Need ways to start a car with a dead battery.- 92 Civic Auto.

Matthew Russotto wrote:
> In article .com>,
> Kaz Kylheku > wrote:
> >
> >Because if your battery is actually dead, what can happen is that the
> >first few strokes of the engine can blow unburned fuel-air mixture into
> >the exhaust system where it will later ignite, possibly damaging your
> >catalytic converter.
>
> No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated
> injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run.

You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the
alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right?

Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark
plugs?

Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even
after the other car's battery is disconnected?

Steve wrote:
> Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>
> > Sam Nickaby wrote:
> >
> >>I have been thinking of a good way to prevent stranding
> >>myself from a dead battery. It happened twice.
> >
> >
> > Drive a manual transmission. You can push start those.
> >
> > However, caveats:
> >
> > - unburned fuel/air mixture during the first few cycles can ignite in
> > the exhaust system where it can damage the catalytic converter.
>
> Oh, good GRIEF!!
>
> Catcons are *not* that delicate. No way in God's green earth that a few
> cylinder-fulls of raw fuel/air mix is going to hurt a catcon.

Actually, once the alternator is going, it will power the fuel
injection and the sparkplugs. How much fuel injection can happen before
there is enough current for the ignition coil, right? Can the fuel pump
get into action faster than the ignition system? What's faster,
spinning up a fuel pump, or building up field in a coil?

I read about this cat burning risk, but now the more I thinkg about it,
the more it sounds like complete bull****. As in, aside from the the
converter being able to take it, it never actually happens.

> No way, no
> how, AINT GONNA HAPPEN. If it did, we could never have had 16 years of
> CARBURETED cars (1975 until the last carbureted Mazda pickup in 1991)
> with perfectly functional catalytic convertors, now could we?
>
> Running 20 miles with two spark plug wires disconnected- now THAT will
> heat up a catcon to a nice cherry red and do some damage... but just
> starting an engine? Nope.

Thanks for providing some perspective on this.

On 2006-02-17, Steve > wrote:

> hurt it. But this is exactly why a DEEPLY discharged battery should
> (ideally) be recharged by a plug-in current-regulated charger and NOT
> the car's non-current-limited charging system.

Yes. About 2-6 amps overnight. But, a charge from the alternator on
a dead battery is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

nb

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>
> Matthew Russotto wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > Kaz Kylheku > wrote:
> > >
> > >Because if your battery is actually dead, what can happen is that the
> > >first few strokes of the engine can blow unburned fuel-air mixture into
> > >the exhaust system where it will later ignite, possibly damaging your
> > >catalytic converter.
> >
> > No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated
> > injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run.
>
> You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the
> alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right?
>
> Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark
> plugs?
>
> Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even
> after the other car's battery is disconnected?

Sorry, but if you had read the thread you would have found out that most
alternators need power input to turn on when they spins up. No battery,
no alternator power.

Pushing the vehicle will not turn on the alternator with a flat
battery. Boosting it gives the alternator power to turn on.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
..
>>No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated
>>injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run.
>
>
> You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the
> alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right?
>
> Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark
> plugs?
>
> Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even
> after the other car's battery is disconnected?
>

The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to
operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the
generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that
voltage AND charge the dead battery. I have always had stick shift
cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine
management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was
really dead, no go.

Don Stauffer wrote:
> The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to
> operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the
> generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that
> voltage AND charge the dead battery. I have always had stick shift
> cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine
> management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was
> really dead, no go.


FWIW, i personally push started a 98 corolla. the battery didnt have
enough juice to turn the starter, but apparently it had enough to get
the ECU to work for the time being.

Don Stauffer wrote:
> Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> .
> >>No, it won't, not on a modern car. Because your electrically-actuated
> >>injectors won't fire and your electric fuel pump won't run.
> >
> >
> > You do understand that when you push-start a car, that causes the
> > alternator to spin, which generates electricity, right?
> >
> > Some old fashioned components need electricity too like, oh, spark
> > plugs?
> >
> > Why do you think that a jumpstarted car's engine continues to run, even
> > after the other car's battery is disconnected?
> >
>
> The problem is, the engine computer needs a certain MINIMUM voltage to
> operate. It is difficult to push the car fast enough to get the
> generator/alternator to a high enough speed that it can maintain that
> voltage AND charge the dead battery.
> I have always had stick shift
> cars, and those used to be easy to push start- until the engine
> management computers. Then,with those computers, if the battery was
> really dead, no go.

Did you try /disconnecting/ the dead battery? There is no point of a
dead battery being in the circuit during starting. All it does is suck
up current. You can reconnect it when the engine is running. Or maybe
not. If the battery is really completely dead, it's probably better to
charge it with a proper current-limiting charger anyway. If you can
get to a charger without too many more push-starts (ideally zero), I'd
do it that way.

>
> Yes, they need a field current. But that has nothing to do with the car
> being modern, does it? Are alternators considered modern?
>
My first car had a generator, so for me only modern cars have
alternators. For that matter they also have power steering, servo
brakes, electronic ignition not to mention radial tires........

Considering the alternator will barely charge the battery when the car
is idling (say about 800rpm), you're gonna be pulling that rope for a
looooooong time to do any good.

I think you're going to have to
a. Install an alarm device to remind you to turn lights etc. off.
or
b. Learn from your previous mistakes...

Cheers,
Steve

Bozo wrote:
> >
> > Yes, they need a field current. But that has nothing to do with the car
> > being modern, does it? Are alternators considered modern?
> >
> My first car had a generator, so for me only modern cars have
> alternators. For that matter they also have power steering, servo
> brakes, electronic ignition not to mention radial tires........

My first car pushed its pistons using carbon dioxide released by baking
soda dumped into water. Crazy, drag-racing daredevils used metallic
sodium instead, which releases hydrogen! Some of these guys would
actually light the exhaust on purpose to create dramatic flames. (Using
their Cuban cigars, of course). Then some clever, inventive type tried
lighting the hydrogen /within/ the cylinder for additional power,
having come up with a mechanism for mixing the gas with air before it
enters the cylinder chamber. The internal combustion engine was born!

By the way it took nearly a decade to replace the in-cylinder Cuban
cigars by the invention known as the spark plug. Early ignition coils
were powered by banks of potatoes with zinc and copper electrodes stuck
into them.

(The web page http://latteier.com/potato/ gives a good gist of this).

There were folks who grumbled about how their old-fashioned steam cars
could be made to start and run on whatever available material that
could be found that would burn, plus whatever water one could find.