Should I rebuild my transmission

This is Crown Vic 1997.

When start driving from stop, it runs smoothly. It appears to change
gear fine at around 8 mp/h.

Somewhere between 20 and 30 mile per hour, especially when going up a
slope, the car often not changing gear (slip?). I hear a soft metal
rattling noise somewhere in the right front of the car (not a single
rattling sound, but rather like pouring sand on sheet metal, not very
loud though).

Often, I let the gas petal go, then press it down again to overcome the
problem. The problem happens very often. I check transmission oil
after the engine is hot, and it appears in between the marks.

Should I disassemble and rebuild this transmission as my first
transmission rebuild project? I got the manufacturer service manual
and also bought a Ford transmission repair book. I also changed
transmission oil before (a different make car).

I plan to open it out first, and check to see what I need to replace,
then buy a rebuild kit later to save money (because there's many
different types of kits on the internet). Is this the way to go?

If I open the transmission oil pan, and find no metal particles, then
is it a safe assumption that the transmission does not need to be
rebuilt, but some tune up is needed?

Please help and give me some advises. I really want to learn how to do
this, and also to fix this problem.

If you have no experience in rebuilding transmissions, you may want to think
about this very hard.

It is possible to do, of course, and for the most part you can work around
the need for special tools,
but it is complicated and if you get off course, you can end up with a
barrel full of parts you have no
idea where they came from.

If you have nothing better to do with your time, and if you are willing to
essentially write this car off
the books, and if you are not easily discouraged if you fail several times
in a row, then enjoy the project.

You will normally want to buy a rebuild kit, as it has much of what you will
need and is probably easier
to deal with and cheaper than trying to access a few bits and pieces as you
go through the project.

You may STILL have to buy some hard parts as you get into the work.

If I were you, I wouldnt take it on. I had training courses in this years
ago, worked with it some, but
have not done anything more than service trannies and install a few shift
kits in years. I would not be
competent to actually do the work now, and I realize that.

But it is your call.

From your later post, it sounds like there is more wrong with this Furd than
just the tranny. Are you sure
this car is worth making a project out of?

Thanks for the reply. Please see comment below.

hls wrote:
> If you have no experience in rebuilding transmissions, you may want to think
> about this very hard.

I would like to learn how to do this (by myself). I think this would
be my kick off experience.

>
> It is possible to do, of course, and for the most part you can work around
> the need for special tools,
> but it is complicated and if you get off course, you can end up with a
> barrel full of parts you have no
> idea where they came from.

This is one of the thing I concern the most. I plan to have a lot of
notes, taking pictures, laying items out in order. Disassemble each
big component and assemble them back individually (not taking
everything out, and put back, but take one big component, disassemble
them, then put back, then disassemble the next big component and so
on). I may also make a web page out of this for fun.

>
> If you have nothing better to do with your time, and if you are willing to
> essentially write this car off
> the books, and if you are not easily discouraged if you fail several times
> in a row, then enjoy the project.

Time is precious. But I really want to learn besides saving the cost.
I bought this car as a hobby to play with it. I have patients and
consistency for this. I think the cost of fixing this by a dealer
would be too much, and I can probably buy a rebuilt transmission and
put it myself ( probably more than a grand).

Is this a safe assumption?

If the transmission fail, I would loose the car anyway if not fixed
right? The one issue I can think of is that the dealer/mechanics may
fix this for much less. From my experience with the dealer, I replaced
a sensor which cost me about $20, but they asked for $175. So, I think
they would charge a hand and a leg for this.

>
> You will normally want to buy a rebuild kit, as it has much of what you will
> need and is probably easier
> to deal with and cheaper than trying to access a few bits and pieces as you
> go through the project.
>

Yes, I will buy the rebuild kit. The question is whether I buy before
hand or after I open it up (so I can pick the correct kit). I also
wonder if it has some common tools used to open a transmission, or just
frequently failed transmission parts. If it does include tools, I may
want to buy it first.

> You may STILL have to buy some hard parts as you get into the work.
>

Hard parts? You mean tools?

> If I were you, I wouldnt take it on.

