My car tried to kill me AGAIN

On Oct 9, 11:14*am, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." > wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> > Let's see. *In prior cases you discovered that turning the car off and
> > restarting it corrects the problem.
> > So...logically in the same situration and it happened to me my
> > reaction would not be to burn out my brakes
> > but turn the engine off momentarily.
>
> That's also a good way to remove an unwanted catalytic converter. ;-)
>
> --
> Paul Hovnanian * *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?

So turning off an engine will blow a converter? Care to expand on
that? The days of getting a backfire ended when fuel injection and
computer controls came in.

In any case, I presume you prefer to let the car run away?

Harry K

Harry K wrote:

> On Oct 9, 11:14Â*am, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." > wrote:
>> Harry K wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>>
>> > Let's see. Â*In prior cases you discovered that turning the car off and
>> > restarting it corrects the problem.
>> > So...logically in the same situration and it happened to me my
>> > reaction would not be to burn out my brakes
>> > but turn the engine off momentarily.
>>
>> That's also a good way to remove an unwanted catalytic converter. ;-)
>>
>> --
>> Paul Hovnanian Â* Â*
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
>
> So turning off an engine will blow a converter? Care to expand on
> that? The days of getting a backfire ended when fuel injection and
> computer controls came in.

A 1988 Eldorado? I don't know when they went to injection.

> In any case, I presume you prefer to let the car run away?

Throw it in neutral first?

> Harry K

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
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On 10/7/2012 8:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> The most recent time -- yesterday -- happened when I was driving on the
> freeway and took my foot off the accelerator and the car didn't slow
> down. It sped up.

Do you mean that it starts speeding up when you let go of the
accelerator. In other words, it will maintain speed when you still have
your foot on the accelerator?

> I stepped on the brake to slow it down, and it sped
> up again when I took my foot off the gas.

Do you mean that when you took your foot off the brake, it sped up, or
do you mean that after you released the brake, you pressed the
accelerator pedal, then released it, and then the car sped up?

On Oct 9, 4:51*pm, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." > wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> > On Oct 9, 11:14*am, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." > wrote:
> >> Harry K wrote:
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >> > Let's see. *In prior cases you discovered that turning the car off and
> >> > restarting it corrects the problem.
> >> > So...logically in the same situration and it happened to me my
> >> > reaction would not be to burn out my brakes
> >> > but turn the engine off momentarily.
>
> >> That's also a good way to remove an unwanted catalytic converter. ;-)
>
> >> --
> >> Paul Hovnanian * *
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
>
> > So turning off an engine will blow a converter? *Care to expand on
> > that? *The days of getting a backfire ended when fuel injection and
> > computer controls came in.
>
> A 1988 Eldorado? I don't know when they went to injection.
>
> > In any case, I presume you prefer to let the car run away?
>
> Throw it in neutral first?
>
> > Harry K
>
> --
> Paul Hovnanian * *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for
> * *the change to take effect. Reboot now? [OK]

And hope the engine doesn't grenade from over reving?

Harry K

On 10/09/2012 05:03 PM, Arif Khokar wrote:

> On 10/7/2012 8:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> The most recent time -- yesterday -- happened when I was driving on the
>> freeway and took my foot off the accelerator and the car didn't slow
>> down. It sped up.
>
> Do you mean that it starts speeding up when you let go of the
> accelerator. In other words, it will maintain speed when you still have
> your foot on the accelerator?

I took my foot off the accelerator because I noticed traffic slowing
down. The speed increased slightly, but I thought "Well, maybe this is
a downhill' although I didn't think so. I REALLY wanted the problem to
not happen again.

>> I stepped on the brake to slow it down, and it sped
>> up again when I took my foot off the gas.

Error: I meant 'off the brake'.

> Do you mean that when you took your foot off the brake, it sped up, or
> do you mean that after you released the brake, you pressed the
> accelerator pedal, then released it, and then the car sped up?

Both, actually. First, unexpected increase in speed when I took my foot
off the accelerator. To test, I pressed the brake lightly (still in
freeway traffic), which slowed the car. When I took my foot off the
brake it sped up. At this point I KNEW it was happening again and used
the brakes seriously -- pressing hard while the engine speed increased.
Got off the freeway, pulled to the side of the off-ramp, shoved it
into park and turned off the engine.

