Opinion on iRacing short falls.

I was listening to the interview with Eric Alexander at Opinion Nation,
especially about leagues at iRacing. Eric says, and I'm paraphrasing,
that iRacing fears that if they allow private leagues then guys will go
"hide" in those leagues and undermine what iRacing is about.

Think about that. If simply allowing private leagues would undermine
their licensing concept, what does that say about the viability of that
concept overall? To me it shows it's a weak concept. I would predict
that if they did allow private leagues that their "driving school game"
would die immediately because it has such small appeal now anyway. And
that contributes to why so few veteran SIM racers want to be involved
with it. The concept is a divider not a uniter.

When you listen to almost everyone talk about iRacing they have as many
negative things to say as positive. I believe it's because they, the
racers, have no control at affecting changes that can improve their SIM
Racing. Racers like the technology of their cars and tracks so they put
up with the game concept, in the short run. But if they could change it,
they would.

Eric's comments hit directly on what's wrong with the iRacing concept.
And that's that, if given the opportunity to do private leagues and exit
the "licensing" system, the "licensing" system would die in short order.
And iRacing knows it. So iRacing demonstrates control by saying if you
want to use our SIM technology you must submit to licensing. Overall the
people I race with resoundingly say "hell no."

iRacing's friendship loyalties to Nim Cross is their downfall. They have
thrown so much time and money at it, as well as creating their own
internal culture of emotional reenforcement, they are paralyzed to
effect change in this regard. Even though the SIM racing public has
already spoken with their wallets. The answer is "no."

iRacing could still monetize their product and increase revenue simply
by letting league managers do it their way. Racers would still have to
buy their cars and tracks to race in the league. iRacing cuts it's own
throat by wanting to execute such maniacal control.

And with all that said, if they don't have the cars I want to race, Indy
Cars, then I'd still be doing rFactor anyway.

Opinion by Niles

PS: All the stuff I said here still applies
http://www.mnrlonline.com/forum/view...hp?f=60&t=5178.

I agree with that. And I'd happily pay per race to race in a proper league.
So mine is money iRacing could have. And there are many more people like me
than there are current members of iRacing, imo.

"Niles Anders" > wrote in message
...
>I was listening to the interview with Eric Alexander at Opinion Nation,
>especially about leagues at iRacing. Eric says, and I'm paraphrasing, that
>iRacing fears that if they allow private leagues then guys will go "hide"
>in those leagues and undermine what iRacing is about.
>
> Think about that. If simply allowing private leagues would undermine their
> licensing concept, what does that say about the viability of that concept
> overall? To me it shows it's a weak concept. I would predict that if they
> did allow private leagues that their "driving school game" would die
> immediately because it has such small appeal now anyway. And that
> contributes to why so few veteran SIM racers want to be involved with it.
> The concept is a divider not a uniter.
>
> When you listen to almost everyone talk about iRacing they have as many
> negative things to say as positive. I believe it's because they, the
> racers, have no control at affecting changes that can improve their SIM
> Racing. Racers like the technology of their cars and tracks so they put up
> with the game concept, in the short run. But if they could change it, they
> would.
>
> Eric's comments hit directly on what's wrong with the iRacing concept. And
> that's that, if given the opportunity to do private leagues and exit the
> "licensing" system, the "licensing" system would die in short order. And
> iRacing knows it. So iRacing demonstrates control by saying if you want to
> use our SIM technology you must submit to licensing. Overall the people I
> race with resoundingly say "hell no."
>
> iRacing's friendship loyalties to Nim Cross is their downfall. They have
> thrown so much time and money at it, as well as creating their own
> internal culture of emotional reenforcement, they are paralyzed to effect
> change in this regard. Even though the SIM racing public has already
> spoken with their wallets. The answer is "no."
>
> iRacing could still monetize their product and increase revenue simply by
> letting league managers do it their way. Racers would still have to buy
> their cars and tracks to race in the league. iRacing cuts it's own throat
> by wanting to execute such maniacal control.
>
> And with all that said, if they don't have the cars I want to race, Indy
> Cars, then I'd still be doing rFactor anyway.
>
> Opinion by Niles
>
> PS: All the stuff I said here still applies
> http://www.mnrlonline.com/forum/view...hp?f=60&t=5178.

"David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
...
>I agree with that.

Replying to your own sock puppet, eh? You didn't fool me.

"The Flam Flim Man" > wrote in message
...
> "David Fisher's Left Testicle" <dfg.myass@aol> wrote in message
> ...
>>I agree with that.
>
> Replying to your own sock puppet, eh? You didn't fool me.
**** off, you ****!

Niles Anders wrote:

> Think about that. If simply allowing private leagues would undermine
> their licensing concept, what does that say about the viability of that
> concept overall? To me it shows it's a weak concept. I would predict
> that if they did allow private leagues that their "driving school game"
> would die immediately because it has such small appeal now anyway. And
> that contributes to why so few veteran SIM racers want to be involved
> with it. The concept is a divider not a uniter.

