Impressive auto

In article >, kkt > wrote:

> Alan Baker > writes:
>
> > In article >, kkt > wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker > writes:
> > >
> > > > In article > ,
> > > > (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > ]>,
> > > > > Alan Baker > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >No! Because you're simply assuming that everyone can have their
> > > > > >lives
> > > > > >planned out so well that they'll never suddenly need to have it
> > > > > >charged.
> > > > >
> > > > > >If your car is low on gas, you can fill it up in a matter of
> > > > > >minutes. If
> > > > > >your electric car is low on charge, it will take hours to charge it
> > > > > >up
> > > > > >before you can use it for a previously unplanned for trip.
> > > > >
> > > > > >Human nature then says, "charge it up whenever you can".
> > > > >
> > > > > And everyone charges it up when they get home on Friday.
> > > >
> > > > Wrong. Because even if your electric car has enough range left Thursday
> > > > night to get you to work and back the next day, what if you suddenly
> > > > need it for *anything* else?
> > > >
> > > > Unlike with an IC car, you can't simply hit the gas station and fill
> > > > the
> > > > tank in under 5 minutes, so the only logical reaction is to take every
> > > > opportunity to recharge.
> > >
> > > What you're missing is this is not going to be a family's only car.
> >
> > So then you admit that the electric car is inadequate as a replacement
> > for the IC car.
>
> It doesn't have to replace every car on the road in order to be a
> success. It could be a replacement for models like BMW Z4, Honda
> S2000, etc. How many of those are the owning family's only car?
>
> -- Patrick

I don't know, but I'm also sure you don't.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

In article >,
Scott in SoCal > wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:15:17 -0800 (PST), Gary V >
> wrote:
>
> >> > Human nature then says, "charge it up whenever you can".
> >>
> >> Do you fill your tank with gasoline every time you pass a gas station?
> >> Do you fill your stomach with food every time you pass a vending
> >> machine or a restaurant?
> >>
> >> So much for your simplistic view of human nature...
> >
> >No, because I know there will be another gas station or restaurant or
> >convenience store another few miles
>
> Thanks for conceding my point.
>
> >There's two basic problems with plug-in electrics. You don't know
> >where the next plug will be, and you don't want to wait half the day
> >while your battery recharges.
>
> Not a problem for commuting, which is the lion's share of my driving
> (and, I suspect, yours also). For any use which doesn't fit that
> model, I will own (or rent) a concentional vehicle.

You just don't get it, do you?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

"Matthew T. Russotto" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> James Robinson > wrote:
(Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>
>>Now looking at Tesla's claims, 220V and 70A for 3.5 hours is 53.9 kW-hr.
>>
>>So, they are claiming that their car will use only 2/3 of the energy than
>>is needed simply to move the average car the same distance under ideal
>>efficiency.
>
> It's based on a Lotus Elise chassis. Very light and aerodynamic, compared
> to the average car. However, I suspect that 250 mile range is based
> on driving very slowly.

I think they said the range is based on 55 MPH max speed plus all the other
usual impractical conditions such as new batteries and always having warm
weather.

In article >,
Scott in SoCal > wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 03:00:04 GMT, Alan Baker >
> wrote:
>
> >You just don't get it, do you?
>
> Oh, I get it all right.
>
> You don't want to admit you are wrong.

I'm not wrong. You just don't get it.

It doesn't matter if the car is "just for commuting". People want things
to be available whenever they *might* need them, not just when they know
they need them.

Since electric cars take hours to charge, all you can do to ensure the
availability of this very expensive possession is to see that you take
advantage of the earliest opportunity to charge it up.

If the best answer presented to those who say "what if I need my vehicle
on short notice" is "own to vehicles" I guarantee you that most people
will be thinking "why bother with an electric car at all then?".

But there *will* be another answer: Charge it as soon as you park it.

And thus, if the electric car gains any popularity at all, there will be
massive spikes in power usage right when demand is already spiking:
shortly after people get home.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 05:46:51 GMT, Alan Baker > wrote:

>In article >,
> Scott in SoCal > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 03:00:04 GMT, Alan Baker >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You just don't get it, do you?
>>
>> Oh, I get it all right.
>>
>> You don't want to admit you are wrong.
>
>I'm not wrong. You just don't get it.
>
>It doesn't matter if the car is "just for commuting". People want things
>to be available whenever they *might* need them, not just when they know
>they need them.

