Dark Side of Hybrid Vehicles

user wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:42:52 GMT, Elle > wrote:
>
>>"user" > wrote
>>E wrote
>>
>>>>The New Yorker had a great report a couple of years ago on the testing
>>
>>of
>>
>>>>SUVs, proving positive that they are unsafer.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not so sure that I'd even agree that they're relatively unsafe.
>>>The problem I see is that, barring mini-SUV's like the Subaru Legacy,
>>>they are trucks, and need to be driven like trucks - you need
>>>to account for the larger mass, higher center of gravity, generally
>>>longer stopping distances in wet/snowy conditions, and so on.
>>
>>The New Yorker article would really be worth any interested person's time,
>>IMO.
>>
>>Like you imply, certain (many?) SUVs are in fact some top contraption that
>>looks like a truck top but thrown onto literally a passenger car chassis.
>>
>>But
>>
>>>when the average nut climbs into his Ford Behemoth with the leather
>>>seats, climate control, and a ride as soft as a Buick Century, they
>>>*think* they're still driving a car. Until they end up in the ditch. ;-)
>>>Honestly, when it comes down to it, nearly any vehicle can
>>>be driven safely as long as it has a decent suspension, and appropriate
>>>tires for the conditions. It's just that most people don't.
>>
>>When it comes down to it, one has to consider the psychology behind people's
>>driving habits.
>>
>>So you don't give a testosterone laden 16-year-old boy a muscle car, period.
>
> Uh oh, I was a testosterone laden 17 year old boy who bought a 5L
> Mustang. ;-) Which was, if I may say, absolutely the worst possible
> car to drive in the snow. Ever. Even with excellent tires.
>
>>>>> And then there are all the people who complain that they need cargo
>>>>>space. As a family who takes 4 people - including a toddler and a 4
>>>>>year old, with all the extra stuff they need - on week long vacations
>>>>>where we have to bring our own towels, bed linens ( which take up a LOT
>>>>>of room ), portable crib, etc, in a 4 door Civic, all I can say is,
>>>>>"Why haven't you learned how to pack?" :-) Sometimes we have to
>>>>>use a roof bag, but buying as huge vehicle for activities that happen
>>>>>just a couple times a year is simply insane.
>>>>>
>>>>> For some reason, people keep asking me if I REALLY am a
>>>>>conservative Republican. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>Ha.
>>>>
>>>>I know a couple who drive _two_ SUVs with Kerry/Edwards stickers still
>>
>>on
>>
>>>>them. I don't know how they can call themselves the liberals they claim
>>>>to be!
>>>
>>> Being a liberal doesn't mean you're an enviromentalist,
>>
>>It does to me. It also means you don't try to keep up with the Joneses.
>>
>>In fact, this couple I know are otherwise huge recyclers and
>>environmentalists.
>
> It really depends on how you're using "liberal"

In the modern US political parlance "liberal" is used as a pejorative to
refer to anyone not toeing the neocon/GOP party line. It's used
interchangeably with "commie", "pinko", "fag", "feminazi", etc. IOW, it
has no meaning.

Sparky Spartacus wrote:
> Abeness wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Could we end up with monstrous sinkholes where oil is being extracted?
>
>
> At last, peace in the Middle East.
>
> Maybe we should encourage consumption?

LOL! If only it were that easy... <g>

Abeness wrote:
> Sparky Spartacus wrote:
>
>> Abeness wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Could we end up with monstrous sinkholes where oil is being extracted?
>>
>>
>>
>> At last, peace in the Middle East.
>>
>> Maybe we should encourage consumption?
>
>
> LOL! If only it were that easy... <g>

<wisely> Somtimes it must be difficult to be truly easy, Grasshopper.

> wrote:

> The Honda Civic HX seems to have some of the Civic Hybrid features, minus
> the hybrid and the regen braking, and it falls a little short in the mpg
> department.


The HX has none of the hybrid's feature. It has a special lean burning
engine. it seems like 05 will be the last year for it.

FanJet > wrote:

> Bebop wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> I would stay away from hybrids. Saw one die in the middle of
> >> traffic - no power and creating massive backups. The industry will
> >> eventually go to hydrogen systems, but never electric.
> >
> > The hybrid is not true electric, thus the word "hybrid".
>
> Actually, they're true gasoline since that's their *only* power source.
> "Hybrid" is a spin that gets people to purchase something they otherwise
> wouldn't.


Not excatly, you can run the car on battery alone. But you will not get
far on it. Some people have managed to alter the program on the car's
CPU and allows it to run longer on battery and recharge it at night to
get better mileage.

A true gasoline car of the same displacment will not get that kind of
mileage, but a hybrid will.

"Sparky Spartacus" > wrote
E
> >> Being a liberal doesn't mean you're an enviromentalist,
> >
> > It does to me.
>
> Last I looked, you haven't been appointed to speak on behalf of
> "liberals" (whatever they are).

You have a problem with people posting an opinion? Note the qualification,
"to me."

You haven't been appointed government censor.

"Sparky Spartacus" > wrote
E wrote
> > I know a couple who drive _two_ SUVs with Kerry/Edwards stickers still
on
> > them. I don't know how they can call themselves the liberals they claim
to
> > be!
>
> Maybe they're Democrats, not liberals?

You need a course in reading comprehension.

Bebop > wrote:
> > wrote:

>> The Honda Civic HX seems to have some of the Civic Hybrid features, minus
>> the hybrid and the regen braking, and it falls a little short in the mpg
>> department.


> The HX has none of the hybrid's feature. It has a special lean burning
> engine. it seems like 05 will be the last year for it.

What features is it missing?

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

wrote:
> FanJet > wrote:
>> Sure her car is a bit more efficient using techniques such as
>> regenerative braking but these could be put to use on my car too.
>
> I'm not sure what you would do with all of the braking regenerative
> power. You've said that before, ignoring that it is a lot of power,
> more than is going to fit in your standard 12v battery, and more than
> you will consume in playing the radio and starting the car in between
> braking.

Nor I but we certainly could think about it. I'm sure we could come up with
something.

>> The real reason her car is more efficient than mine has nothing to do
>> with batteries or electric motors but is the direct result of the
>> computer control system and an advanced gasoline engine. Naturally,
>> both could be used on my car too.
>
> Why, then, is there no Honda Insight without the hybrid option?
> That should be a very high mileage vehicle in its own right.
> Maybe it would be too underpowered to be acceptable in the US.

Maybe it's because Honda hasn't jettisoned the excess weight and given it a
try.

>> So, when you think current hybrid, you should think Fahrfurnugen,
>> Cab-Forward design or hemi. You might also throw in extra profits &
>> CAFE.
>
> I thought you said the hybrids were a loss for the manufacturers, not
> a source of extra profits. And if CAFE is the goal, why aren't these
> non-hybrid improvements applied across the board?

Not I. CAFE is an average. Doesn't take too many government OK'd calims of
50+ MPG to do the trick.

> The Honda Civic HX seems to have some of the Civic Hybrid features,
> minus the hybrid and the regen braking, and it falls a little short
> in the mpg department.

Really depends on where and how you're driving, doesn't it? No doubt the HX
equals or bests the hybrid in some circumstances. In the end, it takes 745.7
Watts for each horsepower generated by a hybrid - completely ignoring
losses. Except for the small amount generated by regenerative braking, the
rest comes from gasoline.

FanJet > wrote:
> In the end, it takes 745.7 Watts for each horsepower generated by a
> hybrid - completely ignoring losses. Except for the small amount
> generated by regenerative braking, the rest comes from gasoline.

The Honda has a very simple gage for charge/discharge. It's a 15
horsepower motor, which presumably is consuming 745*15 watts when it swings
to a full "assist" on the scale. It also then, presumably generates 15*745
when it swings full scale the other way. The time period when that is
happening is small in the overall scheme of things, but it is not
insignificant. Very light braking generates at least 1/3 of the scale for
extended periods.

The 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid IMA is rated at 15KW/20HP.

And the rest comes from gasoline.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5