lookin 4

I am looking for a 3 inch body lift. I have a 75 standard beetle. All the
ones i see are 150.00.

Anybody know of any cheaper ones? TIA

Shawn

>I am looking for a 3 inch body lift. I have a 75 standard beetle. All the
>ones i see are 150.00.
>
>Anybody know of any cheaper ones? TIA
>
>Shawn

Actually you probably would not want it if it was offered any cheaper cause the
buckfifty ones are pretty flimsy to begin with. A "good" one I have heard run
in the $300 range.

Some of the craftier guys have built there own in the past, usually stronger
than most anything offered and alot cheaper.

What are your reasons for needing one? There are better ways to "lift" a
beetle of your building an offroader.

Mark Detro
Englewood, FL

66' panel
71' westy
73' baja

>From: mdetro4660

>
> What are your reasons for needing one? There are better ways to "lift" a
>beetle of your building an offroader.
>

Mark is dead on correct here....too many people don't realize that when you put
a "body lift" on that you must them raise your seats, and modify the body where
the steering shaft goes out....these two items can cause a simple
"modification" to become a much larger job....there are other things that *may*
need attention also when raising the body....
-------------------
Chris Perdue
"I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in
the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the
air-cooled legend forward"
Jim Mais
Feb. 2004

>Mark is dead on correct here....too many people don't realize that when you
>put
>a "body lift" on that you must them raise your seats, and modify the body
>where
>the steering shaft goes out....these two items can cause a simple
>"modification" to become a much larger job....there are other things that
>*may*
>need attention also when raising the body....
>-------------------
>Chris Perdue

Great points stuff like that ususally doesn't pop up until its too late!, I was
actually thinking in the perspective of strength (lack of to be exact)
and the fact that it does nothing to increase actual ground clearence.
Allthough in some instances (say a full bodied sedan) you may be forced to do
a body lift but I'd definitly make it a last resort
Mark Detro
Englewood, FL

66' panel
71' westy
73' baja

On 15 Dec 2004 02:28:22 GMT, a (Mark Detro) wrote:

>>Mark is dead on correct here....too many people don't realize that when you
>>put
>>a "body lift" on that you must them raise your seats, and modify the body
>>where
>>the steering shaft goes out....these two items can cause a simple
>>"modification" to become a much larger job....there are other things that
>>*may*
>>need attention also when raising the body....
>>-------------------
>>Chris Perdue
>
>Great points stuff like that ususally doesn't pop up until its too late!, I was
>actually thinking in the perspective of strength (lack of to be exact)
> and the fact that it does nothing to increase actual ground clearence.
>Allthough in some instances (say a full bodied sedan) you may be forced to do
>a body lift but I'd definitly make it a last resort

Does nothing to increase actual ground clearance? Sure it does!
No way, dudes. A body lift gives you the extra tire clearance that
gives you the extra ground clearance (from running larger diameter
tires) without sacrificing the stock "ride" a VW suspension gives you.
Sure you gotta worry about clutch linkage and stuff like that, but
when you start replacing the suspension then you lose the forgiveness
that's built into it. How do you raise the rear effectively? I did
the torsion bar turning and it lifted the crap out of the rear and
also used air shocks but it made for a rough ride and some busted
boots on on the half-axles every time the suspension got fully
compressed and the half-axles hit the frame horn thingies on the
rear...it woulld pinch the boots between the half-axles and the
framehorns....sorry for the techincal descriptions... Don't get me
wrong...I only pinched the boots about 8 times running on 8-9 trips
with that configuration (yeah, almost every time) but... I put a
body lift on my jeep and had to extend the steering column, fabricate
the clutch linkage and extend the filler tube for the gas tank but
those were all trivial compared to redoing the suspension. Oh, and
also had to rethink the emergency brake cable. I think a body lift
on a bug would be a great experiment. If I go that way again then
I'll start out with a 3" lift and if it doesn't work out ok then I'll
break out the saws-all and the welder and try it as a 2" lift....etc.
With the "non-irs rear suspension" (even though they were all IRS)
you get the severe camber thing going on making it unstable, too.
Example: http://bugadventures.dyndns.org/vw/torsion/tn.html
Body lift to give extra room for big tires would eliiminate that
also... Just my thoughts. Would like to hear input back.

