Thermostat

"Catman" > wrote in message
...
> On 26/11/2010 09:55, GT wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> eb.com...
>>> I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my last
>>> service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at 90. In
>>> the
>>> recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about 20
>>> minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its always
>>> been
>>> low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was warm
>>> within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3 miles!
>>>
>>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the thermostat is
>>> and
>>> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself? I'm
>>> proficient with the spanner and screwdriver, but I won't go near
>>> anything
>>> critical - ie: if its in there with the timing belt and pump etc, then
>>> I'm
>>> not going there! If it is inline with the cooling pipes and radiator,
>>> then
>>> I'll consider it.
>>
>> Update:
>>
>> I had time to experiment this morning...
>>
>> I started the engine for 5 mins on the drive this morning and felt the
>> pipe
>> coming out of the thermostat and it stayed cold. I did the school run and
>> as
>> I got home the fan was just starting to blow luke warm air. I felt the
>> pipes
>> again and the small pipes that cycle the coolant between the reservoir
>> and
>> the engine were nicely warm, but not even close to burning my hand - they
>> felt like 50-60 degrees which is what the guage in the car reported. The
>> larger pipes between the thermostat and the radiator were still cold and
>> the
>> radiator was cold, so no coolant had moved to the cooling radiator area,
>> meaning that the thermostat hadn't opened at all, which suggests that its
>> not stuck open and is possibly working OK.
>>
>> Something isn't right because it didn't used to take this long to heat up
>> (I
>> think!). Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing
>> it
>> more!
>>
>>
>
> It's jammed part open. So there's not enough hot water getting through the
> system to get the rad side *hot*, but too much to overheat the engine
> side.

But the radiator didn't even get off cold this morning - it was icey cold to
the touch, even after the heater started blowing luke warm air in.

Would it also not tend to overheat though when pushed? I did a return
journey last weekend - over 2 hours each way. Engine temp didn't get much
over 70 the whole time and some of it was 'fun' roads and some serious
hills. Perhaps it didn't overheat because the outside temp is low, but I
haven't seen it go over 90 degrees at any time over the summer either -
perhaps once or twice after motorway speeds, followed by stationary queues,
but not for long!

> Trust me on this

Oh I do trust most of the things you say in here. As you will understand, I
just want to be sure before I buy and replace something that aint broke!

On 26/11/2010 14:54, GT wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 26/11/2010 09:55, GT wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>> eb.com...
>>>> I completely forgot to ask them to change the thermostat at my last
>>>> service. The temp gauge sits around or below 70 and should be at 90. In
>>>> the
>>>> recent cold weather, it has hardly gone over 65 and it takes about 20
>>>> minutes before proper hot air comes through to the cabin. Its always
>>>> been
>>>> low, but it seems to be getting worse. The GT I had last month was warm
>>>> within a few minutes and blowing hot air at me after about 3 miles!
>>>>
>>>> Mine's a 2002, 156 Petrol 2.0 JTS. Anyone know where the thermostat is
>>>> and
>>>> how easy the job is? Should I even consider changing it myself? I'm
>>>> proficient with the spanner and screwdriver, but I won't go near
>>>> anything
>>>> critical - ie: if its in there with the timing belt and pump etc, then
>>>> I'm
>>>> not going there! If it is inline with the cooling pipes and radiator,
>>>> then
>>>> I'll consider it.
>>>
>>> Update:
>>>
>>> I had time to experiment this morning...
>>>
>>> I started the engine for 5 mins on the drive this morning and felt the
>>> pipe
>>> coming out of the thermostat and it stayed cold. I did the school run and
>>> as
>>> I got home the fan was just starting to blow luke warm air. I felt the
>>> pipes
>>> again and the small pipes that cycle the coolant between the reservoir
>>> and
>>> the engine were nicely warm, but not even close to burning my hand - they
>>> felt like 50-60 degrees which is what the guage in the car reported. The
>>> larger pipes between the thermostat and the radiator were still cold and
>>> the
>>> radiator was cold, so no coolant had moved to the cooling radiator area,
>>> meaning that the thermostat hadn't opened at all, which suggests that its
>>> not stuck open and is possibly working OK.
>>>
>>> Something isn't right because it didn't used to take this long to heat up
>>> (I
>>> think!). Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing
>>> it
>>> more!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It's jammed part open. So there's not enough hot water getting through the
>> system to get the rad side *hot*, but too much to overheat the engine
>> side.
>
> But the radiator didn't even get off cold this morning - it was icey cold to
> the touch, even after the heater started blowing luke warm air in.
>
> Would it also not tend to overheat though when pushed? I did a return
> journey last weekend - over 2 hours each way. Engine temp didn't get much
> over 70 the whole time and some of it was 'fun' roads and some serious
> hills. Perhaps it didn't overheat because the outside temp is low, but I
> haven't seen it go over 90 degrees at any time over the summer either -
> perhaps once or twice after motorway speeds, followed by stationary queues,
> but not for long!
>

Exactly how my old TS behaved.

>> Trust me on this
>
> Oh I do trust most of the things you say in here. As you will understand, I
> just want to be sure before I buy and replace something that aint broke!
>
>

heh fair point.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

Gt spoke:
> > It's jammed part open. So there's not enough hot water getting through the
> > system to get the rad side *hot*, but too much to overheat the engine
> > side.
>
> But the radiator didn't even get off cold this morning - it was icey cold to
> the touch, even after the heater started blowing luke warm air in.

