Help! iRacing resistance breaking down thanks to Week13 fun races

(Tony R) wrote:

> Given everyone will have the opportunity to run the SRF next week I
> think this is for those who wanted the SRF at some of the other
> tracks.

You might be right Tony. And for all I know they might put the SRF at a different
24 hours of fun track all week, so it's early to be judging the WG decision.

Either way, the SRF is a great addition to the stable... though on a triplehead
setup those mirrors seem to fill most of the side monitors. It's like having wings!
Of entirely the wrong kind. :-) Mind you, I do worry that I might end up enjoying
the SRF more than the Skip now... it's nice to drive a car which really responds
off the line. The Skip Barber's Achilles' heel has always been its limp-wristed
idea of a fast getaway. Or maybe it's just the way I drive? :-)

Anyway, for all its frustrating elements, there are signs that iRacing are
listening and making sensible changes. At this rate, by the time John Henry goes
broke they might actually have a success on their hands! :->

Andrew McP

PS I just realised I made a mistake with the comment about how many people raced
last week. It was more like 2.2k, with 3.5k racing at some point in the last 4
weeks. The 5.5k was how many people competed at some point in the last 12 week
season.

"Andrew MacPherson" > wrote in message
...
> (Tony R) wrote:
>
>> Given everyone will have the opportunity to run the SRF next week I
>> think this is for those who wanted the SRF at some of the other
>> tracks.
>
> You might be right Tony. And for all I know they might put the SRF at a
> different
> 24 hours of fun track all week, so it's early to be judging the WG
> decision.
>
> Either way, the SRF is a great addition to the stable... though on a
> triplehead
> setup those mirrors seem to fill most of the side monitors. It's like
> having wings!
> Of entirely the wrong kind. :-) Mind you, I do worry that I might end up
> enjoying
> the SRF more than the Skip now... it's nice to drive a car which really
> responds
> off the line. The Skip Barber's Achilles' heel has always been its
> limp-wristed
> idea of a fast getaway. Or maybe it's just the way I drive? :-)
>
> Anyway, for all its frustrating elements, there are signs that iRacing are
> listening and making sensible changes. At this rate, by the time John
> Henry goes
> broke they might actually have a success on their hands! :->
>
> Andrew McP
>
> PS I just realised I made a mistake with the comment about how many people
> raced
> last week. It was more like 2.2k, with 3.5k racing at some point in the
> last 4
> weeks. The 5.5k was how many people competed at some point in the last 12
> week
> season.
>

Perhaps its due to 12 weeks of running the Radical (understeering
hyperactive little rat that it is) but I'm having a tough time coming to
grips with the Spec Racer. For a rear engined car it surely does want to
swap ends under deceleration. Nice enough car but the merest twitch of the
wheel and I'm backing into a barrier. A gift horse is still a nice thing
I'd suspect this would fit tracks like Lime Rock and Summit point nicely

Dave

(DavErb) wrote:

> For a rear engined car it surely does want to
> swap ends under deceleration

I've seen people say it's easier to drive than the Skip Barber. I find it's quite
the opposite, though this may be because I use a *really* conservative setup in the
Skip, and have dialled the brake bias back as far as it will go (55) in the SRF.
That helped me a little, but learning to be much more careful with my loud pedal
made a bigger difference. You really do have to drive this car with the pedals
rather than the wheel!

I'm managing to resist buying Watkins Glen so far (after all, it's an A&B class
track and I'm never planning to race up there), despite movies like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtj8F0jioQI&fmt=22 making it hard to resist the
opportunity for big fields. Next week's official races will be a lot smaller, sadly,
but the shorter tracks should -- as you say -- provide some excellent racing.

Andrew McP

PlowBoy, wrote:
> I hate hunting for the latest
> rfactor/mod/track patch combination that works relatively well, and
making
> them easily to install for you and your 11 friends...

In the case of my leagues, we install the mod and tracks we are running
that season and then it's done. This season we ran the same mod again,
so no hunting or hating. We did install 6 additional tracks that our
league manager had one download link to and that took 2 minutes. Still
no hating.

rFactor works well for interactive and more serious SIM Racers. Well run
rFactor leagues have most if not all the benefits of iRacing. However,
iRacing does have some value for the part time SIM Racers.

> WIth rfactor I would hunt for 3 hours, (give or take) upgrade the mod,
> track whatever. and goto bed and hope the next night I would still be
> current enough to get in a race...

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. rFactor is much more mature now. rFactor
has so many people working on stuff it will be very difficult for
iRacing to ever match the options available rFactor.

3 of the 5 top iRacing road racers will be in rFactor races this week.
From talking to them you wouldn't think iRacing was the end-all be-all.

