An observation from today's roamings

On Mar 6, 8:08*pm, richard > wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:50:13 -0600, "John A. Weeks III"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >In article >,
> > necromancer > wrote:
>
> >> Gave me pause to think (yeah, I know that's a strange concept...), is
> >> selling gasoline becomming so unprofitable and/or a pain in the ass
> >> that people are getting out of the business? The second station did
> >> appear as if the C-store was still open, but I don't think they are
> >> selling gas. *
>
> >What I have been told by someone in the business is that many
> >of the independent stations have to pay for their gas up front,
> >COD when the truck comes. *They count on selling the last tank
> >of gas to pay for the next tank. *If they sell a tank at $2.89,
> >and the next tank comes in when it is $3.08, they end up short
> >and cannot afford to refill. *Once they get behind, they never
> >seem to be able to catch up.
>
> >Another trend that I am seeing is that stations are selling
> >all the gas that they can get, so they are cutting back shifts.
> >I see a lot of stations that used to be 24x7 that are no closing
> >at night. *Why bother to take the robbery risk and bother with
> >marginal employees (or work it yourself) when you don't sell
> >any more net volume of gas anyway.
>
> >-john-
>
> Let's do the math here.
> Subtract the state taxes from the pump price + say 3 cents.
> That's what the station pays for it right?
> Maybe not. I believe there is a hidden profit realized by the stations
> that they are not willing to disclose. *After all, how can Shell and
> others kickback 15 cents a gallon to it's customers?
>
> As for paying for the fuel, I believe the stations order a certain
> amount by what they can afford to pay for "upfront". At least that way
> they get some of that fuel in the truck, which may not all be dumped
> at that station. Fuel tankers do have compartments. As I have talked
> to several fuel tankers, they have said that they had more than 5
> stops with one fuel tanker.
>
> Then ask yourself, if a station sees only truck load every two weeks,
> how is it the prices are being changed on a daily basis?
> The fuel has been paid for before the customer sees it in his car. So
> don't be telling me that daily price changes reflect the cost of crude
> oil. Because that price is set months in advance.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good questions to ask about the convenience store industry, Richard.

Next time you stop in at, say, a QuikTrip, examine the price of
coffee. Last I checked it was 69 cents for a cup that might have cost
the store a dime in materials. Usually when I'm on a road trip and
stop for fuel I also refill my coffee cup. Most convenience stores
these days are outlets for lottery tickets: I've lost count on how
many times I went in just for a cup of coffee and had to wait on some
jerk to buy and scratch the damn things. The profit is not made
mainly from the gas prices.

Most convenience stores are franchise-type operations (again, the QT
and Casey's examples). That means some regional manager (or
equivalent) pressure to jack with the prices. Here's a historical
example: one nasty afternoon 2,309 days ago (yep, *that* one), gas
prices went nuts in MO and IL for a few hours. I was working in
Kirksville at the time, and the mainline traffic was backed up due to
lines at the pumps. I needed gas but decided to wait until later to
fill (by 7:30 it was no wait in line). Reports surfaced about $3 gas
in Columbia and $5 in St. Louis (around $1.50 without changing in
Kirksville) before the governors of both states threatened fines for
gouging. On the local TV news, a convenience store manager in Macon
reported being told by a higher manager to raise the prices but
refused because it was the same gas bought at the lower price prior to
the incident.

MLOM:

>Next time you stop in at, say, a QuikTrip, examine the price of
>coffee. Last I checked it was 69 cents for a cup that might have cost
>the store a dime in materials. Usually when I'm on a road trip and
>stop for fuel I also refill my coffee cup. Most convenience stores
>these days are outlets for lottery tickets: I've lost count on how
>many times I went in just for a cup of coffee and had to wait on some
>jerk to buy and scratch the damn things. The profit is not made
>mainly from the gas prices.

I've made that mistake befo stopping at a c-store on the wrong side
of the state line during a fit of lotto-mania (that being when the
jackpot is making headlines and there are lines at the first C-stores
in that state) and people will be literally buying hundreds of tickets
for their pools.

>Most convenience stores are franchise-type operations (again, the QT
>and Casey's examples). That means some regional manager (or
>equivalent) pressure to jack with the prices. Here's a historical
>example: one nasty afternoon 2,309 days ago (yep, *that* one), gas
>prices went nuts in MO and IL for a few hours. I was working in
>Kirksville at the time, and the mainline traffic was backed up due to
>lines at the pumps. I needed gas but decided to wait until later to
>fill (by 7:30 it was no wait in line). Reports surfaced about $3 gas
>in Columbia and $5 in St. Louis (around $1.50 without changing in
>Kirksville) before the governors of both states threatened fines for
>gouging. On the local TV news, a convenience store manager in Macon
>reported being told by a higher manager to raise the prices but
>refused because it was the same gas bought at the lower price prior to
>the incident.

I remember right after Katrina when the Gov of GA and others were
warning gougers that they faced trouble if they jacked prices up too
much. THough the story you relate seems rather prophetic.


--
S&DDAM admits to putting others in danger with its beater:

"Foot pumps are a joke. I had one once and since the piston only moves like
2 inches it took 50 pumps to raise the pressure by one psi. Go with the
hand pumps where the piston moves around 15 inches. One of my tires has
exposed cords and i have to pump it up every week. "

--Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS, 3/6/08
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/yvrmhl
Msg ID:

On 2008-03-07, Scott in SoCal > wrote:

> [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.]

Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks.


>>Ummmmm.... that's on credit cards, and you are paying interest on those
>>cards in most cases.
>
> "You" might be, but I most certainly am not!

Many people don't, but there are still plenty that do.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

["Followup-To:" header set to misc.transport.road.]
On 2008-03-07, Scott in SoCal > wrote:

>>Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks.
>
> Surely there must be a configuration setting in there somewhere that
> can alter that behavior. Have you checked the man page?

No, I need to do so, but there are other things I don't like, like getting
bitched at that one of the lines in my post is more than 80 characters, when
most of the time it's an attribution or a References header. I like slrn in
general, but there are some little things about it (like that) that really
annoy me.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

On Mar 6, 8:33 pm, MLOM > wrote:
> On Mar 6, 8:08 pm, richard > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:50:13 -0600, "John A. Weeks III"
>
> > > wrote:
> > >In article >,
> > > necromancer > wrote:
>
> > >> Gave me pause to think (yeah, I know that's a strange concept...), is
> > >> selling gasoline becomming so unprofitable and/or a pain in the ass
> > >> that people are getting out of the business? The second station did
> > >> appear as if the C-store was still open, but I don't think they are
> > >> selling gas.
>
> > >What I have been told by someone in the business is that many
> > >of the independent stations have to pay for their gas up front,
> > >COD when the truck comes. They count on selling the last tank
> > >of gas to pay for the next tank. If they sell a tank at $2.89,
> > >and the next tank comes in when it is $3.08, they end up short
> > >and cannot afford to refill. Once they get behind, they never
> > >seem to be able to catch up.
>
> > >Another trend that I am seeing is that stations are selling
> > >all the gas that they can get, so they are cutting back shifts.
> > >I see a lot of stations that used to be 24x7 that are no closing
> > >at night. Why bother to take the robbery risk and bother with
> > >marginal employees (or work it yourself) when you don't sell
> > >any more net volume of gas anyway.
>
> > >-john-
>
> > Let's do the math here.
> > Subtract the state taxes from the pump price + say 3 cents.
> > That's what the station pays for it right?
> > Maybe not. I believe there is a hidden profit realized by the stations
> > that they are not willing to disclose. After all, how can Shell and
> > others kickback 15 cents a gallon to it's customers?
>
> > As for paying for the fuel, I believe the stations order a certain
> > amount by what they can afford to pay for "upfront". At least that way
> > they get some of that fuel in the truck, which may not all be dumped
> > at that station. Fuel tankers do have compartments. As I have talked
> > to several fuel tankers, they have said that they had more than 5
> > stops with one fuel tanker.
>
> > Then ask yourself, if a station sees only truck load every two weeks,
> > how is it the prices are being changed on a daily basis?
> > The fuel has been paid for before the customer sees it in his car. So
> > don't be telling me that daily price changes reflect the cost of crude
> > oil. Because that price is set months in advance.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Good questions to ask about the convenience store industry, Richard.
>
> Next time you stop in at, say, a QuikTrip, examine the price of
> coffee. Last I checked it was 69 cents for a cup that might have cost
> the store a dime in materials. Usually when I'm on a road trip and
> stop for fuel I also refill my coffee cup. Most convenience stores
> these days are outlets for lottery tickets: I've lost count on how
> many times I went in just for a cup of coffee and had to wait on some
> jerk to buy and scratch the damn things. The profit is not made
> mainly from the gas prices.