Got it back from the guy yesterday. He couldn't reproduce the problem
(not surprising, since months pass between instances) and his only
suggestion was that the car's computer crashes, removing the speed
control facility. Apparently the default is 'floor it' rather than
'stop', which seems really dumb bordering on criminal negligence.
Turning the engine off and then on reboots the computer and loses the
previous error messages.

I was horrified when I heard about electronic speed controls and even
more horrified to find that I have one. There are thousands of similar
occurrences across the entire GM line and, I assume, any others (all, at
this point) with electronic throttles. The fact that my experiences
were NOT geezer error leads me to believe that the cause is a basic flaw
in the design of these damn things; surely everybody knows by now that
stepping on the accelerator instead of the brake will generally have bad
results.

--
Cheers, Bev
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$
Don't tax me. Don't tax thee. Tax that man behind the tree.

"The Real Bev" > wrote in message
...
> This is the third time my 1988 Eldorado has tried to kill me and my
> passengers. Sudden acceleration, barely stoppable with the brake. Turn
> off the engine, turn it on again and everything is OK. 3x on one trip, 1x
> on one trip one year later and once again today, ~6 months later.
>
> The independent GM repair guy fixed one part of the acceleration-control
> (HA!) system the first time, and a different part of the system (very hard
> to find that part) the second time. And here we have the same problem
> again.
>
> Surely I'm not the only one to experience this. Anybody ever heard of
> this before?
>
I had this happen many years ago on a 1976 Caprice Classic when I engaged
cruise control and the pedal dropped all the way to the floor. Thankfully,
using the brakes disengaged cruise. Not saying that is the problem, but does
your vehicle also have cruise control?

On 10/10/2012 11:24 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:

> "The Real Bev" > wrote in message
> ...
>> This is the third time my 1988 Eldorado has tried to kill me and my
>> passengers. Sudden acceleration, barely stoppable with the brake. Turn
>> off the engine, turn it on again and everything is OK. 3x on one trip, 1x
>> on one trip one year later and once again today, ~6 months later.
>>
>> The independent GM repair guy fixed one part of the acceleration-control
>> (HA!) system the first time, and a different part of the system (very hard
>> to find that part) the second time. And here we have the same problem
>> again.
>>
>> Surely I'm not the only one to experience this. Anybody ever heard of
>> this before?
>>
> I had this happen many years ago on a 1976 Caprice Classic when I engaged
> cruise control and the pedal dropped all the way to the floor. Thankfully,
> using the brakes disengaged cruise. Not saying that is the problem, but does
> your vehicle also have cruise control?

It does, but it hasn't worked since before 2007. I don't like cruise
controls and don't use them voluntarily. In any case, stepping on the
brake did NOT cause the engine to slow.


--
Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
To define recursion, we must first define recursion.

"The Real Bev" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/10/2012 11:24 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
>> "The Real Bev" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> This is the third time my 1988 Eldorado has tried to kill me and my
>>> passengers. Sudden acceleration, barely stoppable with the brake. Turn
>>> off the engine, turn it on again and everything is OK. 3x on one trip,
>>> 1x
>>> on one trip one year later and once again today, ~6 months later.
>>>
>>> The independent GM repair guy fixed one part of the acceleration-control
>>> (HA!) system the first time, and a different part of the system (very
>>> hard
>>> to find that part) the second time. And here we have the same problem
>>> again.
>>>
>>> Surely I'm not the only one to experience this. Anybody ever heard of
>>> this before?
>>>
>> I had this happen many years ago on a 1976 Caprice Classic when I engaged
>> cruise control and the pedal dropped all the way to the floor.
>> Thankfully,
>> using the brakes disengaged cruise. Not saying that is the problem, but
>> does
>> your vehicle also have cruise control?
>
> It does, but it hasn't worked since before 2007. I don't like cruise
> controls and don't use them voluntarily. In any case, stepping on the
> brake did NOT cause the engine to slow.
>
That may disprove those who insist that the brakes can always overpower the
engine, but the brakes should also be checked for the following (at the
minimum I would insist on checking):

* Incorrect brake pads installed
* Brake pads glazed (correct pads were installed)
* Calipers not sliding smoothly (if using sliding caliper pins)
* Rotors too thin (below the discard specification)
* No internally split brake hoses (can restrict brake fluid)
* Brake fluid too dirty (can boil at a lower temperature)
* Incorrect brake fluid installed (e.g., DOT5 in a DOT3 fluid master
cylinder could cause rubber hoses and seals to swell)
* Brake booster defective (requires more power to apply the power brakes)

Sorry I can't offer any other assistance for the sudden acceleration as the
one other vehicle where that happened, the pedal was pushed down to the
floor and stayed there, but I was also only in first gear so I shifted to
neutral and got the pedal back up again.

