Root cause insight into the common BMW blower motor resistorfailures

In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> Cydrome Leader > wrote:
>>In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>> Nothing wrong with linear motor control, it's just inefficient and
>>> produces a lot of heat. I used to work in a place with a 1.2 MW DC
>>> motor whose field coil voltage was controlled by a couple rooms full
>>> of cast-iron resistors. The resistance array lasted nearly 80 years
>>> before the whole facility was taken down.
>>
>>I've got ask- what was this motor used for?
>>
>>pumping station? mining equipment steel mill?
>
> You could call it a sort of wind tunnel. Now obsolete, in great part due
> to computer modelling making analysis tools like that less important, and
> in great part due to computer modelling of the tools making it possible to
> make less turbulent tunnels.
> --scott

so there was an 80 year old giant windtunnel somewhere?

On 3/29/2013 12:18 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>> Cydrome Leader > wrote:
>>> In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>>> Nothing wrong with linear motor control, it's just inefficient and
>>>> produces a lot of heat. I used to work in a place with a 1.2 MW DC
>>>> motor whose field coil voltage was controlled by a couple rooms full
>>>> of cast-iron resistors. The resistance array lasted nearly 80 years
>>>> before the whole facility was taken down.
>>>
>>> I've got ask- what was this motor used for?
>>>
>>> pumping station? mining equipment steel mill?
>>
>> You could call it a sort of wind tunnel. Now obsolete, in great part due
>> to computer modelling making analysis tools like that less important, and
>> in great part due to computer modelling of the tools making it possible to
>> make less turbulent tunnels.
>> --scott
>
> so there was an 80 year old giant windtunnel somewhere?

You're joking, right?

1901:
http://airandspace.si.edu/wrightbrot.../1901/wind.cfm

very modern 1935:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqAyEwCmcA


--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 03/29/2013 01:18 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
> In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>> Cydrome Leader > wrote:
>>> In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>>> Nothing wrong with linear motor control, it's just inefficient and
>>>> produces a lot of heat. I used to work in a place with a 1.2 MW DC
>>>> motor whose field coil voltage was controlled by a couple rooms full
>>>> of cast-iron resistors. The resistance array lasted nearly 80 years
>>>> before the whole facility was taken down.
>>>
>>> I've got ask- what was this motor used for?
>>>
>>> pumping station? mining equipment steel mill?
>>
>> You could call it a sort of wind tunnel. Now obsolete, in great part due
>> to computer modelling making analysis tools like that less important, and
>> in great part due to computer modelling of the tools making it possible to
>> make less turbulent tunnels.
>> --scott
>
> so there was an 80 year old giant windtunnel somewhere?
>
>

well, 80 years ago would be 1933; definitely into the era of commercial
flight, so it's entirely possible. Hell, the Germans might have been
working on jet engines by that point, or at least thinking about them.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

jim beam wrote:

> On 03/28/2013 06:51 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> that's bogus. unless there's been a MAJOR screw-up, potting compounds
>>> are carefully matched to the thermal and chemical application - they
>>> serve to increase reliability, not degrade it.
>>
>>
>>
>> How many deigns have you selected the proper potting compounds for?
>> What types of filler materials? How did you verify that no moisture
>> would be trapped inside the potting? Did you verify the temperature
>> coefficient of very component, the PC board material and the housing?
>> Test it for extended periods over the entire temperature, humidity and
>> barometric conditions that it can encounter in service. how about
>> vibration & impact testing? Or are you just blowing more smoke out your
>> ass.
>
>
> wtf is eating your ass tonight? you're right that all those factors are
> relevant. that's why i said potting compounds are "carefully matched".
>
> as to moisture, you're attacking a straw man. i specifically didn't
> list every possible application detail because it's common knowledge to
> anyone doing that work. nobody specifies that any more than mechanical
> drawings specify conventional right-hand threading on fasteners. /all/
> fasteners are right hand threaded UNLESS left hand is specifically
> detailed.
>
>

Let me offer you some good advice, put him on your black list so it
won't eat you up. I only see him in replies now, like yours here because
I have block him out of my reader.

He's nothing but an old bickering dried up prone. In his younger
years he most likely good off on little kids learning the field and made
him
feel like he was something else when he offered any knowledge that he
thought was useful to them. These days, the little kids have grown
up and most likely found out that half the information he fed them was
bogus!

