Is Ford Running on Empty?

My Names Nobody wrote:
> "Picasso" > wrote in message
> ...
>> long as the drives stay in the rear, and they keep the v8 ;P
>>
>> I really wish they wouldnt even PUT the v6 in them. it kindda ruins
>> them... like the fox stangs 4 banger, what a gutless piece of junk that
>> was... 2.3L Wasn't it? the ford tempo's could walk all over them! hahaha
>
>
> If they did not sell the V-6 Mustang, the "secretary car" would have long
> ago suffered the same fate as the camaro and charger...
> It's a good thing some people like the low performance models...

The camaro too offered a V6, a very weak V6, but it wasthere

NOw if someone upgraded from a neon, or a cavelier, I could see why they
would think a v6 stang would work good.

Whitelightning wrote:
> "David M" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:56:42 +0000, Picasso rearranged some electrons to
> > form:
> >
> > > long as the drives stay in the rear, and they keep the v8 ;P
> > >
> > > I really wish they wouldnt even PUT the v6 in them. it kindda ruins
> > > them... like the fox stangs 4 banger, what a gutless piece of junk that
> > > was... 2.3L Wasn't it? the ford tempo's could walk all over them!
> hahaha
> >
> > If you actually drove a new Mustang with the V6, you might think again.
> > It really runs pretty good, for a 6-cyl.
> >
> >
> Imagine it with a super charger like the Cobalt SS.
>
> Whitelightning

Actually.... I don't have to imagine it... Vortech makes a nice
little kit with and without a charge cooler... I opted for the charge
cooler... My little 'ol V6 puts down 313RWHP/290RWTQ... and she's an
automatic (OMG an Auto V6! How can I even show my face! LOL!) so you're
looking at round 360HP at the crank.... runs 13.4's in 90 degree heat
and a 325 pound driver! LOL!

My Vorech info is at:
http://www.tammyandjohn.com/Mustang/...ang.htm#rescue

Picasso wrote:
> My Names Nobody wrote:
> > "Picasso" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> long as the drives stay in the rear, and they keep the v8 ;P
> >>
> >> I really wish they wouldnt even PUT the v6 in them. it kindda ruins
> >> them... like the fox stangs 4 banger, what a gutless piece of junk that
> >> was... 2.3L Wasn't it? the ford tempo's could walk all over them! hahaha
> >
> >
> > If they did not sell the V-6 Mustang, the "secretary car" would have long
> > ago suffered the same fate as the camaro and charger...
> > It's a good thing some people like the low performance models...
>
> The camaro too offered a V6, a very weak V6, but it wasthere
>
> NOw if someone upgraded from a neon, or a cavelier, I could see why they
> would think a v6 stang would work good.

or upgrading from one of your beloved V8's from the mid-90's... LOL! I
lined up against some mid-90's GT's at the track... they were running a
blistering mid-16s! WOOHOO! A stock S197 V6 can turn low 15's! Couple
cheap mods and you can run 14.9... LOL!

This is not your Dad's rental V6... LOL!

Few. I have a 2007 GT Convertible on order. After two reds a black and
another red since '99, I picked a new color, 'Alloy' as dark metallic grey,
and added the hood scope. I should have it in two weeks.



mike hunt



"Picasso" > wrote in message
...
> What chages are they planning for the mustang?
>
> The mustang GT is a well done piece. Best bang for your buck for sure, if
> you are looking for good styling, good power, and a good daily drive. I
> don't know why you would look any further, even if the camaro was still
> around, it's styling looked like a riced out firebird from 1993, and
> didn't even perform overly impressively. It would probally still be
> overpriced even if it was there to compete...
>
> lymee wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:05:36 -0400, Grover C. McCoury III wrote:
>>
>>> July 16, 2006
>> Snip...
>>
>> Where I live there is a Ford dealer right next to a GM dealer and despite
>> my having been a Chevy guy for a long time, I'm going to buy a Ford this
>> time around.
>> Mustang to be exact.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Because GM cars are dull.
>> They look dull.
>> The colors are boring and the styling looks like they took 1970's/80's
>> notchback cars like the Buick Regal, Monte Carlo etc and rounded off the
>> corners. The insides still scream OLD FART CLUB (of which I am a proud
>> member of at 46yo) even though the motors are starting to come back.
>>
>> What rocket scientist put the fire breathing V8 in a FWD car, the
>> MonteCarlo?
>>
>> Even Dodge had the good sense to go RWD with it's Hemi's and although the
>> styling doesn't appeal to everyone at least they took a chance.
>> the interiors are very modern with a touch of retro and well done too.
>>
>> The Malibu, Cobalt and Impala are other snoozers except maybe for the
>> Cobalt in SS trim which is nice but rough around the edges especially in
>> the handling department.
>>
>> In contrast, the new Ford Mustang was a stroke of genious.
>> I just hope Ford doesn't screw it up with the rumored changes they are
>> making next year.
>>
>> Ford IMHO has one problem and it is the same problem as GM.
>> They bought way too heavily into the super sized SUV market and
>> now that gas prices are skyrocketing it is coming back to get them.
>> Unlike GM though, Ford was smart enough to offer some hybrids and even
>> though they kinda suck(very high repair costs) it is good for public
>> relations and people are buying them.
>>
>> I think the big three really have to do some serious market research,
>> hire
>> some talented designers with fresh ideas and look toward the future (like
>> Japanese companies) instead of a quarterly bottom line.
>>