PlowBoy wrote:
>
> "Part 2"


>
> Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A:
> bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to?

I prove myself every race I'm in, or at least make an attempt to be a
good racer. I have proved myself as a capable racer.

>
> I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of
> course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please.

Huh!? Even though I have friends that have tried or have made a go at
iRacing, many of them come back to their rFactor leagues because of
what's missing at iRacing. iRacing needs changing and there is nothing
the individual can do to effect change. Where-as in many rFactor leagues
that person has an affective voice.

The weight of the internal politics at iRacing and persistence at
clinging to the SIM drivers school turns me and many SIM Racers off.
It's the same people that alienated the community in '04 and '05 and now
they want us to pay their salaries while they really try to figure out
what they are doing. It's unattractive and as it settles in with most
people and they find themselves helpless to effect any chance to improve
their experience, they leave. On their return to their rFactor leagues
they say things like "I won't being doing anymore iRacing." "I can't
believe it took 5 years to do that." "I couldn't race with my friends."
"They don't have the car I want to race." "I don't get to race the car I
want to race." "My team can't race together." And 100 more "no you
can't's" Where as with rFactor "can I do ....?" The answer is always "yes."

By creating such a ridged environment iRacing have drastically limited
the people who want to be involved. And the "first impression" they have
made is not always good. Even if they do change now, they again have
alienated so many people with their arrogance, people won't return.

Is that not what
> youre saying?

No. See above.

> You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who
> would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being
> genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem.

I have iRaced. But right from the top, my team didn't have a server to
go in an develop setups as a team and that ended our involvement after
30 days. Even though the Soltice is barely enjoyable I tried it for a
month. We got to where we could start making setups but there wasn't a
facility for us to do our team development. At iRacing there is too much
"no" you can't do that. But on the top of the list is how they setup a
scenario to break up teams and leagues. And that's why I continue to see
people leaving iRacing's maniacal control.

>
> Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race
> jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers
> are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that
> yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars
> to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so
> I didnt hate it as much...

I don't hate any of my rFactor experience. I move away from things I
have hate for. Even just a little.


>
> that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing
> because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought
> process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that
> is all.

I don't hate. Hating is for those who "fear" what they are involved with
and can't make the rational decision to separate themselves from it.


Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws
> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people
> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I
> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time,
> without some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up.
> Dont lie to me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years

Tell me something I don't know.

Good rFactor leagues have rules that have been honed over years of SIM
Racing experience and are usually much more practical then iRacing,
that's why so many are returning to their rFactor leagues.

Now that iRacing's here, I don't know how to race?

"Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing enlightenment."
-- iRacing Zealot.

David Fisher's Left Testicle wrote:
>

>
> 23-years for me, and I feel the same way you do. I know how not to wreck
> and I don't need to pay out a load of money to prove it.

This is a common theme of those that have left iRacing.

David Fisher's Left Testicle wrote:
> What do I hate about iRacing? I like pretty much everything eccept the
> price and fanboys like you.

Plowboy like to put words into others mouths in his effort to kill logic.

>
> "PlowBoy" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Typical Testicular,
>>
>> takes a vid that supports ANYTHING except what you hate about iRacing,
>> what you got and what you are using for evidence was a bunch of "Join
>> the race, it is a game, it don't count, pass and wreck or whatever it
>> is just a game mentality bull****.." called 13th week, where wrecks
>> and ratings don't count, and everyone knows it. Funny still is, that
>> you keep telling all of us you want iRacing to let everyone do this
>> from signup onward! Plus you want it for free, right? Kewl beans.
>>

Niles,

Everything you set in place makes 12 assumptions that you cant assume, here
are some see how many you can think of...
1. that every person that joins iracing, joins a race, has the same damn
"racing values' that you have.
2. that they have even sim raced before signup
3. that they can handle ANY car you give them
4 giva **** less how others get along in a race (win wreck wahtever
mentality)

I think you see the drift.

B. you say you couldnt get on a test server with up to 45 of your iRacing
buddies (like the rest of us have been doing) to develope setups? excuse
me, doesnt seem to be a problem for the rest of us. Oh wait you want some
FREE, self controlled server that you can keep others out of, hmmm seems
stupid to me, you arent hurting anyone and nobody is hurting while you
develope setups, as many of us do using Ventrillo, Teamspeak and what not...

C wasnt but 3 years ago rfactor (when I actually paid for the damn thing)
shipped with 4 cars total. After 6 months there was a lot of **** and about
9 cars that were worth the download. Again all nicely donated, what if in
order for you to get even one mod, it cost 5 bucks, where would you be? IT
could be that way soon when those programmers get laid off, need money and
spend hours on the PC, working on this stuff...

