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  #21  
Old February 15th 12, 07:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_1_]
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Posts: 738
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charlie > wrote:

> Anyway, I'm not happy with the current Miatas at all. They are
> going the same way that the Nissan/Datsun "Fair Lady" did. (From a
> decent sports car to a relatively expensive plushy sporty car.)


I see from the responses here that my original thought that the "C"
type is a nice car but not one about which people can be passionate
seems to be the common thread.

> Bring on a redesigned Miata, with good factory turbocharging, and
> eliminate the unnecessary frills and foo foo.


Turbocharging isn't necessary, Miata's were never about performance,
they were/are about balance, fun, etc. They were the car I 'want' vs
the car I 'need' (ie, mini-van.)


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  #22  
Old February 16th 12, 12:44 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
charlie
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Posts: 66
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On 2/15/2012 1:06 PM, XS11E wrote:
> > wrote:
>
>> Anyway, I'm not happy with the current Miatas at all. They are
>> going the same way that the Nissan/Datsun "Fair Lady" did. (From a
>> decent sports car to a relatively expensive plushy sporty car.)

>
> I see from the responses here that my original thought that the "C"
> type is a nice car but not one about which people can be passionate
> seems to be the common thread.
>
>> Bring on a redesigned Miata, with good factory turbocharging, and
>> eliminate the unnecessary frills and foo foo.

>
> Turbocharging isn't necessary, Miata's were never about performance,
> they were/are about balance, fun, etc. They were the car I 'want' vs
> the car I 'need' (ie, mini-van.)
>
>

We put about 235,000 on an 89 Mazda MPV, and well over 100,000 on an 85
Plymouth minivan. Now that the kids are grown, no more need for a minivan.


A lot of things aren't "necessary". It just depends on individual needs.
"load em up" just creates higher prices, along with a slightly wider
customer base.

On the other hand, turbocharging, done properly by the OEM,
has quite a few benefits.

More power
Better fuel mileage (as long as the driver doesn't have a lead foot)
Possible reduction in emissions (Again of the OEM does things properly
and completely)
Smaller engine displacement to produce the same amount of power
(hopefully reduces size and weight)

Drawbacks - several, unfortunately.
More frequent oil changes, using high quality oil.
Higher underhood temperature, shortening the life of various rubber
hoses, etc.
Fewer mechanics trained properly, qualified and experienced in
servicing/repairing turbocharged engines.
Adaptive tuning and knock protection needed to compensate for fuel
differences. (non turbo'd engines often have similar needs to a slightly
lesser level)

The Miata's do suffer a bit due to lack of power. A "balanced"
power would fall in the 200-300 Hp area. Remember that the rated
power is usually much more than that actually developed in day to day
usage, and is generally not available at the wheels.

My 99
(stock) Rated ~ 140Hp, at the rear wheels 110Hp
(with Turbo) at the rear wheels 200-220 (measured, and based upon 1/4
mile times), detuned for day to day use 160-180 at the rear wheels.

The most noticeable issue with the 99 is that the stock ECU is still
used, and it's a bit slow to respond, due to it's design. Aftermarket
add-ons can only do so much.

One of the more noticeable differences is (naturally) much better
behavior in the mountains. Less need to downshift on hills is just one
example.


  #23  
Old February 18th 12, 12:54 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
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Posts: 587
Default Testing


"Carbon" > wrote in message
news
>
> These new BRZs might be nice, but I really wish Mazda would wipe the
> stupid smirk off the face of the NC and do a Mazdaspeed version. That
> would get things humming again.


I agree totally with the need for a MS Ver again and I mentioned it
(strongly) to Mazda at the Houston Auto Show after asking the person if
Mazda was interested in customer feedback. They said yes, of course! The
Mazda lady that I was talking to takes her NC on the track and many other
people do too. I don't believe the new car is uninspired, I just don't think
it's inspiring enough. Mazda has to be careful obviously, everybody else has
tried to do different things with their little roadsters and they have not
survived!