Thank you for the advice. I feel that if I don't do this, I would be
in the dark side (of not knowing how to rebuild a tranny). One
alternative, I was thinking of buying a tranny from a salvage yard, and
play with it. The problem is that I don't think it'll be cheap.

> From your later post, it sounds like there is more wrong with this Furd than
> just the tranny. Are you sure
> this car is worth making a project out of?

This problem seem to be minor though. I have other cars and I fixed
many things before, so it's not a big challenge (I changed a struts'
bearing, which causes steering noise and tire noise). Many mechanics
didn't know the tire noise was the cause of the bad bearing. The
dealer asks to replace the whole strut/bearing (which cost a lot).
Some mechanics told me it was the tires, or the CV joint. I found an
advice later on the web that point this out correctly (after I have
fixed the problem). The bearing cost about $25. I also fixed
electrical problem. I replaced a tranny's park and neutral sensor (a
chrysler, I have to take the valve body off to do this). So, not
experienced, but I can learn and can do things with car. On the
question of whether the car is worth it. I wouldn't touch my other
cars' trannies at this level of experience yet. So I bought this car
for the learning purpose. This appears to be the hardest so far. By
the way, the strut problem, a mechanics cousin of mind advised me not
to touch it. I did. His advise was good (may loose my hands or head).
I almost loose my thumb. It's still a bit numb after many months.
But it's a good experience. It would be safer the next time if there
is (I was careful, but wasn't as experienced).

"vdu" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Thanks for the reply. Please see comment below.

Good luck with your project.

The rebuild kit contains no tools. Just clutches, seals, etc. Essentially
everything you will need UNLESS mechanical
damage has been done to clutch drums, shafts, bearings etc.

'Hard parts' are things like gears, bearings, clutch drums, etc. not
included in the kit.

One word of advice....dont get a friend to help you. YOU make the drawings,
pictures, etc and you be sure you know where
everything goes. Friends often go into a tranny like a fighting sow,
pulling apart everything in their path. Big mistake.

"vdu" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Thanks for the reply. Please see comment below.
>
> hls wrote:
>> If you have no experience in rebuilding transmissions, you may want to
>> think
>> about this very hard.
>
> I would like to learn how to do this (by myself). I think this would
> be my kick off experience.
>
>>
>> It is possible to do, of course, and for the most part you can work
>> around
>> the need for special tools,
>> but it is complicated and if you get off course, you can end up with a
>> barrel full of parts you have no
>> idea where they came from.
>
> This is one of the thing I concern the most. I plan to have a lot of
> notes, taking pictures, laying items out in order. Disassemble each
> big component and assemble them back individually (not taking
> everything out, and put back, but take one big component, disassemble
> them, then put back, then disassemble the next big component and so
> on). I may also make a web page out of this for fun.
>
>>
>> If you have nothing better to do with your time, and if you are willing
>> to
>> essentially write this car off
>> the books, and if you are not easily discouraged if you fail several
>> times
>> in a row, then enjoy the project.
>