D Individuals make change? Excuse me, but half about what you dont, I like.
so if they fix it for me, you dont, if they fix it for you I dislaike
(theroetically) so how do they do this in real life? they listed to the
whining and suggestions onthe boards, and then the sometimes even have a
poll. Good leaders in ANY organization usually prove to be the ones to
figure out what **** really matters, and matter to the majority. It aint no
different at your rFactor league, just like I pointed out in last post, if I
come on and demand everyone run fixed setups (because maybe i sux at making
setups) the rest of you want open setups, HOW GODDAM much individually did I
affect change for christ's sake? You are telling me your club of raceing
buddies will say OK we do it his way for now on? Give me a break dude

E. Rigid envirement? so you enjoy going to any league race where "anything
goes" ??? I like rigid I guess, I know what to expect, everytime...
Period.

I mean it, I hate cluster****s where they say "this week Daytona, fixed
sets, start at 9, be there by 8:50... then at 910 because joe blow showed
up at 9, and cant join... we still aint started, they decided to run open
sets (because 2 guys have worked all week on them) and well I think you get
the pic. Basically it is easier to join knowing what to expect (schedules
clearly viewable for 12 week sessions are ready 1 week before the 12 weeks
begin.) I dont see your point I guess.

Lastly,

you kept pointing out that I bothered to give facts, and you answer with
crappy "tell me something I dont know", Ok damnit admit that you hadnt
thought about any of those issues and how those things have to be handled,
did you. I didnt say at any point that you might not know this ****, I did
see that you didnt care or think about the solutions to the problems anyone
who tries to run a business of any form has to figure out. All you want is
some form of anarchy, free and ran by whoever gets there 1st I guess?


"Niles Anders" > wrote in message
...
> PlowBoy wrote:
>>
>> "Part 2"
>
>
>>
>> Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A:
>> bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to?
>
> I prove myself every race I'm in, or at least make an attempt to be a good
> racer. I have proved myself as a capable racer.
>
>>
>> I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of
>> course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please.
>
> Huh!? Even though I have friends that have tried or have made a go at
> iRacing, many of them come back to their rFactor leagues because of what's
> missing at iRacing. iRacing needs changing and there is nothing the
> individual can do to effect change. Where-as in many rFactor leagues that
> person has an affective voice.
>
> The weight of the internal politics at iRacing and persistence at clinging
> to the SIM drivers school turns me and many SIM Racers off. It's the same
> people that alienated the community in '04 and '05 and now they want us to
> pay their salaries while they really try to figure out what they are
> doing. It's unattractive and as it settles in with most people and they
> find themselves helpless to effect any chance to improve their experience,
> they leave. On their return to their rFactor leagues they say things like
> "I won't being doing anymore iRacing." "I can't believe it took 5 years to
> do that." "I couldn't race with my friends." "They don't have the car I
> want to race." "I don't get to race the car I want to race." "My team
> can't race together." And 100 more "no you can't's" Where as with rFactor
> "can I do ....?" The answer is always "yes."
>
> By creating such a ridged environment iRacing have drastically limited the
> people who want to be involved. And the "first impression" they have made
> is not always good. Even if they do change now, they again have alienated
> so many people with their arrogance, people won't return.
>
> Is that not what
>> youre saying?
>
> No. See above.
>
>> You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who
>> would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being
>> genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem.
>
> I have iRaced. But right from the top, my team didn't have a server to go
> in an develop setups as a team and that ended our involvement after 30
> days. Even though the Soltice is barely enjoyable I tried it for a month.
> We got to where we could start making setups but there wasn't a facility
> for us to do our team development. At iRacing there is too much "no" you
> can't do that. But on the top of the list is how they setup a scenario to
> break up teams and leagues. And that's why I continue to see people
> leaving iRacing's maniacal control.
>
>>
>> Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race
>> jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers
>> are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that
>> yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars
>> to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so
>> I didnt hate it as much...
>
> I don't hate any of my rFactor experience. I move away from things I have
> hate for. Even just a little.
>
>
>>
>> that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing
>> because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought
>> process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that
>> is all.
>
> I don't hate. Hating is for those who "fear" what they are involved with
> and can't make the rational decision to separate themselves from it.
>
>
> Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws
>> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people
>> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I
>> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, without
>> some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont lie to
>> me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years
>
> Tell me something I don't know.
>
> Good rFactor leagues have rules that have been honed over years of SIM
> Racing experience and are usually much more practical then iRacing, that's
> why so many are returning to their rFactor leagues.
>
> Now that iRacing's here, I don't know how to race?
>
> "Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing
> enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot.