It matters when paying for electricity turns out to be the equivalent of 50
cents a gallon for gas. That sort of savings is worth some other
inconveniences. (I read this somewhere - electric is 1/6th the price of gas.
Dunno if it was true or is true. I'd say probably, tho.)

>Since electric cars take hours to charge, all you can do to ensure the
>availability of this very expensive possession is to see that you take
>advantage of the earliest opportunity to charge it up.

Well, maybe someone building the electric cars could be smart enough to build
them so that you can easily replace the battery, so you can have maybe an extra
battery or 2 at home on charge. Come home, change out the battery, put the one
you just removed on charge, you're ready to go again.

>If the best answer presented to those who say "what if I need my vehicle
>on short notice" is "own to vehicles" I guarantee you that most people
>will be thinking "why bother with an electric car at all then?".

Cheap energy.

>But there *will* be another answer: Charge it as soon as you park it.

>And thus, if the electric car gains any popularity at all, there will be
>massive spikes in power usage right when demand is already spiking:
>shortly after people get home.

For whatever reason, those that supposedly know are planning on people charging
them overnight. The generators that are very lightly loaded then.

I don't think that the peak power demand is just after people get home - 6 PM.
I think it is more like noon to 3 PM, when the air conditioners are all going
full tilt.

Alan Baker > wrote:
>
> Since electric cars take hours to charge, all you can do to ensure the
> availability of this very expensive possession is to see that you take
> advantage of the earliest opportunity to charge it up.

A future technological advance might permit a much faster charge than
that, perhaps within a few minutes.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Capital Beltway Projects http://www.capital-beltway.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

On Feb 4, 9:09*pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:15:17 -0800 (PST), Gary V >
> wrote:
>
> >> > Human nature then says, "charge it up whenever you can".
>
> >> Do you fill your tank with gasoline every time you pass a gas station?
> >> Do you fill your stomach with food every time you pass a vending
> >> machine or a restaurant?
>
> >> So much for your simplistic view of human nature...
>
> >No, because I know there will be another gas station or restaurant or
> >convenience store another few miles
>
> Thanks for conceding my point.
>
> >There's two basic problems with plug-in electrics. *You don't know
> >where the next plug will be, and you don't want to wait half the day
> >while your battery recharges. *
>
> Not a problem for commuting, which is the lion's share of my driving
> (and, I suspect, yours also). For any use which doesn't fit that
> model, I will own (or rent) a concentional vehicle.
> --
> Please don't give financial rewards to trolls -
> DO NOT CLICK on any URLs containing "calrog.com"

I'm glad you can afford to have two vehicles, and leave one in the
garage while you drive the other (or can afford exhorbitant rental
fees). And that your commute pattern never unexpectedly changes, such
that your planned daily trip doesn't suddenly expand beyond your
battery charge.

On Feb 5, 4:31*am, Dave Head > wrote:

> Well, maybe someone building the electric cars could be smart enough to build
> them so that you can easily replace the battery, so you can have maybe an extra
> battery or 2 at home on charge. *Come home, change out the battery, put the one
> you just removed on charge, you're ready to go again.

Do you know the size, weight and cost of those things?

"Matthew T. Russotto" wrote:

> In article >,
> N8N > wrote:
> >
> >4) probably does not meet federal crash standards; I'm ASSuming that
> >Aptera isn't planning on selling enough that they can't use a "low
> >volume manufacturer" exception.
>
> It's only got three wheels, so they call it a motorcycle to get around
> crash standards.
>
> Not that I have a problem with that; too many requirements cause
> stagnation. You can't build the "next best thing" because the
> requirements were written for the previous best thing.

3 wheelers have poor stability.

Graham

On 2/5/2008 1:31 AM Dave Head spake thus:

> Well, maybe someone building the electric cars could be smart enough to build
> them so that you can easily replace the battery, so you can have maybe an extra
> battery or 2 at home on charge. Come home, change out the battery, put the one
> you just removed on charge, you're ready to go again.

I thought of that too, but no, not likely, due to how heavy those
suckers are. Unless the car comes with a mini-forklift or something to
facilitate battery swapping.