Fuel pump?

I had a Jeep whi9ch had a failed waterpump.
My only indication was that there was virtually no heating driving down the A1
at speed, until I got into a town when it started steaming.

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)

R C Nesbit spoke:
> Fuel pump?

Water! Waterpump!

T.C!

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)

> I just seems to take ages to get warm. The only time the temp guage in the
> car goes over 70 degrees is after a blast down the motorway, then into a
> traffic jam. it will trickle over 90, then come back down pretty quickly.
>
> The thermostat isn't stuck open as I suspected as the large pipes to the
> radiator don't get hot at the same time as the small pipes to/from the
> reservoir.
>

Hi , I'm on my 3rd thermostat on the old TS 1.8 so I have some first hand
experience! The thermostat never stuck open (or closed) but rather they
loose the ability to mantain temp above 70°C , possibly because they become
too slow in closin in response to lower temps.
Funny thing is that in the morning the "stat" is fully closed so temp rises
correctly until it opens at around 80° then temperature drops suddenly to
60° and stays there.
If this is happening to your car just change the thermo, not a difficult
job, just don't expect it to last many years , especially the original Behr
part. The one I got now has a different german brand, but it's too soon to
recommend it.
cheers

"R C Nesbit" > wrote in message
...
>R C Nesbit spoke:
>> Fuel pump?
>
> Water! Waterpump!

The water in the pipes between the engine and the reservoir tank are heating
up nicely and you can see the liquid returning to the reservoir, so the pump
is working ok - also the engine would overheat if the pump was shot - also
the pump was replaced with the timing belt 6 months ago. Other than that,
could be!!

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:10:02 +0000, Catman
> wrote:

>On 26/11/2010 10:44, Zathras wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:55:56 -0000, > wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing it more!
>>
>> Sounds reasonable but I would also have expected you to find it cold
>> last winter too.
>
>Nope. It's not getting hot enough.

Eh?

>> One thing that was *very* obvious when I jumped ship and left the Alfa
>> stable was that my new car was vastly warmer ages (several miles)
>> before my 156 would get much heat into the cabin. It's also warmer on
>> very cold days even after it's warmed up. It doesn't have an Italian
>> thermostat and does have a few extra ccs though.
>>
>
>I suspect your 156 stat was failing as well.

That's possible..it was on it's second one. However, it hadn't got as
bad as the first.

> Knowing the TS, and V6
>engines well, they are capable of raising 'quite a lot' of heat in the
>cabin.
>
>They do seem to fail often though.

Frankly..they're crap.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:50:32 -0000, "GT" > wrote:

>The only real comparison I have (my own driving style and roads) is the Alfa
>GT I had as a courtesy car at my last service. From a cold start, driving
>from my house, there are about 10 mins of local town roads, then dual
>carriageway for ages. My 156 takes the first 10 mins before the heater even
>lets warm air through,

I think that's a function of the auto climate control. My 156 wouldn't
blow much air at all until it had decided it could provide warm air.
After about 5 miles it would perk up noticeably. Actually, if that
cleverness had gone tits up, it could explain some of your symptoms.
The dash could be routing cold air to the cabin instead of hot. I'm
not sure if that characteristic can be manually over-ridden.

>then a while on the dual carriageway (another 10
>mins+) before it is nicely warm.

Mine was similar except it was 5 minutes for both when *very* cold
outside.

>The GT was blowing warm air at me after 2-3
>minutes and hot before I even reached the dual carriageway.

Current car does that in 2-3 hundred yards.

>> I must say that my shortlist of 'must haves' for any car had heated
>> seats added to it when I hit my mid-forties. Same with the wife.
>
>You can get heated wives?

Well, I wouldn't have married her if she was cold! What use is a cold
bird when hot ones are available at no extra cost?

>Remarkable - Korean is she?

Having never tried a Korean, I've no idea how they compare.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)

On 28/11/2010 20:17, Zathras wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 13:10:02 +0000, Catman
> > wrote:
>
>> On 26/11/2010 10:44, Zathras wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 09:55:56 -0000, > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe it did and I'm just getting older and colder and noticing it more!
>>>
>>> Sounds reasonable but I would also have expected you to find it cold
>>> last winter too.
>>
>> Nope. It's not getting hot enough.
>
> Eh?
>

I think I was losing the will to live


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

On 28/11/2010 20:32, Zathras wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 12:50:32 -0000, > wrote:
>
>> The only real comparison I have (my own driving style and roads) is the Alfa
>> GT I had as a courtesy car at my last service. From a cold start, driving
>>from my house, there are about 10 mins of local town roads, then dual
>> carriageway for ages. My 156 takes the first 10 mins before the heater even
>> lets warm air through,
>
> I think that's a function of the auto climate control. My 156 wouldn't
> blow much air at all until it had decided it could provide warm air.

The GT's is too smart for its own bloody good. I have worked out how to
override it though.

> After about 5 miles it would perk up noticeably. Actually, if that
> cleverness had gone tits up, it could explain some of your symptoms.
> The dash could be routing cold air to the cabin instead of hot. I'm
> not sure if that characteristic can be manually over-ridden.
>

That would have no effect on the engine temperature gauge...



--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk