What's the best stock 4x4 system for snow?

I'm looking for a 4x4 car that will excel in snowy conditions.
I've had a '91 Jeep Cherokee, a '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport and a '01 Land
Rover Discovery II.
All of them were equipped with stock 4x4 systems, and none of them
impressed me when it came to deep snow capabilities (not so deep that
they landed on their bellies, though. I know that no car can keep on
moving if all four wheels are in the air...).

What I'm looking for is a 4x4 that without modifications are built to
eat through snow with all four wheels turning.
I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
sure.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

And please: I'm looking for unmodified drivetrains - I know I could
add aftermarket locks (ARB etc.) to my Jeeps but I'm looking for the
best unmodified 4x4 vehicle for use in snow...


Best regards,

Christopher
Oslo, Norway

Christopher Grenness wrote:
>

> I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
> 4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
> sure.

As far as I know this is a part-time 4x4. So, no center diff but a
t-case.
Those are always locked in 4WD mode. They all also seem to have a
factory built in limited slip diff in the rear. Not a locker.
Lockers make steering in the snow more or less impossible.
I think still the best idea is a permanent 4WD with open diffs. Like the
Discovery II. Do not stall when driving just keep it rolling.
If you get stuck you can always try the center diff lock to get you out.
Make also sure you have the right tyres for these conditions. Air them
down if neccesary.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

any 4x4 can be good in the snow it all depens on the TYRES. BUY some good
snow tyres.
james

"Erik-Jan Geniets" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Christopher Grenness wrote:
> >
>
> > I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
> > 4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
> > sure.
>
> As far as I know this is a part-time 4x4. So, no center diff but a
> t-case.
> Those are always locked in 4WD mode. They all also seem to have a
> factory built in limited slip diff in the rear. Not a locker.
> Lockers make steering in the snow more or less impossible.
> I think still the best idea is a permanent 4WD with open diffs. Like the
> Discovery II. Do not stall when driving just keep it rolling.
> If you get stuck you can always try the center diff lock to get you out.
> Make also sure you have the right tyres for these conditions. Air them
> down if neccesary.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
> http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

>I'm looking for a 4x4 car that will excel in >snowy conditions.
>I've had a '91 Jeep Cherokee, a '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport and a '01 Land
Rover Discovery II.
All of them were equipped with stock 4x4 systems, and none of them
impressed me when it came to deep snow capabilities (not so deep that
they landed on their bellies, though. I know >that no car can keep on
moving if all four wheels are in the air...).

>What I'm looking for is a 4x4 that without modifications are built to
eat through snow with all four wheels turning.
I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
>4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
sure.

>Can someone point me in the right direction?

>And please: I'm looking for unmodified drivetrains - I know I could
>add aftermarket locks (ARB etc.) to my >Jeeps but I'm looking for the
>best unmodified 4x4 vehicle for use in >snow...


>Best regards,

Christopher
Oslo, Norway

> any 4x4 can be good in the snow it all depens on the TYRES. BUY some good
>snow tyres.
>james
>

yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow effectively,
things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires, number 2
aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny in 4wd
situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited slip
rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find a lot
of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and slush
with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper setup
makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i have
all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny with a
granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i have
yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of yet, and
we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last year a
3 footer + , no problems!


79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg

00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg

98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg

A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD. This is
BAD information!

The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a FULL TIME
4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!

I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you expect, its
ICE!!!

I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best tire you
can get for snow and ice.


>yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow effectively,
>things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires, number 2
>aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny in
4wd
>situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited slip
>rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find a lot
>of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and slush
>with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper setup
>makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i have
>all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny with a
>granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i have
>yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of yet, and
>we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last year
a
>3 footer + , no problems!
>
>
>79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
>
>00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
>
>98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
>
>
>

A full-time case such as a NP203 spins the front axles
all the time, that's why they have manual hubs so you
can disconnect the hubs.
Vehicles with full-time cases prompted people to install
part-time kits in their cases attempting to increase fuel mileage but these
kits usually shortened the life of the transfer case assy.
Part-time cases such as the NP205 enable you to engage 4wd w/o getting out
the truck.
My K10 uses a 12bolt "lincoln-locker" rear axle assy.
and a Dana44 up front w/a locker and manual hubs.
The factory 203 was kicked to the curb and promptly replaced w/a 205 donated
from a '82 K5 and twin-stick from O.R.D.
It don't snow much here in Florida but we do have our share of Sugar Sand
and when it rains we got MUD.
This truck is purpose built for sand & mud,
Leaving the manual hubs in place requires getting out and
walking around as well as selecting 4lo on the shifters when i need
All-Wheel Drive.
the neat part is i can unlock 1 front wheel and have 3
wheel drive if needed for a tight, twisty and slippery trail.
--
Mad Dog



"Master Chief" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD.
This is
> BAD information!
>
> The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a FULL
TIME
> 4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!
>
> I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you expect,
its
> ICE!!!
>
> I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best tire
you
> can get for snow and ice.
>
>
> >yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow
effectively,
> >things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires,
number 2
> >aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny
in
> 4wd
> >situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited
slip
> >rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find
a lot
> >of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and
slush
> >with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper
setup
> >makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i
have
> >all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny
with a
> >granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i
have
> >yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of
yet, and
> >we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last
year
> a
> >3 footer + , no problems!
> >
> >
> >79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
> >
> >00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
> >
> >98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
> >
> >
> >
>

A standard tranny is NOT any better or worse than an automatic in 4WD. This is
BAD information!