Don't worry about what he has to say, he's one of those that wants
every one like you, to kiss is feet and say how much of a god he is.

It should be obviously that will never happen from this end

Jamie

Jamie wrote:
>
> jim beam wrote:
>
> > On 03/28/2013 06:51 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> jim beam wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> that's bogus. unless there's been a MAJOR screw-up, potting compounds
> >>> are carefully matched to the thermal and chemical application - they
> >>> serve to increase reliability, not degrade it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> How many deigns have you selected the proper potting compounds for?
> >> What types of filler materials? How did you verify that no moisture
> >> would be trapped inside the potting? Did you verify the temperature
> >> coefficient of very component, the PC board material and the housing?
> >> Test it for extended periods over the entire temperature, humidity and
> >> barometric conditions that it can encounter in service. how about
> >> vibration & impact testing? Or are you just blowing more smoke out your
> >> ass.
> >
> >
> > wtf is eating your ass tonight? you're right that all those factors are
> > relevant. that's why i said potting compounds are "carefully matched".
> >
> > as to moisture, you're attacking a straw man. i specifically didn't
> > list every possible application detail because it's common knowledge to
> > anyone doing that work. nobody specifies that any more than mechanical
> > drawings specify conventional right-hand threading on fasteners. /all/
> > fasteners are right hand threaded UNLESS left hand is specifically
> > detailed.
> >
> >
>
> Let me offer you some good advice, put him on your black list so it
> won't eat you up. I only see him in replies now, like yours here because
> I have block him out of my reader.
>
> He's nothing but an old bickering dried up prone. In his younger
> years he most likely good off on little kids learning the field and made
> him
> feel like he was something else when he offered any knowledge that he
> thought was useful to them. These days, the little kids have grown
> up and most likely found out that half the information he fed them was
> bogus!


Keep up the slander Maynard. I taught first year high school
electronics while I was still a Junior in that school. After that, I
trained new techs to use what they learned in school on the repair
benchg so they could earn a living. I was still doing this at
Microdyne, till the closed the local telemetry 'engineer to order'
facility.

The rest of my work history is online, along with my military service
with AFRTSwhich is availible to anyone with the DOD records database.
Maynard refuses to tell anyone where he works. He just damns everyone
else.


> Don't worry about what he has to say, he's one of those that wants
> every one like you, to kiss is feet and say how much of a god he is.
>
> It should be obviously that will never happen from this end


The irony! I was 'black list' by an illiterate troll. All I can do
is laugh at the nonsense writing 'style' of someone who consistently
makes a fool of himself on news:sci.electronics.design He thinks an
'Electret' microphone is a 'crystal' microphone. His real name is
Maynard Philbrick. A typical appliance operator 'ham' with the call of
KA1LPA. look at his website to see what a sick individual he is.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5/ if you have the stomach for
childish dirvel.


--

Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Sometimes Friday is just the fifth Monday of the week.