Heh, try spending more time than it takes to buy what you need and get
out of the way and there's a good chance the next person shoves you
out of the way of the counter without acknowledging your presence out
here... Cascadians in general have too much to do in too little time
to bother with someone's smooth-lobed indecisiveness or
inconsideration.

> Most convenience stores are franchise-type operations (again, the QT
> and Casey's examples). That means some regional manager (or
> equivalent) pressure to jack with the prices. Here's a historical
> example: one nasty afternoon 2,309 days ago (yep, *that* one),

Was that the day Bush took office, or the day that all the warnings
Bush was ignoring had a dire outcome, or the day the Bush
Administration suspended habeus corpus when he decided to blame the
American people for ignoring the warnings only he had?

On Mar 7, 7:03 am, Scott in SoCal > wrote:

> Pay-at-the-pump is a GODSEND. The only time I ever set foot inside a
> gas station convenience store is when the pump fails to print me a
> receipt. When I do go in, INVARIABLY there is a long ass line and ONE
> extremely harried cashier working furiously to clear the backlog of
> irritated customers. There have been times I have taken the risk and
> left without a receipt because the line was just too damn long.

Pay at the pump isn't nearly as much of a godsend as paying after you
get your gas is, since then you only have to make one trip inside.
Especially if minimum service is available instead of self service,
then unless you've stopped at an Arco, you don't have to go inside at
all, and you pay less than self-service and don't have to do the gas
jockey's job for him.

On Mar 7, 8:14 am, Steve Sobol > wrote:
> On 2008-03-07, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
>
> > [Sobol's Newsreader Countermeasures engaged.]
>
> Ack. Anyone know of a decent NNTP client? slrn sucks.

slrn is one of the better ones out there, actually. Stick with it.
Or try knode. Though most decent newsreaders discourage following up
to multiple newsgroups.

Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Mar 7, 7:03 am, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
>
>
>>Pay-at-the-pump is a GODSEND. The only time I ever set foot inside a
>>gas station convenience store is when the pump fails to print me a
>>receipt. When I do go in, INVARIABLY there is a long ass line and ONE
>>extremely harried cashier working furiously to clear the backlog of
>>irritated customers. There have been times I have taken the risk and
>>left without a receipt because the line was just too damn long.
>
>
> Pay at the pump isn't nearly as much of a godsend as paying after you
> get your gas is, since then you only have to make one trip inside.
> Especially if minimum service is available instead of self service,
> then unless you've stopped at an Arco, you don't have to go inside at
> all, and you pay less than self-service and don't have to do the gas
> jockey's job for him.

I can't recall ever going to a gas station that didn't require you to
prepay if you didn't pay at the pump.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Mar 9, 3:18 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:

> I can't recall ever going to a gas station that didn't require you to
> prepay if you didn't pay at the pump.

They're more common in places where drive offs are not common and self-
service is uncommon or rare, like Oregon, New Jersey and the western
Canadian boondocks.

Underground storage tanks. Although I thought the deadline was last
year, steel underground tanks are required to be replaced with
composite to reduce seepage into the soils and water table. It's very
expensive to dig up the old tanks and replace them with new.
Sometimes it makes sense to just close down. I've seen a station or
two that quit selling gas and now is truly a "service station"
offering maintenance and repairs only - but those were the older
stations, before convenience stores, that had a garage bay or two.