One thing I can say for sure is that Mazda listens to customer input so, if
you can make some effort, you might even effect change. I also told the
girl, two other things. 1) the nose / face of the car needs to quit looking
ridiculous (clown-like) and more serious and 2) Mazda should be building a
MS3 in the sedan form. I know allot of middle-aged guys who love it's
performance and price (both of which are top of it's class) but that I
didn't know anybody my age who would be caught dead in the (styled for the
teenagers) hatchback version. Here's a whole new market waiting for Mazda
with something between little and no, R&D investment, to take advantage of.

Hey, there was some talk of a special edition retractable hard top version
with sport suspension and Recaro seats now, that could get my blood going
but at over $30k, I can't currently go there so, I'm left out again.
http://www.mazdausamedia.com/content...cago-auto-show
Maybe my 99 is going to have to live forever?! Actually, I don't think used
NC's are that bad of price. Maybe one of these days.

The Elise is a great Miata replacement (performance wise) but try taking a
weekend trip with the wife to the hill country ........ ain't going to
happen!

Oh, I also suggested to Mazda a 3rd thing; Do the MS Miata with the rotary
engine! Call it a Mazdaspeed RX5 Miata. Small engine, low center of gravity
and plenty of power for Mazda's next Miata which is reportedly going to be
super light again, hey, maybe they are coming back to us after all!

Wow, that's allot of typing to a 'dead group' ;-)
Chris
99BBB

  #24  
Old February 18th 12, 01:02 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
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Posts: 587
Default Testing


"Professor" > wrote in message
...
>>

> Take pity on me.... I'm a lurker.
> Always wanted a Miata, had to be practical and bought a Mazda 3 GT
> (Canada).
> Is it just the appearance that puts so many of you off the newest MX-5's?
> Or is the handling, interior etc. inferior?
>
> Professor


This group MUST be still alive, WE HAVE A LURKER! lol
Thanks Professor for speaking up. This space might come alive again some
day.
To answer your question, the Miata is still a great platform, capable of
doing just about anything you want to do with it imho. Aftermarket companies
still make TONS of stuff for it.

Chris
99BBB

  #25  
Old February 18th 12, 11:30 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
charlie
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Posts: 66
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On 2/17/2012 6:54 PM, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>
> "Carbon" > wrote in message
> news
>>
>> These new BRZs might be nice, but I really wish Mazda would wipe the
>> stupid smirk off the face of the NC and do a Mazdaspeed version. That
>> would get things humming again.

>
> I agree totally with the need for a MS Ver again and I mentioned it
> (strongly) to Mazda at the Houston Auto Show after asking the person if
> Mazda was interested in customer feedback. They said yes, of course! The
> Mazda lady that I was talking to takes her NC on the track and many
> other people do too. I don't believe the new car is uninspired, I just
> don't think it's inspiring enough. Mazda has to be careful obviously,
> everybody else has tried to do different things with their little
> roadsters and they have not survived!
>
> One thing I can say for sure is that Mazda listens to customer input so,
> if you can make some effort, you might even effect change. I also told
> the girl, two other things. 1) the nose / face of the car needs to quit
> looking ridiculous (clown-like) and more serious and 2) Mazda should be
> building a MS3 in the sedan form. I know allot of middle-aged guys who
> love it's performance and price (both of which are top of it's class)
> but that I didn't know anybody my age who would be caught dead in the
> (styled for the teenagers) hatchback version. Here's a whole new market
> waiting for Mazda with something between little and no, R&D investment,
> to take advantage of.
>
> Hey, there was some talk of a special edition retractable hard top
> version with sport suspension and Recaro seats now, that could get my
> blood going but at over $30k, I can't currently go there so, I'm left
> out again.
> http://www.mazdausamedia.com/content...cago-auto-show
>
> Maybe my 99 is going to have to live forever?! Actually, I don't think
> used NC's are that bad of price. Maybe one of these days.
>
> The Elise is a great Miata replacement (performance wise) but try taking
> a weekend trip with the wife to the hill country ........ ain't going to
> happen!
>
> Oh, I also suggested to Mazda a 3rd thing; Do the MS Miata with the
> rotary engine! Call it a Mazdaspeed RX5 Miata. Small engine, low center
> of gravity and plenty of power for Mazda's next Miata which is
> reportedly going to be super light again, hey, maybe they are coming
> back to us after all!
>
> Wow, that's allot of typing to a 'dead group' ;-)
> Chris
> 99BBB
>


Mazda has in the past basically said that you can forget ever seeing a
rotary in the Miata. I believe that the emissions and durability along
with cost are the major reasons. Now that the Miata has grown in size
and weight, it might be considered. Look at what happened to the "Z".