> Time is precious. But I really want to learn besides saving the cost.
> I bought this car as a hobby to play with it. I have patients and
> consistency for this. I think the cost of fixing this by a dealer
> would be too much, and I can probably buy a rebuilt transmission and
> put it myself ( probably more than a grand).
>
> Is this a safe assumption?
>
> If the transmission fail, I would loose the car anyway if not fixed
> right? The one issue I can think of is that the dealer/mechanics may
> fix this for much less. From my experience with the dealer, I replaced
> a sensor which cost me about $20, but they asked for $175. So, I think
> they would charge a hand and a leg for this.
>
>>
>> You will normally want to buy a rebuild kit, as it has much of what you
>> will
>> need and is probably easier
>> to deal with and cheaper than trying to access a few bits and pieces as
>> you
>> go through the project.
>>
>
> Yes, I will buy the rebuild kit. The question is whether I buy before
> hand or after I open it up (so I can pick the correct kit). I also
> wonder if it has some common tools used to open a transmission, or just
> frequently failed transmission parts. If it does include tools, I may
> want to buy it first.
>
>> You may STILL have to buy some hard parts as you get into the work.
>>
>
> Hard parts? You mean tools?
>
>> If I were you, I wouldnt take it on.
>
> Thank you for the advice. I feel that if I don't do this, I would be
> in the dark side (of not knowing how to rebuild a tranny). One
> alternative, I was thinking of buying a tranny from a salvage yard, and
> play with it. The problem is that I don't think it'll be cheap.
>
>> From your later post, it sounds like there is more wrong with this Furd
>> than
>> just the tranny. Are you sure
>> this car is worth making a project out of?
>
> This problem seem to be minor though. I have other cars and I fixed
> many things before, so it's not a big challenge (I changed a struts'
> bearing, which causes steering noise and tire noise). Many mechanics
> didn't know the tire noise was the cause of the bad bearing. The
> dealer asks to replace the whole strut/bearing (which cost a lot).
> Some mechanics told me it was the tires, or the CV joint. I found an
> advice later on the web that point this out correctly (after I have
> fixed the problem). The bearing cost about $25. I also fixed
> electrical problem. I replaced a tranny's park and neutral sensor (a
> chrysler, I have to take the valve body off to do this). So, not
> experienced, but I can learn and can do things with car. On the
> question of whether the car is worth it. I wouldn't touch my other
> cars' trannies at this level of experience yet. So I bought this car
> for the learning purpose. This appears to be the hardest so far. By
> the way, the strut problem, a mechanics cousin of mind advised me not
> to touch it. I did. His advise was good (may loose my hands or head).
> I almost loose my thumb. It's still a bit numb after many months.
> But it's a good experience. It would be safer the next time if there
> is (I was careful, but wasn't as experienced).
>
Anybody care to wager on this? I'll make 2 bets: one, that vdu is going
to try it; two, that he is going to succeed. He's just too set on doing,
learning, saving, and enjoying the self-satisfaction, plus seemingly
possessing the mechanical aptitude. Love to have a shopful of mechanics
with those qualities--IF they could accept pay-by-the-job-------NOT hourly
rates! Luck to you, vdu. Please post your results for the faint of heart
and for aspiring young mechanics. s