Sim racing has been a contracting niche since the early copies of
Papyrus' Nascar titles sold in excess of 1 million. In the absence of
any developer led or official sanctioning body grasping the nettle, sim
racing fans have done a pretty good job organising themselves, arguably
better than F1 right now!

However, for potential new sim racers the entry into the decent leagues
is a matter of luck and a simple google search a find plenty of
examples of league forums that have disintegrated into flame wars and/or
fizzled out mid season to a handful of drivers.

For those in the decent leagues their only need is the sim - the rest
they can do, but it is no recipe for expanding sim racing. As long as
the sims keep coming why should they worry?

The reality is the sims aren't keeping coming. The major publishers gave
up on PC sim racing years ago in favour of either console racers or
different genres. The small studios are doing a decent job along with
the home made community mods, yet to attract in major developer is
going to take a significant change in the market.

Many consumers will focus on the now and view iRacing as another boxed
title but with annoying restrictions. Simply feeding the existing niche
community isn't going to justify the development costs. So it needs to
provide the venue for races to pool sim racers for its systems of
getting drivers racing of similar capabilities to experience the quality
of racing first hand and establish numbers to gain momentum for new
racers to come in. We now see the Nascar deal in a timeline where new
fans can join in where there is already an established membership
initially from the existing sim racing community.

To gain this momentum iRacing need to control the numbers through
limiting fragmentation. Fancy running Spec Racers around Daytona for 5
laps? The option isn't going to be there. Sim racers used to zillions of
options of cars and tracks and choosing their own rules wil be
disappointed, yet this is exactly what destroyed pick up racing in the
past. To bring order to this chaos iRacing have grasped the nettle and
there will always be groups who will do something different and there
are alternatives - but they will be the niche groups as we have in all
sports.

If iRacing succeeds it will become the de facto sim racing service which
in my view is exactly what sim racing has needed for many years and may
grow sim racing beyond its ill perceived computer gaming image.

That doesn't mean everyone else packs up, the small studios will still
have niche gaps to fill but we as consumers will have a major developer
in the mix, something that wouldn't have happened without iRacing's
vision for change.

Cheers
Tony

Yep.

To me, all iRacing need to do is offer their sanctioned stuff as well as
let everyone do their own thing.

But is this a flashback to the crackdown on third party stuff for N2003?
Are they threatened by this also? Am I detecting a little paranoia?


"Tony R" > wrote in message
...
> Niles Anders wrote:
>
>> Think about that. If simply allowing private leagues would undermine
>> their licensing concept, what does that say about the viability of that
>> concept overall? To me it shows it's a weak concept. I would predict that
>> if they did allow private leagues that their "driving school game" would
>> die immediately because it has such small appeal now anyway. And that
>> contributes to why so few veteran SIM racers want to be involved with it.
>> The concept is a divider not a uniter.
>
> Sim racing has been a contracting niche since the early copies of Papyrus'
> Nascar titles sold in excess of 1 million. In the absence of any developer
> led or official sanctioning body grasping the nettle, sim racing fans have
> done a pretty good job organising themselves, arguably better than F1
> right now!
>
> However, for potential new sim racers the entry into the decent leagues is
> a matter of luck and a simple google search a find plenty of examples of
> league forums that have disintegrated into flame wars and/or fizzled out
> mid season to a handful of drivers.
>
> For those in the decent leagues their only need is the sim - the rest they
> can do, but it is no recipe for expanding sim racing. As long as the sims
> keep coming why should they worry?
>
> The reality is the sims aren't keeping coming. The major publishers gave
> up on PC sim racing years ago in favour of either console racers or
> different genres. The small studios are doing a decent job along with the
> home made community mods, yet to attract in major developer is going to
> take a significant change in the market.
>
> Many consumers will focus on the now and view iRacing as another boxed
> title but with annoying restrictions. Simply feeding the existing niche
> community isn't going to justify the development costs. So it needs to
> provide the venue for races to pool sim racers for its systems of getting
> drivers racing of similar capabilities to experience the quality of racing
> first hand and establish numbers to gain momentum for new racers to come
> in. We now see the Nascar deal in a timeline where new fans can join in
> where there is already an established membership initially from the
> existing sim racing community.
>
> To gain this momentum iRacing need to control the numbers through limiting
> fragmentation. Fancy running Spec Racers around Daytona for 5 laps? The
> option isn't going to be there. Sim racers used to zillions of options of
> cars and tracks and choosing their own rules wil be disappointed, yet this
> is exactly what destroyed pick up racing in the past. To bring order to
> this chaos iRacing have grasped the nettle and there will always be groups
> who will do something different and there are alternatives - but they will
> be the niche groups as we have in all sports.
>
> If iRacing succeeds it will become the de facto sim racing service which
> in my view is exactly what sim racing has needed for many years and may
> grow sim racing beyond its ill perceived computer gaming image.
>
> That doesn't mean everyone else packs up, the small studios will still
> have niche gaps to fill but we as consumers will have a major developer in
> the mix, something that wouldn't have happened without iRacing's vision
> for change.
>
> Cheers
> Tony

(Byron Forbes) wrote:

> To me, all iRacing need to do is offer their sanctioned stuff as
> well as let everyone do their own thing.

I've been an advocate of a two-tier system for a long time. I see nothing wrong
with the existing iRacing setup for those who enjoy that kind of thing. But
offering a stripped down, but much more flexible version for mass consumption would
make a great advert for the core service and vision.

As yet though, there is no need to generate the kind of revenue a mass-market
oriented product might deliver. I think they're also stretched pretty thin
(talent-wise rather than employee-wise) delivering what they have. High standards
mean you can't just throw programming hours at a project, they have to be the right
kind of hours from the right kind of people. And at this level I suspect that's
quite a small group of very clever people.

Andrew McP

Byron, I have suspected paranoia too. But I think they really want to
own SIM Racing. I know that sounds a little wacky but FIRST is modeled
like the FIA and it appears they want to displace leagues with their
model. I don't think their long term model is good for SIM racing overall.

We've raced together before and I can't remember what league it was
with. But you're Australian, right?

Byron Forbes wrote:
> Yep.
>
> To me, all iRacing need to do is offer their sanctioned stuff as well
> as let everyone do their own thing.
>
> But is this a flashback to the crackdown on third party stuff for
> N2003? Are they threatened by this also? Am I detecting a little paranoia?
>
>
> "Tony R" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Niles Anders wrote:
>>
>>> Think about that. If simply allowing private leagues would undermine
>>> their licensing concept, what does that say about the viability of
>>> that concept overall? To me it shows it's a weak concept. I would
>>> predict that if they did allow private leagues that their "driving
>>> school game" would die immediately because it has such small appeal
>>> now anyway. And that contributes to why so few veteran SIM racers
>>> want to be involved with it. The concept is a divider not a uniter.
>>
>> Sim racing has been a contracting niche since the early copies of
>> Papyrus' Nascar titles sold in excess of 1 million. In the absence of
>> any developer led or official sanctioning body grasping the nettle,
>> sim racing fans have done a pretty good job organising themselves,
>> arguably better than F1 right now!
>>
>> However, for potential new sim racers the entry into the decent
>> leagues is a matter of luck and a simple google search a find plenty
>> of examples of league forums that have disintegrated into flame wars
>> and/or fizzled out mid season to a handful of drivers.
>>
>> For those in the decent leagues their only need is the sim - the rest
>> they can do, but it is no recipe for expanding sim racing. As long as
>> the sims keep coming why should they worry?
>>
>> The reality is the sims aren't keeping coming. The major publishers
>> gave up on PC sim racing years ago in favour of either console racers
>> or different genres. The small studios are doing a decent job along
>> with the home made community mods, yet to attract in major developer
>> is going to take a significant change in the market.
>>
>> Many consumers will focus on the now and view iRacing as another boxed
>> title but with annoying restrictions. Simply feeding the existing
>> niche community isn't going to justify the development costs. So it
>> needs to provide the venue for races to pool sim racers for its
>> systems of getting drivers racing of similar capabilities to
>> experience the quality of racing first hand and establish numbers to
>> gain momentum for new racers to come in. We now see the Nascar deal in
>> a timeline where new fans can join in where there is already an
>> established membership initially from the existing sim racing community.
>>
>> To gain this momentum iRacing need to control the numbers through
>> limiting fragmentation. Fancy running Spec Racers around Daytona for 5
>> laps? The option isn't going to be there. Sim racers used to zillions
>> of options of cars and tracks and choosing their own rules wil be
>> disappointed, yet this is exactly what destroyed pick up racing in the
>> past. To bring order to this chaos iRacing have grasped the nettle and
>> there will always be groups who will do something different and there
>> are alternatives - but they will be the niche groups as we have in all
>> sports.
>>
>> If iRacing succeeds it will become the de facto sim racing service
>> which in my view is exactly what sim racing has needed for many years
>> and may grow sim racing beyond its ill perceived computer gaming image.
>>
>> That doesn't mean everyone else packs up, the small studios will still
>> have niche gaps to fill but we as consumers will have a major
>> developer in the mix, something that wouldn't have happened without
>> iRacing's vision for change.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Tony
>

Niles its me your old friend, PENIS BOY from Rfactor. Hows it going
gay?

yankees baby wrote:
> Niles its me your old friend, PENIS BOY from Rfactor. Hows it going
> gay?

Oh no, Niles, you woke up the 12 year olds...