Think about a rotary in the front, and a trans-axle in the rear.
  #26  
Old February 18th 12, 03:56 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
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Posts: 587
Default Testing


"charlie" > wrote in message
om...
> On 2/17/2012 6:54 PM, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>>
>>

>
> Mazda has in the past basically said that you can forget ever seeing a
> rotary in the Miata. I believe that the emissions and durability along
> with cost are the major reasons. Now that the Miata has grown in size and
> weight, it might be considered. Look at what happened to the "Z".
>
> Think about a rotary in the front, and a trans-axle in the rear.


Ya, that's an interesting idea. Your right about Mazda's reluctance to go
rotary in the Miata, if they do something like that, they have hinted of it
being a new RX7 which would be fabulous!

Mazda has hinted of many, even radical things for the Miata (remember the
Ibuki concept car?)
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/2...t-ar31762.html
While I wasn't blown away by the looks, the technology is quite amazing and
this was a hundred years ago in 2003!

I don't follow you on the "Z" comment, explain please.

Chris
99BBB

  #27  
Old February 19th 12, 07:58 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
charlie
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Posts: 66
Default Testing

On 2/18/2012 9:56 AM, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>
> "charlie" > wrote in message
> om...
>> On 2/17/2012 6:54 PM, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>>>
>>>

>>
>> Mazda has in the past basically said that you can forget ever seeing a
>> rotary in the Miata. I believe that the emissions and durability along
>> with cost are the major reasons. Now that the Miata has grown in size
>> and weight, it might be considered. Look at what happened to the "Z".
>>
>> Think about a rotary in the front, and a trans-axle in the rear.

>
> Ya, that's an interesting idea. Your right about Mazda's reluctance to
> go rotary in the Miata, if they do something like that, they have hinted
> of it being a new RX7 which would be fabulous!
>
> Mazda has hinted of many, even radical things for the Miata (remember
> the Ibuki concept car?)
> http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/2...t-ar31762.html
> While I wasn't blown away by the looks, the technology is quite amazing
> and this was a hundred years ago in 2003!
>
> I don't follow you on the "Z" comment, explain please.
>
> Chris
> 99BBB


The "Z" reference is to what happened to the Datsun/Nissan "sports car".
It was decent to begin with (other than some carb/manifold problems).
Then, the size, price, and whistles and bells made it into a "luxury
sports car". The original name for the car in Japanese translates to
English as "Fair Lady".
  #28  
Old February 22nd 12, 02:24 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 587
Default Testing


"charlie" > wrote in message
m...
> On 2/18/2012 9:56 AM, Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
>>

>
> The "Z" reference is to what happened to the Datsun/Nissan "sports car".
> It was decent to begin with (other than some carb/manifold problems).
> Then, the size, price, and whistles and bells made it into a "luxury
> sports car". The original name for the car in Japanese translates to
> English as "Fair Lady".



Gottcha! Well, I would strongly suggest that Mazda has not done anything as
horrible to the current Miata as Nissan (Datsun) did when they converted the
'Z' to the 'ZX' (1979). That was a total abomination. I think, more
accurately, the Miata has followed the path of the 240Z's transition to the
last of the 280Z's (1978). While the Visual changes are much more radical on
the Miata, it is still pretty much true to it's original intent imho. I'm
looking forward to Mazda's next move but they've been pretty conservative
lately.

With all of this talk about the new BRZ / Scion 86 (or whatever it'll be
called), maybe Mazda will be inspired to take a little risk.

Chris
99BBB

Interesting note: spell checker didn't recognize 'Datsun' ! lol

 




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