"sdlomi2" > wrote in
:

>
> "vdu" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>> Thanks for the reply. Please see comment below.
>>
>> hls wrote:
>>> If you have no experience in rebuilding transmissions, you may want
>>> to think
>>> about this very hard.
>>
>> I would like to learn how to do this (by myself). I think this would
>> be my kick off experience.
>>
>>>
>>> It is possible to do, of course, and for the most part you can work
>>> around
>>> the need for special tools,
>>> but it is complicated and if you get off course, you can end up with
>>> a barrel full of parts you have no
>>> idea where they came from.
>>
>> This is one of the thing I concern the most. I plan to have a lot of
>> notes, taking pictures, laying items out in order. Disassemble each
>> big component and assemble them back individually (not taking
>> everything out, and put back, but take one big component, disassemble
>> them, then put back, then disassemble the next big component and so
>> on). I may also make a web page out of this for fun.
>>
>>>
>>> If you have nothing better to do with your time, and if you are
>>> willing to
>>> essentially write this car off
>>> the books, and if you are not easily discouraged if you fail several
>>> times
>>> in a row, then enjoy the project.
>>
>> Time is precious. But I really want to learn besides saving the
>> cost. I bought this car as a hobby to play with it. I have patients
>> and consistency for this. I think the cost of fixing this by a
>> dealer would be too much, and I can probably buy a rebuilt
>> transmission and put it myself ( probably more than a grand).
>>
>> Is this a safe assumption?
>>
>> If the transmission fail, I would loose the car anyway if not fixed
>> right? The one issue I can think of is that the dealer/mechanics may
>> fix this for much less. From my experience with the dealer, I
>> replaced a sensor which cost me about $20, but they asked for $175.
>> So, I think they would charge a hand and a leg for this.
>>
>>>
>>> You will normally want to buy a rebuild kit, as it has much of what
>>> you will
>>> need and is probably easier
>>> to deal with and cheaper than trying to access a few bits and pieces
>>> as you
>>> go through the project.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I will buy the rebuild kit. The question is whether I buy
>> before hand or after I open it up (so I can pick the correct kit). I
>> also wonder if it has some common tools used to open a transmission,
>> or just frequently failed transmission parts. If it does include
>> tools, I may want to buy it first.
>>
>>> You may STILL have to buy some hard parts as you get into the work.
>>>
>>
>> Hard parts? You mean tools?
>>
>>> If I were you, I wouldnt take it on.
>>
>> Thank you for the advice. I feel that if I don't do this, I would be
>> in the dark side (of not knowing how to rebuild a tranny). One
>> alternative, I was thinking of buying a tranny from a salvage yard,
>> and play with it. The problem is that I don't think it'll be cheap.
>>
>>> From your later post, it sounds like there is more wrong with this
>>> Furd than
>>> just the tranny. Are you sure
>>> this car is worth making a project out of?
>>
>> This problem seem to be minor though. I have other cars and I fixed
>> many things before, so it's not a big challenge (I changed a struts'
>> bearing, which causes steering noise and tire noise). Many mechanics
>> didn't know the tire noise was the cause of the bad bearing. The
>> dealer asks to replace the whole strut/bearing (which cost a lot).
>> Some mechanics told me it was the tires, or the CV joint. I found an
>> advice later on the web that point this out correctly (after I have
>> fixed the problem). The bearing cost about $25. I also fixed
>> electrical problem. I replaced a tranny's park and neutral sensor (a
>> chrysler, I have to take the valve body off to do this). So, not
>> experienced, but I can learn and can do things with car. On the
>> question of whether the car is worth it. I wouldn't touch my other
>> cars' trannies at this level of experience yet. So I bought this car
>> for the learning purpose. This appears to be the hardest so far. By
>> the way, the strut problem, a mechanics cousin of mind advised me not
>> to touch it. I did. His advise was good (may loose my hands or
>> head). I almost loose my thumb. It's still a bit numb after many
>> months. But it's a good experience. It would be safer the next time
>> if there is (I was careful, but wasn't as experienced).
>>
> Anybody care to wager on this? I'll make 2 bets: one, that vdu is
> going
> to try it; two, that he is going to succeed. He's just too set on
> doing, learning, saving, and enjoying the self-satisfaction, plus
> seemingly possessing the mechanical aptitude. Love to have a shopful
> of mechanics with those qualities--IF they could accept
> pay-by-the-job-------NOT hourly rates! Luck to you, vdu. Please post
> your results for the faint of heart and for aspiring young mechanics.
> s
>
>
>
>

I will take your second bet that he suceedes. A auto overdrive trany is
no place to be "Learning" on. With out some kind of help it will never
work again. KB

--
Thunder Snake #9
"Protect" your rights or "lose" them.

sdlomi2 wrote:

> Anybody care to wager on this? I'll make 2 bets: one, that vdu is going
> to try it; two, that he is going to succeed.

<snip>

=======
=======

I'd like to place $10 against his try'n.

and...........


a years wages against his succeeding.



i'm sorry i can't afford more....
but i have SEVERAL similar bets on this
same bet line going on rite now.....
however.....once THEY........payoff.....

it will free up more funds for the "success" bet.







~:~
MarshMonster
~sips his mushroom tea........rolls the 4R70W to the tear down table~
~:~

========
========
vdu wrote in message:

> Should I disassemble and rebuild this transmission as my first
> transmission rebuild project?

=======
=======

no



~:~
MarshMonster
~:~

"sdlomi2" > wrote in message
...
> Anybody care to wager on this? I'll make 2 bets: one, that vdu is
> going to try it; two, that he is going to succeed. He's just too set on
> doing, learning, saving, and enjoying the self-satisfaction, plus
> seemingly possessing the mechanical aptitude. Love to have a shopful of
> mechanics with those qualities--IF they could accept
> pay-by-the-job-------NOT hourly rates! Luck to you, vdu. Please post
> your results for the faint of heart and for aspiring young mechanics. s

I laud his interest and dedication. He will certainly learn a lot.