---

"Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness."
-James Thurber

>From: mdetro4660

>I was
>actually thinking in the perspective of strength (lack of to be exact)
> and the fact that it does nothing to increase actual ground clearence.

this is a point that needs to be repeated also.....the body lift only creates
more fenderwell area for the *potential* for more ground clearance by makeing
room for larger tires....(which incidently is the only way to gain "true"
ground clearance...)
-------------------
Chris Perdue
"I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in
the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the
air-cooled legend forward"
Jim Mais
Feb. 2004

You know what? I just read through your response and saw a few things
I'd like to yell "bull****" to but just after reading it all and just
before responding I had a sort of deja-vu. And I remembered several
things I'd talked about doing to the LCB that you tried to steer me
away from that I went headstrong into anyway. And then I thought how
I should have listened all along to I wouldn't have to go through the
painful LEARNING experiences I did. And then I thought again and
realized why they pay me the big $$$ at work. It's because I don't
take an answer and accept it without proving it to be true for myself.
So far, Chris, you're Masta Po and have got all of the answers to my
questions right. I would be a bit less of a pupil if I started
accepting all of your answers without questioning them. I don't
intend to start that now. *insert Kung Fu music here to create eerie
effect* OK, now back to reality. Comments inline below. :-)


On 15 Dec 2004 03:26:09 GMT, EMOVE (Chris Perdue)
wrote:

>>From: Shaggie
>
>> Would like to hear input back.
>>
>
>you sure?
>
>
>>Does nothing to increase actual ground clearance? Sure it does!
>>No way, dudes. A body lift gives you the extra tire clearance that
>>gives you the extra ground clearance (from running larger diameter
>>tires)
>
>so you do realize the body lift doesn't give you ground clearance...good....now
>as far as installing a bodylift to give you more *potential* for ground
>clearance by running larger tires, i have two words...(and it is far simpler
>than a body lift) "Baja Fenders"...

I had those and even with the torsion bar lift I had minor clearance
problems in the rear with the 31" tires. Front-end was fine with baja
fenders.

>
>>without sacrificing the stock "ride" a VW suspension gives you.
>
>this only matters to those that want to build a "street baja"...really...if you
>are building a baja for offroad you will usually want to set the suspension
>either really soft for articulation or a bit stiffer(if using stock components
>as apposed to "long travel" parts) to keep from bottoming out and bending parts
>when you actually catch some air....i raised my baja by adjusting the stock
>torsion arms, then used a "reversed" wheel so i could fit larger tires, then
>boxed in the trailing arms, beefed up the shock mounts(upper and lower) and
>used coilover shocks.....it was a bit rough on the street, but one of the
>things i built it for was for high flying, and being able to handle it....

I was just saying the stock suspension on a VW Bug is a good
compromise for ride quality and that as soon as you turn torsion bars
and put in air shocks you lose some of that. Adding a body lift and
larger tires does give you the extra ground clearance without
sacrificing much of the ride quality VW engineered into the car. I
realize the larger tires are larger reciprocating masses (concerning
the up and down motion the shocks make...not talking about anything
circular here) that the shocks have to take into account, but still
the body lift with taller tires is the easiest way I now to give extra
under-body clearance without sacrificing much ride quality.

>
>>Sure you gotta worry about clutch linkage and stuff like that, but
>>when you start replacing the suspension then you lose the forgiveness
>>that's built into it.
>
>but if you have to modify the body and associated systems to fit a body lift
>why not just modify the suspension so it will be more suited for your
>needs?....(forgiveness?)