Plowboy, Your arguement doesn't seem compelling and I'm having a hard
time understanding you sometime.

PlowBoy, wrote:
> Niles,
>
> Everything you set in place makes 12 assumptions that you cant assume, here
> are some see how many you can think of...
> 1. that every person that joins iracing, joins a race, has the same damn
> "racing values' that you have.

My racing values are high. Is it that iRacing's racers don't have high
values?

> 2. that they have even sim raced before signup
> 3. that they can handle ANY car you give them
> 4 giva **** less how others get along in a race (win wreck wahtever
> mentality)

that's too bad. We don't have to deal with that in our leagues as we
have high quality high value racers.

>
> I think you see the drift.

That's too bad as I was thinking iRacing was going to be higher quality.
>
> B. you say you couldnt get on a test server with up to 45 of your iRacing
> buddies (like the rest of us have been doing) to develope setups?

No that's not what I said. But it's a good try at trying to put words in
my mouth.

excuse
> me, doesnt seem to be a problem for the rest of us. Oh wait you want some
> FREE, self controlled server that you can keep others out of, hmmm seems
> stupid to me, you arent hurting anyone and nobody is hurting while you
> develope setups, as many of us do using Ventrillo, Teamspeak and what not...

I have my own servers and we use our leagues Team Speak when we're doing
setup development. It's another good try at putting words in my mouth
though.
>
> C wasnt but 3 years ago rfactor (when I actually paid for the damn thing)
> shipped with 4 cars total. After 6 months there was a lot of **** and about
> 9 cars that were worth the download. Again all nicely donated, what if in
> order for you to get even one mod, it cost 5 bucks, where would you be? IT
> could be that way soon when those programmers get laid off, need money and
> spend hours on the PC, working on this stuff...

iRacing's fees have never been an issue for me. I think developers
should get paid for their work. If iRacing would drop their driving
school format I'd buy everything they have in "1 fell swoop."
>
> D Individuals make change? Excuse me, but half about what you dont, I like.
> so if they fix it for me, you dont, if they fix it for you I dislaike
> (theroetically) so how do they do this in real life? they listed to the
> whining and suggestions onthe boards, and then the sometimes even have a
> poll. Good leaders in ANY organization usually prove to be the ones to
> figure out what **** really matters, and matter to the majority.

Here's a quote from Andrew:

"Andrew McP

PS I just realised I made a mistake with the comment about how many
people raced last week. It was more like 2.2k, with 3.5k racing at some
point in the last 4 weeks. The 5.5k was how many people competed at some
point in the last 12 week season."

You can see that iRacing has a very high turnover and their stable
monthly membership is too small to be profitable. Obviously the amount
of people, like you, that like it ain't enough. They will need to make
changes to survive. There is just not enough support to make it viable.
Things will have to change.

There is not enough membership to make their competition system work
correctly and there is doubts now whether the pro division will ever
happen. Also with many top drivers scaling back their participation as
they have return to other SIM I can't see how iRacing can survive
without making substantial changes. Work the numbers and see if you can
project profitability.

It aint no
> different at your rFactor league, just like I pointed out in last post, if I
> come on and demand everyone run fixed setups (because maybe i sux at making
> setups) the rest of you want open setups, HOW GODDAM much individually did I
> affect change for christ's sake? You are telling me your club of raceing
> buddies will say OK we do it his way for now on? Give me a break dude

Huh? Does anyone understand what he just said? I need an interpreter.

>
> E. Rigid envirement? so you enjoy going to any league race where "anything
> goes" ??? I like rigid I guess, I know what to expect, everytime...
> Period.
>
> I mean it, I hate cluster****s where they say "this week Daytona, fixed
> sets, start at 9, be there by 8:50... then at 910 because joe blow showed
> up at 9, and cant join... we still aint started, they decided to run open
> sets (because 2 guys have worked all week on them) and well I think you get
> the pic. Basically it is easier to join knowing what to expect (schedules
> clearly viewable for 12 week sessions are ready 1 week before the 12 weeks
> begin.) I dont see your point I guess.

Huh? Do actually think that iRacing is the only league where people put
together a predictable schedule? You don't get around much do you?

>
> Lastly,
>
> you kept pointing out that I bothered to give facts, and you answer with
> crappy "tell me something I dont know", Ok damnit admit that you hadnt
> thought about any of those issues and how those things have to be handled,
> did you.

You mean this:

>> Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws
>>> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect
people
>>> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I
>>> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time,
without
>>> some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont
lie to
>>> me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years
>> Tell me something I don't know.