The Jeep "SELEC-TRAC" is the best way to go in my opinion. It has a FULL TIME
4WD setting. A good FULL TIME 4WD will help a lot!

I've seen BFG MUD tires spin in packed snow and ice. What do you expect, its
ICE!!!

I learned from this group that the Michelin LTX M/S is about the best tire you
can get for snow and ice.


>yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow effectively,
>things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires, number 2
>aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny in
4wd
>situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited slip
>rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find a lot
>of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and slush
>with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper setup
>makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i have
>all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny with a
>granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i have
>yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of yet, and
>we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last year
a
>3 footer + , no problems!
>
>
>79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg
>
>00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg
>
>98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg
>
>
>

>I'm looking for a 4x4 car that will excel in >snowy conditions.
>I've had a '91 Jeep Cherokee, a '97 Jeep Wrangler Sport and a '01 Land
Rover Discovery II.
All of them were equipped with stock 4x4 systems, and none of them
impressed me when it came to deep snow capabilities (not so deep that
they landed on their bellies, though. I know >that no car can keep on
moving if all four wheels are in the air...).

>What I'm looking for is a 4x4 that without modifications are built to
eat through snow with all four wheels turning.
I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
>4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
sure.

>Can someone point me in the right direction?

>And please: I'm looking for unmodified drivetrains - I know I could
>add aftermarket locks (ARB etc.) to my >Jeeps but I'm looking for the
>best unmodified 4x4 vehicle for use in >snow...


>Best regards,

Christopher
Oslo, Norway

> any 4x4 can be good in the snow it all depens on the TYRES. BUY some good
>snow tyres.
>james
>

yes yes and yes, any part time 4wd system can handle deep snow effectively,
things that help make it better, number 1 is good aggressive tires, number 2
aggressive tires, a standard transmission will outperform an auto tranny in 4wd
situations, its all i will ever drive off road and in the snow, a limited slip
rear dif is very important, a powerful motor helps a lot as well, i find a lot
of 4cyl and 6cyl 4wd's lack enough power to muscle through deep snow and slush
with ease, the 3 vehicles you mentioned are as good as any, but proper setup
makes all the difference, my ram is like a bulldozer in the snow, but i have
all the good stuff, awesome tires, heavy vehicle(7k lbs), a std tranny with a
granny 1st gear, plus 4:10's in the rear, a limited slip, and a v-10, i have
yet to meet a new england snowstorm that has given me hard time as of yet, and
we had some good ones! a couple of 2 footers a bunch of 1 footers, last year a
3 footer + , no problems!


79 T/A WS6 455 ,Hurst 4 spd, Blk w/ t-tops, Heavily Fortified, 4mpg

00 Ram 2500HD QC V-10 4x4,Blk,5 spd,4:10 LSD, 10mpg

98 Intruder 1400, Blk, 5 spd, 25mpg

any 4x4 can be good in the snow it all depens on the TYRES. BUY some good
snow tyres.
james

"Erik-Jan Geniets" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Christopher Grenness wrote:
> >
>
> > I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
> > 4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
> > sure.
>
> As far as I know this is a part-time 4x4. So, no center diff but a
> t-case.
> Those are always locked in 4WD mode. They all also seem to have a
> factory built in limited slip diff in the rear. Not a locker.
> Lockers make steering in the snow more or less impossible.
> I think still the best idea is a permanent 4WD with open diffs. Like the
> Discovery II. Do not stall when driving just keep it rolling.
> If you get stuck you can always try the center diff lock to get you out.
> Make also sure you have the right tyres for these conditions. Air them
> down if neccesary.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
> http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper

Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote in
:

>
>
> Christopher Grenness wrote:
>>
>
>> I've heard that the Mercedes Geländerwagen might have the best stock
>> 4x4 system with diff locks both front, rear and central, but I'm not
>> sure.
>
> As far as I know this is a part-time 4x4. So, no center diff but a
> t-case.

No, that only applies to the first 'utility' generation, which was never sold
in the USA....)

> Those are always locked in 4WD mode. They all also seem to have a
> factory built in limited slip diff in the rear. Not a locker.

Yes, lockers, though optional at least in the early years I *think*.

> Lockers make steering in the snow more or less impossible.

They make steering difficult on any surface (ranging from center to rear to
front lock), but deep snow is not the worst of those surfaces....)


--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]