You have to compromise either way. Here's my confession. I never
looked deep into a body lift on a VW Bug because I had pretty
impressive ground clearance with mine just using the redneck tricks.
I did look into it on a Jeep and the concepts are similar. Body lift
= remove body from frame, put spacers in-between, compensate for parts
that span between body and frame. All you need pretty much are the
spacers between body and frame and a couple of very cheap extension
pieces for clutch linkage and (dependig on platform maybe for fuel
tank). Now with a suspension lift you have to replace the springs and
mounts and all that crap. At least 3X the expense and it buys
you.... more clearance for bigger tires (but not more than the body
lift) and a compromised (compared to factory) suspension setup. Body
lift is $150 or so and keeps all stock springs and stuff. Body lift
is the cheap/easy way to go. I'm sure that "someone" would like to
chime in on this...

>
>>How do you raise the rear effectively? I did
>>the torsion bar turning and it lifted the crap out of the rear and
>>also used air shocks but it made for a rough ride and some busted
>>boots on on the half-axles every time the suspension got fully
>>compressed and the half-axles hit the frame horn thingies on the
>>rear..
>
>the pinching of the boots had nothing to do with the suspension compressing,
>but everything to do with too much drop...

Looking back on it and picturing it in my mind you are exactly right
on that point.

>.that comes with modifying one part
>and not the other parts that it affects(you did add the limiter chains later
>though)

And once I got the length on the limiter chains just right I stopped
pinching the boots but didn't get enough droop to justify the
suspension mods to begin with. Again, I put those chains in there to
keep the half shafts from dropping too low to keep the axle boots from
getting pinched. The only reason the axle boots were dropping so low
is the re-indexed torsion bars were forcing them down violently. For
extra ground clearance. It was stressing the rear suspension. Would
have been much easier to have put on a body lift and run bigger tires
on the rear (because I could with that body lift) to give the extra
clearance... I'm only speaking from experience, and in my experience
I've never run with a body lift on a VW so there's a good possibility
that I'm missing something that might happen as a result of a body
lift on a VW Bug that I didn't mention here. Interesting discussion.
To me, at least.

>
>
>>.I only pinched the boots about 8 times running on 8-9 trips
>>with that configuration
>
>and once you identified the problem it was very easy to fix(since other parts
>had been modified, thorough "testing" should always be done to make sure that
>the "modifications" work with the existing parts)
>
>> I put a
>>body lift on my jeep and had to extend the steering column, fabricate
>>the clutch linkage and extend the filler tube for the gas tank but
>>those were all trivial compared to redoing the suspension. Oh, and
>>also had to rethink the emergency brake cable.
>
>thats alot of work compared to swapping out some springpacks and maybe a
>steering arm....<G>

I haven't performed both procedures, but I've read about them both and
after reading about both proceudres I chose the body lift and it was
pretty damn simple. Just like the stuff I read said it would be...
and much simpler than the suspension lifts I'd read.

>
>> I think a body lift
>>on a bug would be a great experiment.
>
>a very good exercise in patience....

Big difference between bug and Jeep but it took about 4 hours to do
the Jeep body lift and neither I nor my friend David had ever done
that before. I have trouble believing a body lift on a bug would take
longer or even that long...given the right tools.


>
>>With the "non-irs rear suspension" (even though they were all IRS)
>>you get the severe camber thing going on making it unstable, too.
>
>yes trying to use a stock suspension in a manor that it was not designed for
>can be dangerous....if you redesign the suspension, you must follow through
>with it to the end, not just stop once you have achieved the initial goal(in
>this case higher stance)..
>
>> Body lift to give extra room for big tires would eliiminate that
>>also... Just my thoughts.
>
>ahem.....cough*baja fenders*cough

*cough* Been there, used those fenders with 31" tires and grossly
re-indexed torsion bars and still had minor clearance problems.
*cough*

---

"Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness."
-James Thurber

>From: Shaggie

>And then I thought again and
>realized why they pay me the big $$$ at work. It's because I don't
>take an answer and accept it without proving it to be true for myself.

that is an excellent quality...but so is being able to take a good clear
explanation as to why something is not a great idea and save yourself alot of
pain...<G>..

>I would be a bit less of a pupil if I started
>accepting all of your answers without questioning them. I don't
>intend to start that now.

please don't...not for me nor anyone else....i'm just some words on a
screen...but don't discount opinions just because they are that either...


>"Baja Fenders"...
>
>I had those and even with the torsion bar lift I had minor clearance
>problems in the rear with the 31" tires. Front-end was fine with baja
>fenders.

now...you have come to the "otherside'...you can see the limitations of a kit
that is designed for street legality....but where there is a need for
improvements, improvements can be made....but you won't pull those out of a
box...

>
>I was just saying the stock suspension on a VW Bug is a good
>compromise for ride quality and that as soon as you turn torsion bars
>and put in air shocks you lose some of that.

i agree....but the question is, is what you gain worth the loss?

>Adding a body lift and
>larger tires does give you the extra ground clearance without
>sacrificing much of the ride quality VW engineered into the car.

while i somewhat agree here, you have to look at intended use...the bodylift
instead of the suspension adjustment will net you the same thing....more
clearance for bigger tires....but they do it differently....with the bodylift
you get the clearance, but with factory compression rates...meaning softer
suspension...good for street....with the re-indexing of torsion bars you get
the clearance and it takes *more* force to push those pretty new big
mudgrippers into your pretty new fiberglass fenders....good trade in my book...

> but still
>the body lift with taller tires is the easiest way I now to give extra
>under-body clearance without sacrificing much ride quality.

as i said it is all about what you want to do....if you want ride quaility
there are much better systems out there than event he factory suspension...if
you want offroad there too are better ways out there....there are always many
different ways to go, and they all get used....just gotta decide which way
works best in your situation...


>You have to compromise either way. Here's my confession. I never
>looked deep into a body lift on a VW Bug because I had pretty
>impressive ground clearance with mine just using the redneck tricks.
>I did look into it on a Jeep and the concepts are similar.

a lifted vw has very impressive pan clearance.....but as stated, and as with
the jeeps more prominant differentials, larger tires are the only true way of
getting ground clearance......(the concept is similar for the jeep and beetle,
but the similarities pretty much end there...)

>Body lift
>= remove body from frame, put spacers in-between, compensate for parts
>that span between body and frame. All you need pretty much are the
>spacers between body and frame and a couple of very cheap extension

good concept...<G>.

> Now with a suspension lift you have to replace the springs and
>mounts and all that crap. At least 3X the expense and it buys
>you.... more clearance for bigger tires (but not more than the body
>lift)

i agree with some of this...but i have yet to see an 8-12 inch bodylift, yet i
see them for suspension lifts reguarly....the single biggest thing you gain
with a suspension lift over a body lift is suspension travel....but if that is
not of use to you then is a moot point...

> Body
>lift is $150 or so and keeps all stock springs and stuff. Body lift
>is the cheap/easy way to go

cheapest isn't always best....looking at your argument here i see a major
flaw...you are basing the entire arguement on the fact that you can modify your
vehicle cheaply and keep the stock "springs and such"....that is great for
economic reasons, but does not make sense for logical reasons...if the stock
suspension was adequate then why are you attempting to modify it anyway?

>And once I got the length on the limiter chains just right I stopped
>pinching the boots but didn't get enough droop to justify the
>suspension mods to begin with.

i thought you wanted more clearance for larger tires?....has nothing to do with
the "droop" problems you encountered...

>he only reason the axle boots were dropping so low
>is the re-indexed torsion bars were forcing them down violently. For
>extra ground clearance. It was stressing the rear suspension.

i agree with your diagnosis, but not with your last statement...the suspension
was not stressed...

>Would
>have been much easier to have put on a body lift and run bigger tires
>on the rear (because I could with that body lift) to give the extra
>clearance...

easier...hmm....maybe, but then with your cushy stockish suspension and stock
suspension travel you could have had alot of fun bottoming out reguarly whereas
suspension lifts help in this department...

>I'm only speaking from experience, and in my experience
>I've never run with a body lift on a VW

and i have never run with a bodylift on any 4x4 truck/jeep....and for good
reason....<G>

>Interesting discussion.
>To me, at least.
>

i agree...and this is what this board is for...

>I haven't performed both procedures, but I've read about them both and
>after reading about both proceudres I chose the body lift and it was
>pretty damn simple. Just like the stuff I read said it would be...

i get the feeling the bodylift was chosen because it was cheaper and
easier...correct me if i am wrong...

>and much simpler than the suspension lifts I'd read.
>

maybe it is all perception, but i have never thought that totally removeing and
rebuilding the suspension on any vehicle was a major undertaking...(i did
however have a cussing fit with a pneumatic suspension system on a subaru XT
once..<G>)

>Big difference between bug and Jeep but it took about 4 hours to do
>the Jeep body lift and neither I nor my friend David had ever done
>that before. I have trouble believing a body lift on a bug would take
>longer or even that long...given the right tools.
>

i see your thinking...but for someone that has never removed the body from the
pan of a bug, it would indeed take more time than that 4 hours for the
jeep...with a jeep/truck/any vehicle mounted separately to a frame, it is much
simpler to install a bodylift.........

>*cough* Been there, used those fenders with 31" tires and grossly
>re-indexed torsion bars and still had minor clearance problems.
>*cough*
>

*cough* imagine how much fender to tire problems you would have had, had you
not given yourself more suspension travel by re-indexing those torsion
bars...the stock travel and softer rate would have been doom for your
choppergun fenders<G>*cough*

i, for the record, am not condemning a body lift for any vehicle....but there
are advantages and disadvantages...to me the main advantage would seem to be
price, and not much more....
-------------------
Chris Perdue
"I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in
the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the
air-cooled legend forward"
Jim Mais
Feb. 2004

On 15 Dec 2004 05:20:36 GMT, EMOVE (Chris Perdue)
wrote:

>>From: Shaggie
>
>>And then I thought again and
>>realized why they pay me the big $$$ at work. It's because I don't
>>take an answer and accept it without proving it to be true for myself.
>
>that is an excellent quality...but so is being able to take a good clear
>explanation as to why something is not a great idea and save yourself alot of
>pain...<G>..
>
>>I would be a bit less of a pupil if I started
>>accepting all of your answers without questioning them. I don't
>>intend to start that now.
>
>please don't...not for me nor anyone else....i'm just some words on a
>screen...but don't discount opinions just because they are that either...
>
>
>>"Baja Fenders"...
>>
>>I had those and even with the torsion bar lift I had minor clearance
>>problems in the rear with the 31" tires. Front-end was fine with baja
>>fenders.
>
>now...you have come to the "otherside'...you can see the limitations of a kit
>that is designed for street legality....but where there is a need for
>improvements, improvements can be made....but you won't pull those out of a
>box...
>
>>
>>I was just saying the stock suspension on a VW Bug is a good
>>compromise for ride quality and that as soon as you turn torsion bars
>>and put in air shocks you lose some of that.
>
>i agree....but the question is, is what you gain worth the loss?

Not if you can gain it another way without losing.

>
>>Adding a body lift and
>>larger tires does give you the extra ground clearance without
>>sacrificing much of the ride quality VW engineered into the car.
>
>while i somewhat agree here, you have to look at intended use...the bodylift
>instead of the suspension adjustment will net you the same thing....more
>clearance for bigger tires....but they do it differently....with the bodylift
>you get the clearance, but with factory compression rates...meaning softer
>suspension...good for street....with the re-indexing of torsion bars you get
>the clearance and it takes *more* force to push those pretty new big
>mudgrippers into your pretty new fiberglass fenders....good trade in my book...

To a point, sure, but the ride gets pretty "bouncy" when you reindex
the torsion bars enough to give you the tire/fender clearance you need
and when you pump up the air shocks enough to get rid of some of the
bounce you wind up with a very stiff ride. You have to trade off
between the bounch and the stiffness when you do the
reindexing/air-shock thing.

>
>> but still
>>the body lift with taller tires is the easiest way I now to give extra
>>under-body clearance without sacrificing much ride quality.
>
>as i said it is all about what you want to do....if you want ride quaility
>there are much better systems out there than event he factory suspension...if
>you want offroad there too are better ways out there....there are always many
>different ways to go, and they all get used....just gotta decide which way
>works best in your situation...

Of course there's better stuff out there. I'm (as always) talking
about how to do this without having to spend a ridiculous amount of
money on it.

>
>
>>You have to compromise either way. Here's my confession. I never
>>looked deep into a body lift on a VW Bug because I had pretty
>>impressive ground clearance with mine just using the redneck tricks.
>>I did look into it on a Jeep and the concepts are similar.
>
>a lifted vw has very impressive pan clearance.....but as stated, and as with
>the jeeps more prominant differentials, larger tires are the only true way of
>getting ground clearance......(the concept is similar for the jeep and beetle,
>but the similarities pretty much end there...)
>
>>Body lift
>>= remove body from frame, put spacers in-between, compensate for parts
>>that span between body and frame. All you need pretty much are the
>>spacers between body and frame and a couple of very cheap extension
>
>good concept...<G>.

Sure it is, and that's the way it works.

>
>> Now with a suspension lift you have to replace the springs and
>>mounts and all that crap. At least 3X the expense and it buys
>>you.... more clearance for bigger tires (but not more than the body
>>lift)
>
>i agree with some of this...but i have yet to see an 8-12 inch bodylift, yet i
>see them for suspension lifts reguarly....the single biggest thing you gain
>with a suspension lift over a body lift is suspension travel....but if that is
>not of use to you then is a moot point...

Oh, sure. I won't argue with you about any of that.

>
>> Body
>>lift is $150 or so and keeps all stock springs and stuff. Body lift
>>is the cheap/easy way to go
>
>cheapest isn't always best....looking at your argument here i see a major
>flaw...you are basing the entire arguement on the fact that you can modify your
>vehicle cheaply and keep the stock "springs and such"....that is great for
>economic reasons, but does not make sense for logical reasons...if the stock
>suspension was adequate then why are you attempting to modify it anyway?

I'm aware cheapest isn't always best. Sounds silly to hear someone
even offer that up as "advice." Major flaw in my argument? We're
arguing? The stock suspension was adequate and still is. I'm not
trying to modify it. I'm just trying to get more ground clearance.
Body lift along with oversized tires will do exactly that. No flaw in
that "logic." That's just the way it is.

>
>>And once I got the length on the limiter chains just right I stopped
>>pinching the boots but didn't get enough droop to justify the
>>suspension mods to begin with.
>
>i thought you wanted more clearance for larger tires?....has nothing to do with
>the "droop" problems you encountered...
>
>>he only reason the axle boots were dropping so low
>>is the re-indexed torsion bars were forcing them down violently. For
>>extra ground clearance. It was stressing the rear suspension.
>
>i agree with your diagnosis, but not with your last statement...the suspension
>was not stressed...

Sure it was. When I re-indexed the torsion bars, it was just like
winding a spring up tighter so it uncoiled harder and forced the
axles/wheels/tires down further to give more lift and more tire/fender
clearance. When I added the limiting chains, it made it so that the
axles/wheels/tires would not be able to go down as far, limiting the
amount of lift I was getting and the tire/fender clearance.

>
>>Would
>>have been much easier to have put on a body lift and run bigger tires
>>on the rear (because I could with that body lift) to give the extra
>>clearance...
>
>easier...hmm....maybe, but then with your cushy stockish suspension and stock
>suspension travel you could have had alot of fun bottoming out reguarly whereas
>suspension lifts help in this department...

That depends on driving style to a large degree and I was never one to
tear through the trails. Maybe a mud puddle or two, but for the most
part my offroading in the baja and the jeep was at very slow speeds.

>
>>I'm only speaking from experience, and in my experience
>>I've never run with a body lift on a VW
>
>and i have never run with a bodylift on any 4x4 truck/jeep....and for good
>reason....<G>
>
>>Interesting discussion.
>>To me, at least.
>>
>
>i agree...and this is what this board is for...
>
>>I haven't performed both procedures, but I've read about them both and
>>after reading about both proceudres I chose the body lift and it was
>>pretty damn simple. Just like the stuff I read said it would be...
>
>i get the feeling the bodylift was chosen because it was cheaper and
>easier...correct me if i am wrong...

You are exactly right. Cost less, easier to perform, and got me the
lift I wanted.

>
>>and much simpler than the suspension lifts I'd read.
>>
>
>maybe it is all perception, but i have never thought that totally removeing and
>rebuilding the suspension on any vehicle was a major undertaking...(i did
>however have a cussing fit with a pneumatic suspension system on a subaru XT
>once..<G>)

It might not be a major undertaking, but it's much more involved than
putting a body lift on.

>
>>Big difference between bug and Jeep but it took about 4 hours to do
>>the Jeep body lift and neither I nor my friend David had ever done
>>that before. I have trouble believing a body lift on a bug would take
>>longer or even that long...given the right tools.
>>
>
>i see your thinking...but for someone that has never removed the body from the
>pan of a bug, it would indeed take more time than that 4 hours for the
>jeep...with a jeep/truck/any vehicle mounted separately to a frame, it is much
>simpler to install a bodylift.........

I can't argue with that since like you said I've never removed the
body from the pan on a bug before.

>
>>*cough* Been there, used those fenders with 31" tires and grossly
>>re-indexed torsion bars and still had minor clearance problems.
>>*cough*
>>
>
>*cough* imagine how much fender to tire problems you would have had, had you
>not given yourself more suspension travel by re-indexing those torsion
>bars...the stock travel and softer rate would have been doom for your
>choppergun fenders<G>*cough*

I think that if I'd had a body lift and air shocks I'd have been
better off. Reindexing the torsion bars does cause a "spring" to
creep into the ride and that springiness is what causes the tires to
bounce up into the fenderwells. I'd have had the same fender/tire
clearance with the body lift, but not extra springiness, and air
shocks to help tame the tires if they tried to smash the precious
chopper-gun fenders after hitting a bump.

>
>i, for the record, am not condemning a body lift for any vehicle....but there
>are advantages and disadvantages...to me the main advantage would seem to be
>price, and not much more....

I think that's also the main advantage and for my offroad driving
style I don't see any major disadvantages, and didn't experience any
disadvantages when I ran with a body lift on the jeep. If I had all
the time and $ I wanted to "do it right" I'd do a combination of
suspension and body lift. I don't have all I want of either of those
things, though, so for now I'll just have to "shag" it. :-)


---

"Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness."
-James Thurber

>From: Shaggie

>I think that if I'd had a body lift and air shocks I'd have been
>better off. Reindexing the torsion bars does cause a "spring" to
>creep into the ride and that springiness is what causes the tires to
>bounce up into the fenderwells.

this doesn't make sense....if the torsion bars are "stressing" the suspension
to force the wheels down, they would be more resistant to any upward force
causing the tires to bounce up into the fenderwells....but i guess anything is
possible...

> I'd have had the same fender/tire
>clearance with the body lift, but not extra springiness, and air
>shocks to help tame the tires if they tried to smash the precious
>chopper-gun fenders after hitting a bump.

the airshocks were a large part of the "problem" you report...the airshocks
made your ride harsh, not so much the re-indexed torsion bars...the airshocks
job is to add weight carrying/load leveling charactoristics and that make the
force needed to compress the suspension greater, resulting in a harsher
ride....ideally you want a "lift" that will allow you to do what you want to do
clearance wise and NOT have to use "airshocks" which are more of a hinderance
than anything....

>I think that's also the main advantage and for my offroad driving
>style I don't see any major disadvantages, and didn't experience any
>disadvantages when I ran with a body lift on the jeep.

well that is what is important....i tend to recommend a suspension lift on
pretty much any vehicle that needs a lift, because it is usually a complete
system modification instead of a few spacers....but whatever works for the
individual to get tthe desired results is the way to go...what works for you
may not work for me, and vice versa...

> so for now I'll just have to "shag" it. :-)

don't see how that would get you any extra lift, but go for it...<G>
-------------------
Chris Perdue
"I'm ever so thankful for the Internet; it has allowed me to keep a finger in
the pie and to make some small contribution to those younger who will carry the
air-cooled legend forward"
Jim Mais
Feb. 2004