When I said "tell me something I don't know" I meant all my leagues have
been organized and don't suffer from the issues you are sighting here.
The people I race with have got it figured out and we don't have to deal
with that kind of member. Apparently iRacing must be full of
under-skilled drivers that crash all the time. We have tossed a couple
idiots over the last year and I hear they ended up at iRacing.

So maybe I'm not thinking right about iRacing. iRacing seems to have
absorbed the the fringe quality racers and the rFactor leagues have
gotten better as the idiots have moved to iRacing. How about that?

"Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing
enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot.


>
>
> "Niles Anders" > wrote in message
> ...
>> PlowBoy wrote:
>>> "Part 2"
>>
>>> Im not trying to be snob, but dayum... so you think you cant be A:
>>> bothered to prove yourself? B: Nobody should have to?
>> I prove myself every race I'm in, or at least make an attempt to be a good
>> racer. I have proved myself as a capable racer.
>>
>>> I mean it is like you are beggin me to "let you in, at your level of
>>> course" wink wink, but keep the rifraff out please.
>> Huh!? Even though I have friends that have tried or have made a go at
>> iRacing, many of them come back to their rFactor leagues because of what's
>> missing at iRacing. iRacing needs changing and there is nothing the
>> individual can do to effect change. Where-as in many rFactor leagues that
>> person has an affective voice.
>>
>> The weight of the internal politics at iRacing and persistence at clinging
>> to the SIM drivers school turns me and many SIM Racers off. It's the same
>> people that alienated the community in '04 and '05 and now they want us to
>> pay their salaries while they really try to figure out what they are
>> doing. It's unattractive and as it settles in with most people and they
>> find themselves helpless to effect any chance to improve their experience,
>> they leave. On their return to their rFactor leagues they say things like
>> "I won't being doing anymore iRacing." "I can't believe it took 5 years to
>> do that." "I couldn't race with my friends." "They don't have the car I
>> want to race." "I don't get to race the car I want to race." "My team
>> can't race together." And 100 more "no you can't's" Where as with rFactor
>> "can I do ....?" The answer is always "yes."
>>
>> By creating such a ridged environment iRacing have drastically limited the
>> people who want to be involved. And the "first impression" they have made
>> is not always good. Even if they do change now, they again have alienated
>> so many people with their arrogance, people won't return.
>>
>> Is that not what
>>> youre saying?
>> No. See above.
>>
>>> You sound (after reading this post Im posting into) like someone who
>>> would really like it, if you would give it a chance, instead of being
>>> genuinely turned so off by what others percieve to be the problem.
>> I have iRaced. But right from the top, my team didn't have a server to go
>> in an develop setups as a team and that ended our involvement after 30
>> days. Even though the Soltice is barely enjoyable I tried it for a month.
>> We got to where we could start making setups but there wasn't a facility
>> for us to do our team development. At iRacing there is too much "no" you
>> can't do that. But on the top of the list is how they setup a scenario to
>> break up teams and leagues. And that's why I continue to see people
>> leaving iRacing's maniacal control.
>>
>>> Did iRacing solve all sim racing problems? Hell no. Do you still race
>>> jerks? yeah. Are some snobs? Hell yes they are, even social workers
>>> are snobs at times. damn. but dont let me sway you, just know that
>>> yeah, you would have to be a rookie and be entrusted with inferior cars
>>> to start with I guess. I think my attitude was different is all, and so
>>> I didnt hate it as much...
>> I don't hate any of my rFactor experience. I move away from things I have
>> hate for. Even just a little.
>>
>>
>>> that is my opinion, you can have yours... I only wasted my time typing
>>> because I "thought" if I could persuade you to take a different thought
>>> process when hating the stuff, think about something more positive, that
>>> is all.
>> I don't hate. Hating is for those who "fear" what they are involved with
>> and can't make the rational decision to separate themselves from it.
>>
>>
>> Think about the problems they do get around. it is like Laws
>>> and rules in real life. Set some basic standards that you expect people
>>> to follow. Just like your damn league was faced with. I know if I
>>> joined yoru league and raced to crash the races out all the time, without
>>> some rule for recourse, your friends would quit showing up. Dont lie to
>>> me either, been runnin in leagues now for 18 years
>> Tell me something I don't know.
>>
>> Good rFactor leagues have rules that have been honed over years of SIM
>> Racing experience and are usually much more practical then iRacing, that's
>> why so many are returning to their rFactor leagues.
>>
>> Now that iRacing's here, I don't know how to race?
>>
>> "Come to iRacing Jesus. It's the only path to SIM Racing
>> enlightenment." -- iRacing Zealot.
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