On Oct 10, 11:52*pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> "The Real Bev" > wrote in ...
>
>
>
> > On 10/10/2012 11:24 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
> >> "The Real Bev" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> This is the third time my 1988 Eldorado has tried to kill me and my
> >>> passengers. *Sudden acceleration, barely stoppable with the brake. *Turn
> >>> off the engine, turn it on again and everything is OK. *3x on one trip,
> >>> 1x
> >>> on one trip one year later and once again today, ~6 months later.
>
> >>> The independent GM repair guy fixed one part of the acceleration-control
> >>> (HA!) system the first time, and a different part of the system (very
> >>> hard
> >>> to find that part) the second time. *And here we have the same problem
> >>> again.
>
> >>> Surely I'm not the only one to experience this. *Anybody ever heard of
> >>> this before?
>
> >> I had this happen many years ago on a 1976 Caprice Classic when I engaged
> >> cruise control and the pedal dropped all the way to the floor.
> >> Thankfully,
> >> using the brakes disengaged cruise. Not saying that is the problem, but
> >> does
> >> your vehicle also have cruise control?
>
> > It does, but it hasn't worked since before 2007. *I don't like cruise
> > controls and don't use them voluntarily. *In any case, stepping on the
> > brake did NOT cause the engine to slow.
>
> That may disprove those who insist that the brakes can always overpower the
> engine, but the brakes should also be checked for the following (at the
> minimum I would insist on checking):
>



How so? She brought the car to a stop using the brakes.

<snip>

Harry K

On 10/10/2012 11:51 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:

> "The Real Bev" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 10/10/2012 11:24 AM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> "The Real Bev" > wrote:
>>>> This is the third time my 1988 Eldorado has tried to kill me
>>>> and my passengers. Sudden acceleration, barely stoppable with
>>>> the brake. Turn off the engine, turn it on again and
>>>> everything is OK. 3x on one trip, 1x on one trip one year
>>>> later and once again today, ~6 months later.
>>>>
>>>> The independent GM repair guy fixed one part of the
>>>> acceleration-control (HA!) system the first time, and a
>>>> different part of the system (very hard to find that part) the
>>>> second time. And here we have the same problem again.
>>>>
>>>> Surely I'm not the only one to experience this. Anybody ever
>>>> heard of this before?
>>>>
>>> I had this happen many years ago on a 1976 Caprice Classic when I
>>> engaged cruise control and the pedal dropped all the way to the
>>> floor. Thankfully, using the brakes disengaged cruise. Not saying
>>> that is the problem, but does your vehicle also have cruise
>>> control?
>>
>> It does, but it hasn't worked since before 2007. I don't like
>> cruise controls and don't use them voluntarily. In any case,
>> stepping on the brake did NOT cause the engine to slow.

The car slowed, but the engine continued to increase rpm.

> That may disprove those who insist that the brakes can always
> overpower the engine, but the brakes should also be checked for the
> following (at the minimum I would insist on checking):

I stopped the car using the regular brakes.

It required strength, though. Maybe a frail elderly person could do it
with the assistance of adrenaline, but I wouldn't like to count on it.

I leg-press 280 pounds at the gym, but I don't think my mom could have
done that. 140 pounds with one leg, I don't think I used both feet on
the brake.

> * Incorrect brake pads installed * Brake pads glazed (correct pads
> were installed) * Calipers not sliding smoothly (if using sliding
> caliper pins) * Rotors too thin (below the discard specification) *
> No internally split brake hoses (can restrict brake fluid) * Brake
> fluid too dirty (can boil at a lower temperature) * Incorrect brake
> fluid installed (e.g., DOT5 in a DOT3 fluid master cylinder could
> cause rubber hoses and seals to swell) * Brake booster defective
> (requires more power to apply the power brakes)

Brakes done within the last year, they're in fine shape.

> Sorry I can't offer any other assistance for the sudden acceleration
> as the one other vehicle where that happened, the pedal was pushed
> down to the floor and stayed there, but I was also only in first gear
> so I shifted to neutral and got the pedal back up again.

Best guess is a computer crash with


--
Cheers,
Bev
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooo
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in
poverty. Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are
apparently doing quite well for themselves." -- Emo Philips