"sdlomi2" > wrote in message
...
>
> "vdu" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > Thanks for the reply. Please see comment below.
> >
> > hls wrote:
> >> If you have no experience in rebuilding transmissions, you may want to
> >> think
> >> about this very hard.
> >
> > I would like to learn how to do this (by myself). I think this would
> > be my kick off experience.
> >
> >>
> >> It is possible to do, of course, and for the most part you can work
> >> around
> >> the need for special tools,
> >> but it is complicated and if you get off course, you can end up with a
> >> barrel full of parts you have no
> >> idea where they came from.
> >
> > This is one of the thing I concern the most. I plan to have a lot of
> > notes, taking pictures, laying items out in order. Disassemble each
> > big component and assemble them back individually (not taking
> > everything out, and put back, but take one big component, disassemble
> > them, then put back, then disassemble the next big component and so
> > on). I may also make a web page out of this for fun.
> >
> >>
> >> If you have nothing better to do with your time, and if you are willing
> >> to
> >> essentially write this car off
> >> the books, and if you are not easily discouraged if you fail several
> >> times
> >> in a row, then enjoy the project.
> >
> > Time is precious. But I really want to learn besides saving the cost.
> > I bought this car as a hobby to play with it. I have patients and
> > consistency for this. I think the cost of fixing this by a dealer
> > would be too much, and I can probably buy a rebuilt transmission and
> > put it myself ( probably more than a grand).
> >
> > Is this a safe assumption?
> >
> > If the transmission fail, I would loose the car anyway if not fixed
> > right? The one issue I can think of is that the dealer/mechanics may
> > fix this for much less. From my experience with the dealer, I replaced
> > a sensor which cost me about $20, but they asked for $175. So, I think
> > they would charge a hand and a leg for this.
> >
> >>
> >> You will normally want to buy a rebuild kit, as it has much of what you
> >> will
> >> need and is probably easier
> >> to deal with and cheaper than trying to access a few bits and pieces as
> >> you
> >> go through the project.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, I will buy the rebuild kit. The question is whether I buy before
> > hand or after I open it up (so I can pick the correct kit). I also
> > wonder if it has some common tools used to open a transmission, or just
> > frequently failed transmission parts. If it does include tools, I may
> > want to buy it first.
> >
> >> You may STILL have to buy some hard parts as you get into the work.
> >>
> >
> > Hard parts? You mean tools?
> >
> >> If I were you, I wouldnt take it on.
> >
> > Thank you for the advice. I feel that if I don't do this, I would be
> > in the dark side (of not knowing how to rebuild a tranny). One
> > alternative, I was thinking of buying a tranny from a salvage yard, and
> > play with it. The problem is that I don't think it'll be cheap.
> >
> >> From your later post, it sounds like there is more wrong with this Furd
> >> than
> >> just the tranny. Are you sure
> >> this car is worth making a project out of?
> >
> > This problem seem to be minor though. I have other cars and I fixed
> > many things before, so it's not a big challenge (I changed a struts'
> > bearing, which causes steering noise and tire noise). Many mechanics
> > didn't know the tire noise was the cause of the bad bearing. The
> > dealer asks to replace the whole strut/bearing (which cost a lot).
> > Some mechanics told me it was the tires, or the CV joint. I found an
> > advice later on the web that point this out correctly (after I have
> > fixed the problem). The bearing cost about $25. I also fixed
> > electrical problem. I replaced a tranny's park and neutral sensor (a
> > chrysler, I have to take the valve body off to do this). So, not
> > experienced, but I can learn and can do things with car. On the
> > question of whether the car is worth it. I wouldn't touch my other
> > cars' trannies at this level of experience yet. So I bought this car
> > for the learning purpose. This appears to be the hardest so far. By
> > the way, the strut problem, a mechanics cousin of mind advised me not
> > to touch it. I did. His advise was good (may loose my hands or head).
> > I almost loose my thumb. It's still a bit numb after many months.
> > But it's a good experience. It would be safer the next time if there
> > is (I was careful, but wasn't as experienced).
> >
> Anybody care to wager on this? I'll make 2 bets: one, that vdu is
going
> to try it; two, that he is going to succeed.

He isn't going to succeed on his first try. If he somehow manages to get
the
thing back together it won't last. But, if he keeps at it, he might succeed
on his second or third one.

The smart thing to do would be to get a wrecking yard trans and R&R
the trans he has. Getting the existing trans out and another one back in
and having it all work is a big enough job for a newbie learner. Once
he gets one of those done, then when the wrecking yard trans dies,
he might be ready to pull it out and tackle rebuilding it.

Ted