Dark Side of Hybrid Vehicles

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 16:49:56 GMT, "FanJet" >
> wrote:
>
>>>> How do they recharge it at night?
>>>
>>> They have retrofitted a line voltage charging system, an option
>>> available only if you have a hybrid system to start with.
>>> Manufacturers are considering adding this as standard equipment to
>>> their hybrid vehicles.
>>
>> Which does nothing but move the pollution upstream and make it
>> virtually impossible to accurately calculate MPG.
>
> So let me get this straight. You keep whining that hybrids don't have
> any energy source but gasoline, but when someone tells you about a
> hybrid which does have a second energy source, you whine about that
> too. If they got 5% of their energy from hydrocarbons emitted into
> the air by vehicle refueling, would you complain that they were
> stealing your gas?

Needing to repeatedly point out the obvious isn't whining and charging
batteries via house wiring isn't new.
Sniffing gas fumes would be humorous but you'd need a permanent connection
for figures like you're guessing - about as practical as an extension cord
for your hybrid.

In article >, FanJet27
@hotmail.com says...
> Gordon McGrew wrote:
> > On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 17:49:20 GMT, "FanJet" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>> Steve Bigelow > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> How does it compare to the Smart fortwo?
> >>>
> >>> Some Canadians are citing 65mpg on the highway in the smartfortwo,
> >>> which would seem to be 54MPG US.
> >>>
> >>> Canadians are reporting 88MPG highway with the Insight (73 US MPG).
> >>>
> >>> What would a smart car get with a hybrid option?
> >>> An Insight without the hybrid?
> >>
> >> There's no need for a hybrid option but there is a need for the
> >> Smart in the US.
> >
> > Why is there a need for the Smart when you can get better milage out
> > of the gasoline-as-the-onlly-energy-source Insight?
>
> The Smart doesn't consume gasoline and it's very unlikely the Insight gets
> 73 US MPG irrespective of conditions.

The Smart as delivered in the USA will be a gasoline version.
Canadians will get the diesel version.

The EPA rating for the 2005 Insight M/T is 60/66, so 73 is a possiblity
with careful driving.

--Gene

"Gene S. Berkowitz" > wrote in message
.net...

> The Smart as delivered in the USA will be a gasoline version.
> Canadians will get the diesel version.

Canadians _have_ the diesel version.

FanJet > wrote:
> The Smart doesn't consume gasoline and it's very unlikely the Insight gets
> 73 US MPG irrespective of conditions.

That belies the "only source of energy" that you repeat frequently. It's
oil, not diesel or gasoline, for the Smart and most other cars.

I picked posted results for each because that would seem to be the folks
from the hyper-miler class, squeezing miles out of their barrel of oil.
I stayed with Canadian posts, so I could keep the Smart in context.

There are hypermilers in the US that report 90MPG with the Insight.

The Smart is estimated at 51/61 USMPG (and 19.8 seconds 0-60).
The Insight is rated at 60/71 USMPG (and 10.6 seconds 0-60).

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

FanJet > wrote:
> The Smart doesn't consume gasoline

The Dark Side of Diesel:
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/english/faq/a...re=3228&text=N

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

In article >, wrote:

> FanJet > wrote:
> > The Smart doesn't consume gasoline
>
> The Dark Side of Diesel:
> http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/english/faq/a...re=3228&text=N

Hello,
I might have missed it but does anyone know of a website where I can see a
picture of the "Smart" vehicle?

I wanted to comment on those people that mentioned that want to develop a
system where they can easily charge the batteries in their Hybrid vehicle.

Do other people agree or disagree that those people that charge the
batteries that they might end up getting more MPG but their electrical
utility bills will be higher and the utility companies will have to burn
more oil to run their generators. In other words, in the long run--they
might not be saving any money in the long run.

Jason

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Jason > wrote:

> I might have missed it but does anyone know of a website where I can see a
> picture of the "Smart" vehicle?

http://www.threepointmotors.com/smart/index.asp is a Canadian Dealer.

> Do other people agree or disagree that those people that charge the
> batteries that they might end up getting more MPG but their electrical
> utility bills will be higher and the utility companies will have to burn
> more oil to run their generators. In other words, in the long run--they
> might not be saving any money in the long run.

This is the subject of "well to wheel" comparisons. How much does it help,
if any, to move the generation of the power from one place to another,
including the inefficiencies in transport.

Time of day metering might be mandatory for an Electric car owner, charging
up at night.

Solar power could be used for charging the electric vehicle, in a home
setup.

Nuclear/Geothermal/Hydro could be the source of the electricity, reducing
the need for non-renewable and foreign resources.

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Jason wrote:

> In article >, wrote:
>
>
>>FanJet > wrote:
>>
>>>The Smart doesn't consume gasoline
>>
>>The Dark Side of Diesel:
>>http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/english/faq/a...re=3228&text=N

As a historian I would remind the NG that the ICE was seen as a clean
alternative to horse power and the tons of manure the horses left on
city streets every day. Manure was sticky mud when wet and choking
coulds of dust when dry.

Sparky Spartacus > wrote:
>>>The Dark Side of Diesel:
>>>http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/english/faq/a...re=3228&text=N

> As a historian I would remind the NG that the ICE was seen as a clean
> alternative to horse power and the tons of manure the horses left on
> city streets every day. Manure was sticky mud when wet and choking
> coulds of dust when dry.

Replacing all of the cars currently on the road with an equivalent number
of horses would lead to environmental problems very quickly.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

"Jason" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> wrote:
>
>> FanJet > wrote:
>> > The Smart doesn't consume gasoline
>>
>> The Dark Side of Diesel:
>> http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/english/faq/a...re=3228&text=N
>
> Hello,
> I might have missed it but does anyone know of a website where I can see a
> picture of the "Smart" vehicle?
>

Google owns you.

smart.com