On 03/29/2013 10:22 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> Jamie wrote:
>>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/28/2013 06:51 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> that's bogus. unless there's been a MAJOR screw-up, potting compounds
>>>>> are carefully matched to the thermal and chemical application - they
>>>>> serve to increase reliability, not degrade it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How many deigns have you selected the proper potting compounds for?
>>>> What types of filler materials? How did you verify that no moisture
>>>> would be trapped inside the potting? Did you verify the temperature
>>>> coefficient of very component, the PC board material and the housing?
>>>> Test it for extended periods over the entire temperature, humidity and
>>>> barometric conditions that it can encounter in service. how about
>>>> vibration & impact testing? Or are you just blowing more smoke out your
>>>> ass.
>>>
>>>
>>> wtf is eating your ass tonight? you're right that all those factors are
>>> relevant. that's why i said potting compounds are "carefully matched".
>>>
>>> as to moisture, you're attacking a straw man. i specifically didn't
>>> list every possible application detail because it's common knowledge to
>>> anyone doing that work. nobody specifies that any more than mechanical
>>> drawings specify conventional right-hand threading on fasteners. /all/
>>> fasteners are right hand threaded UNLESS left hand is specifically
>>> detailed.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Let me offer you some good advice, put him on your black list so it
>> won't eat you up. I only see him in replies now, like yours here because
>> I have block him out of my reader.
>>
>> He's nothing but an old bickering dried up prone. In his younger
>> years he most likely good off on little kids learning the field and made
>> him
>> feel like he was something else when he offered any knowledge that he
>> thought was useful to them. These days, the little kids have grown
>> up and most likely found out that half the information he fed them was
>> bogus!
>
>
> Keep up the slander Maynard. I taught first year high school
> electronics while I was still a Junior in that school. After that, I
> trained new techs to use what they learned in school on the repair
> benchg so they could earn a living. I was still doing this at
> Microdyne, till the closed the local telemetry 'engineer to order'
> facility.
>
> The rest of my work history is online, along with my military service
> with AFRTSwhich is availible to anyone with the DOD records database.
> Maynard refuses to tell anyone where he works. He just damns everyone
> else.
>
>
>> Don't worry about what he has to say, he's one of those that wants
>> every one like you, to kiss is feet and say how much of a god he is.
>>
>> It should be obviously that will never happen from this end
>
>
> The irony! I was 'black list' by an illiterate troll. All I can do
> is laugh at the nonsense writing 'style' of someone who consistently
> makes a fool of himself on news:sci.electronics.design He thinks an
> 'Electret' microphone is a 'crystal' microphone. His real name is
> Maynard Philbrick. A typical appliance operator 'ham' with the call of
> KA1LPA. look at his website to see what a sick individual he is.
> http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5/ if you have the stomach for
> childish dirvel.
>
>

it's drivel, not "dirvel".

as to your apparent feud, i don't know either you or jamie - i only read
r.a.t and neither of you are regular contributors. i will say though
that given my interactions so far, he's fine. you're not. and fyi,
publishing someone else's personal details on usenet is seriously huge
asshole behavior. you can be a retard and publish your own personals
all you want, but someone else's is /WAY/ out of line.


--
fact check required

In sci.electronics.repair AMuzi > wrote:
> On 3/29/2013 12:18 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>> Cydrome Leader > wrote:
>>>> In sci.electronics.repair Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>>>> Nothing wrong with linear motor control, it's just inefficient and
>>>>> produces a lot of heat. I used to work in a place with a 1.2 MW DC
>>>>> motor whose field coil voltage was controlled by a couple rooms full
>>>>> of cast-iron resistors. The resistance array lasted nearly 80 years
>>>>> before the whole facility was taken down.
>>>>
>>>> I've got ask- what was this motor used for?
>>>>
>>>> pumping station? mining equipment steel mill?
>>>
>>> You could call it a sort of wind tunnel. Now obsolete, in great part due
>>> to computer modelling making analysis tools like that less important, and
>>> in great part due to computer modelling of the tools making it possible to
>>> make less turbulent tunnels.
>>> --scott
>>
>> so there was an 80 year old giant windtunnel somewhere?
>
> You're joking, right?
>
> 1901:
> http://airandspace.si.edu/wrightbrot.../1901/wind.cfm
>
> very modern 1935:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqAyEwCmcA

even elevators lasting 80 years is pushing it for keeping old stuff
around.

jim beam wrote:

> On 03/29/2013 10:22 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>>
>> Jamie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/28/2013 06:51 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that's bogus. unless there's been a MAJOR screw-up, potting
>>>>>> compounds
>>>>>> are carefully matched to the thermal and chemical application - they
>>>>>> serve to increase reliability, not degrade it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How many deigns have you selected the proper potting compounds
>>>>> for?
>>>>> What types of filler materials? How did you verify that no moisture
>>>>> would be trapped inside the potting? Did you verify the temperature
>>>>> coefficient of very component, the PC board material and the housing?
>>>>> Test it for extended periods over the entire temperature, humidity and
>>>>> barometric conditions that it can encounter in service. how about
>>>>> vibration & impact testing? Or are you just blowing more smoke out
>>>>> your
>>>>> ass.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> wtf is eating your ass tonight? you're right that all those factors
>>>> are
>>>> relevant. that's why i said potting compounds are "carefully matched".
>>>>
>>>> as to moisture, you're attacking a straw man. i specifically didn't
>>>> list every possible application detail because it's common knowledge to
>>>> anyone doing that work. nobody specifies that any more than mechanical
>>>> drawings specify conventional right-hand threading on fasteners. /all/
>>>> fasteners are right hand threaded UNLESS left hand is specifically
>>>> detailed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Let me offer you some good advice, put him on your black list so it
>>> won't eat you up. I only see him in replies now, like yours here because
>>> I have block him out of my reader.
>>>
>>> He's nothing but an old bickering dried up prone. In his younger
>>> years he most likely good off on little kids learning the field and made
>>> him
>>> feel like he was something else when he offered any knowledge that he
>>> thought was useful to them. These days, the little kids have grown
>>> up and most likely found out that half the information he fed them was
>>> bogus!
>>
>>
>>
>> Keep up the slander Maynard. I taught first year high school
>> electronics while I was still a Junior in that school. After that, I
>> trained new techs to use what they learned in school on the repair
>> benchg so they could earn a living. I was still doing this at
>> Microdyne, till the closed the local telemetry 'engineer to order'
>> facility.
>>
>> The rest of my work history is online, along with my military service
>> with AFRTSwhich is availible to anyone with the DOD records database.
>> Maynard refuses to tell anyone where he works. He just damns everyone
>> else.
>>
>>
>>> Don't worry about what he has to say, he's one of those that wants
>>> every one like you, to kiss is feet and say how much of a god he is.
>>>
>>> It should be obviously that will never happen from this end
>>
>>
>>
>> The irony! I was 'black list' by an illiterate troll. All I can do
>> is laugh at the nonsense writing 'style' of someone who consistently
>> makes a fool of himself on news:sci.electronics.design He thinks an
>> 'Electret' microphone is a 'crystal' microphone. His real name is
>> Maynard Philbrick. A typical appliance operator 'ham' with the call of
>> KA1LPA. look at his website to see what a sick individual he is.
>> http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5/ if you have the stomach for
>> childish dirvel.
>>
>>
>
> it's drivel, not "dirvel".
>
> as to your apparent feud, i don't know either you or jamie - i only read
> r.a.t and neither of you are regular contributors. i will say though
> that given my interactions so far, he's fine. you're not. and fyi,
> publishing someone else's personal details on usenet is seriously huge
> asshole behavior. you can be a retard and publish your own personals
> all you want, but someone else's is /WAY/ out of line.
>
>
You know it's very funny, what he does. He thinks it bothers me by him
publishing my details in the manner in which he does. What he seems to
be very ignorant about is his willingness to incriminate himself.

Have fun and enjoy his ranting, he's a real party popper.

Adios amigo...

Jamie

Jamie wrote:
>
> You know it's very funny, what he does. He thinks it bothers me by him
> publishing my details in the manner in which he does. What he seems to
> be very ignorant about is his willingness to incriminate himself.


Yawn.............................................. ................

--

Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

Sometimes Friday is just the fifth Monday of the week.

Bimmer Owner wrote on 03/21/2013 11:04 ET :
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:45:54 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Static resistance doesn't tell you anything, but operating current
>> measured with a DMM would tell you a lot.
>>
>>
>>
> It 'can' be done, but would require a test jig inserted inline
> as the FSU is deeply ensconced under the dash while the blower motor
> is even more deeply so.
>
>> I've never tested one, but I put a drop of turbine oil on the
>> motor bearings every five years or so.
>>
>>
>>
> While that preventive work might be prudent, the sheer effort
> to remove the entire dash simply to access the blower motor
> would be problematic.
>
> Still, if the problem is that the blower motor is merely using more
> current as it gets older, why wouldn't a NEW FSU burn up within a
> few weeks of insertion?
>
the FSR /fsu is a variable resistor that will control the fan speed;
consequently at the lower speed of the fan the FSR will have the highest
resistance > hence it will heat the most, and the bad thing: there is not
enough air flow to cool it down (around 200W i suppose)

newer replacement FSR units have more aluminium bars to increase the heat
dissipation area.

maybe the worst thing of all is that the FSR will eat up fuel for nothing (just
to produce heat by electricity) something in the range of 100..200W and since
the electricity is made with the efficiency of a gasoline engine (from
44MJ/kg),
it is ~4times more expensive as the same electric load in the house