions here for the
most part and not facts. There are certain facts that help me form my
opinion (like rFactor missing features that are in Simbin products and
being based entirely around amateur content) but it's my opinion and I
certainly wouldn't expect you to share it. Especially not after we had
the same damn brawls over F1 2000/F1 2000CS/F1 2001/F1 2002/F1C.

"Larry" > wrote in :

> Actually, you're right. I should put that on my list too. And it's
> also nice to have a game that a) was cheap and came on DVD and b)
> doesn't make you insert said disc to play it.
>
> As far as I can tell, it doesn't have any sort of copy protection. I
> don't even remember specifying a key at install time.
Isn't it curious that the great sims don't use copy protection (GPL, RBR)?

Alex.

"Dave F" > wrote in
:

> My replays look as if the car is on rails, and there
> is no wild sawwing back and forth at the wheel. Smooth and precise, and
> the car looks GLUED to the road because it's taken to the very limit,
> but never over. That's the only way you can be fast. GPL style driving
> will get you absolutely nowhere. Never in a million years could anyone
> look at one of my replays and say it looks like I'm driving on ice.
Very smooth and precise is exactly how you have to drive on racing slicks
on the ice

Alex.

"jason moyer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dave F wrote:
>
>> Jason, Remco, and Larry............I've got to be blunt and
>> say........it's
>> YOU.
>
> Pretty much yeah. After all we're discussing opinions here for the
> most part and not facts. There are certain facts that help me form my
> opinion (like rFactor missing features that are in Simbin products and
> being based entirely around amateur content) but it's my opinion and I
> certainly wouldn't expect you to share it. Especially not after we had
> the same damn brawls over F1 2000/F1 2000CS/F1 2001/F1 2002/F1C.

Please answer the following question with something logical and factual, and
I'll quit sim racing forever.

"Now how can I or anyone do those times, and they look like they do in
replays, if the sim feels and drives like you say??"

rFactor is entirely based around amateur content?

It comes with at least 13 tracks with multiple configurations, and F1, F3,
Skip Barber trainers, NASCAR, rally, and a few other tin top cars.

What content did N2003 have? A SINGLE car model and a bunch of ovals that
were just rehashed from previous versions. Wow.

Simbin are "amateurs" who one day decided to charge for their mods, so now
are professionals I guess. Making people pay and incorporating is all it
takes to say you are a pro. GTR2 is ONE series. They did not create the game
engine. ISI did. Not having to create the game engine AND content cuts the
workload way down. In case you didn't notice, they didn't buy the ISI net
code. If they did, they'd have the best net code ever made, as opposed to
what they have now.

rFactor actually has more content than most sims. And there's still plenty
more to come. More advanced weather implementation, more cars (Panoz), more
tracks.......

The CTDP F1 mod, F1 1979 mod, and a number of other so called amateurs have
created better and certainly more accurate products than anything Papyrus or
most other "pro" developers have ever charged us for.

Again, please tell me how my floaty F1 car with no feedback, tires made of
ice, and it's insistance on snap oversteer can do what it does on my
computer but not on yours.


--
David G Fisher

Well I agree with them two. I purchased rFactor (and asked to be
reimbursed within 48 hours) and tried the GTR2 demo and I can echo their
feeling. Also, I find all ISI based sims' graphics to be "grainy". Sure,
the car models are pretty sweet, but I find it hard to make the track
features/brake point out. The sound are pretty good. They just don't do
it for me.

I don't race with a gamepad (I have a TSW with high grade pots and USB
interface) on a P133 either, just in case you asked

Mr. P

Dave F wrote:
> Jason, Remco, and Larry............I've got to be blunt and say........it's
> YOU.
>
> Either your wheels aren't set up correctly for the sim, or you have bad
> setups (or both).
>
> If the cars feel like they are on ice, or not connected to the road, or
> there isn't enough feedback, it isn't the sim, it's you. This isn't a matter
> of personal feel or agreeing to disagree, but it's somehting that can be
> easily be proven. I'm not blowing my own horn, but I have some of the
> fastest times you'll find anywhere with the CTDP F1 mod. These F1 cars are
> the perfect shoice to disprove what you claim because they have to be driven
> exactly like the real drivers do in F1 or you lose massive amounts of time.
> It is simply impossible to run a clean, realistic looking 118.3 at
> Silverstone, 128.5 at Shakir, 111.4 at Montreal, 127.3 at Nuerburgring, or a
> 129.2 at Suzuka without being extremely precise. My replays look as if the
> car is on rails, and there is no wild sawwing back and forth at the wheel.
> Smooth and precise, and the car looks GLUED to the road because it's taken
> to the very limit, but never over. That's the only way you can be fast. GPL
> style driving will get you absolutely nowhere. Never in a million years
> could anyone look at one of my replays and say it looks like I'm driving on
> ice. No one could ever come close to those times in these F1 cars if the car
> felt loose, and with little feedback. Can't be done. The amount of feedback
> I get from the car is massive. Any tiny change in the setup and I can
> instantly feel it.
>
> Now how can I or anyone do those times, and they look like they do in
> replays, if the sim feels and drives like you say?? It's impossible.
>
> I don't know what wheels you use and what settings you've chosen in the
> controller screen, but they've got to be wrong. The setups must be poor.
> What's funny is that no one hates a loose feeling car more than me. If what
> you guys say is true, I'd be the first one to delete rFactor from my hard
> drive.
>
>

I liked that one two. But my TSW didn't: I never was able to configure
the game correctly. I tried with a gamepad (gasp!) and it was still
enjoyable.

Mr P

Vectrex wrote:
> Richard Burns Rally is by far my favorite. It's intense and feels so
> real it's scary. Its cheap now too.
> Surprised noone mentioned Live For Speed, although I guess the cars and
> tracks are mostly made up, but it's good online racing and it handles
> better than any ISI physics IMHO, so assuming those cars DID exist it
> would be realistic
>

You still have to set up the wheel correctly, and you still need the car set
up correctly, or any sim will feel awful. You're sure you did this before
you asked for a refund sometime in the first 48 hours after download?

Sounds impossible.


--
David G Fisher


"Cowboy Bob" > wrote in message
.. .
> Well I agree with them two. I purchased rFactor (and asked to be
> reimbursed within 48 hours) and tried the GTR2 demo and I can echo their
> feeling. Also, I find all ISI based sims' graphics to be "grainy". Sure,
> the car models are pretty sweet, but I find it hard to make the track
> features/brake point out. The sound are pretty good. They just don't do it
> for me.
>
> I don't race with a gamepad (I have a TSW with high grade pots and USB
> interface) on a P133 either, just in case you asked
>
> Mr. P
>
> Dave F wrote:
>> Jason, Remco, and Larry............I've got to be blunt and
>> say........it's YOU.
>>
>> Either your wheels aren't set up correctly for the sim, or you have bad
>> setups (or both).
>>
>> If the cars feel like they are on ice, or not connected to the road, or
>> there isn't enough feedback, it isn't the sim, it's you. This isn't a
>> matter of personal feel or agreeing to disagree, but it's somehting that
>> can be easily be proven. I'm not blowing my own horn, but I have some of
>> the fastest times you'll find anywhere with the CTDP F1 mod. These F1
>> cars are the perfect shoice to disprove what you claim because they have
>> to be driven exactly like the real drivers do in F1 or you lose massive
>> amounts of time. It is simply impossible to run a clean, realistic
>> looking 118.3 at Silverstone, 128.5 at Shakir, 111.4 at Montreal, 127.3
>> at Nuerburgring, or a 129.2 at Suzuka without being extremely precise. My
>> replays look as if the car is on rails, and there is no wild sawwing back
>> and forth at the wheel. Smooth and precise, and the car looks GLUED to
>> the road because it's taken to the very limit, but never over. That's the
>> only way you can be fast. GPL style driving will get you absolutely
>> nowhere. Never in a million years could anyone look at one of my replays
>> and say it looks like I'm driving on ice. No one could ever come close to
>> those times in these F1 cars if the car felt loose, and with little
>> feedback. Can't be done. The amount of feedback I get from the car is
>> massive. Any tiny change in the setup and I can instantly feel it.
>>
>> Now how can I or anyone do those times, and they look like they do in
>> replays, if the sim feels and drives like you say?? It's impossible.
>>
>> I don't know what wheels you use and what settings you've chosen in the
>> controller screen, but they've got to be wrong. The setups must be poor.
>> What's funny is that no one hates a loose feeling car more than me. If
>> what you guys say is true, I'd be the first one to delete rFactor from my
>> hard drive.
>>

I've set my wheel according to the guide on the TSW site. I think it was
the graphics that caused the most pain...

I tried again the GTR2 demo tonight, after posting, and I must admit I
may have been wrong about the graphics. But I'm still unsure about the
driving feeling. I may pick up the complete game: I've seen it in a
store close to the office for 20$ CAN, which is pretty good!




Dave F wrote:
> You still have to set up the wheel correctly, and you still need the car set
> up correctly, or any sim will feel awful. You're sure you did this before
> you asked for a refund sometime in the first 48 hours after download?
>
> Sounds impossible.
>
>

>
>DHL??.....Why in hell would they do that? That leaves half of the rural US
>having to drive to pick up the parcels. DHL doesn't deliver in my area
>either. I have to drive 40mi to the terminal if something is shipped through
>them...... Dumb move.
>
>Ed
>


Yup, and they won't allow me to specify UPS or Fedex. They are on the
is DHL kick now and I can't take it any more! I had a parcel
cancelled and returned by DHL because I ordered it 2nd day because
there was going to be no one home Thanksgiving week and I did not want
the package to get damaged on my front porch by the winds, snow, and
rain here in Montana! I am waiting for them to credit my credit card.

Plus, I have to spend lots of time on the phone with DHL trying to
track down the packages. Those idiots simply don't have a clue. They
should be in another business! The last time I ordered 2nd day it was
also shipped via DHL and about 4 business days later and an unmarked
old white van with some homeless looking woman with missing teeth and
unbrushed hair with a torn DHL shirt on showed up to deliver it! :-)

-pw