Todays Mustang GT has the 4.6V8 is a better engine than the 302, 300 HP and
345 FP of torque. The limited production Cobra has the engine from the Ford
GT with a supercharger and 500 HP and 445 FP of torque from what I've heard.
The MSRP for the coupe is 40K, 45K for the convertible but dealers are
getting 5K to 10K over MSRP. Every Ford dealer gets one, Presidents Award
dealers get two.



mike hunt




"Whitelightning" > wrote in message
news:2YAug.5346$Ss2.5148@trnddc01...
>
> "Picasso" > wrote in message
> ...
>> long as the drives stay in the rear, and they keep the v8 ;P
>>
>> I really wish they wouldnt even PUT the v6 in them. it kindda ruins
>> them... like the fox stangs 4 banger, what a gutless piece of junk that
>> was... 2.3L Wasn't it? the ford tempo's could walk all over them! hahaha
>>
> Careful now, lol. In 1985 one of the performance mags did a head to head
> to
> find the "fastest"
> production car. Of course the Corvette won hands down over all even after
> Chevrolet made them put a roll cage in the car and locked out 6th gear on
> the tranny, the Camaro IROC nudged out the Pontiac Firebird for 2 nd
> place,
> and forth place went to the Buick Grand National, which beat the Firebird
> for top end, but got beat bad in the 1/4 mile, but the big surprise was
> the
> Dodge Omni GLH whooped the 5.0 Ford Mustang, not just on top end, but in
> the
> 1/4 mile as well.. A couple years later the Omni was gone, as was the
> Grand
> National, but the big upset winners were both GM trucks, the Cyclone, and
> the Typhoon, which almost beat the damn Corvette in the 1/4 mile.
>
> Whitelightning
>
>

There is a light F250, under 2500, and the F250 HD. Check with your local
Ford dealer, for the specifics, WBMA


mike hunt

"My Names Nobody" > wrote in message
news:KJDug.3193$Lw.1022@trnddc07...
>

>> F150's are damn solid trucks. I wish they still made the light duty
>> f250. But anyway, the F150's are still good vehicles.
>>
>> If i had the money, I would try a 250 or 350 diesel.
>
> Light duty F-250's??? What year was that? Every year I'm familiar with
> share axels, brakes and springs with the F-350. I do know Chevy made
> half-ton based light duty 3/4 ton trucks, I'm not aware of a Ford light
> duty F-250.
>

Then how do you explain why the Camry is the number one selling car in the
US?



mike hunt


> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>>Better quality? In whose opinion?
>
> J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, Popular Mechanics, Gelco Leasing,
> dealers that sell both Japanese, American, and Chrysler brands, and
> even the internal reports of Ford and GM.
>
>>Lest we forget both GM and Ford outsell ANY of the imports, as well.
>
> Irrelevant (quality != quantity) and misleading

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> Then how do you explain why the Camry is the number one selling car in the
> US?
>
>
>
> mike hunt
>
because all you have to say to the common ignorant American consumer is that
if its manufactured by any one but an American Corporation, it has to be
better, and they
believe it.

Whitelightning.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>>Better quality? In whose opinion?
>
> J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, Popular Mechanics, Gelco Leasing,
> dealers that sell both Japanese, American, and Chrysler brands, and
> even the internal reports of Ford and GM.
>
>>Lest we forget both GM and Ford outsell ANY of the imports, as well.
>
> Irrelevant (quality != quantity) and misleading ( GM + Ford is bigger
> than Toyota, but Toyota + Ford is bigger than GM, but so what?). GM is
> also #1 in China, but again, so what? For a business with such large
> economies of scale as the car industry, worldwide sales matter more,
> and here GM will soon be overtaken, unless it merges with
> Renault/Nissan. GM and Ford have got to bring out new best-in-class
> vehicles, and they haven't been doing that much, GM perhaps not at
> all.. Rick Wagoner and Bill Ford need to understand, "It's the
> vehicles, stupid."
>
BTW,
The Fusion and Mustang were ranked best in class by JD Powers. No other
American makes to be found.
John

Whitelightning wrote:

> > Because GM cars are dull.
> > They look dull.
> > The colors are boring and the styling looks like they took 1970's/80's
> > notchback cars like the Buick Regal, Monte Carlo etc and rounded off the
> > corners. The insides still scream OLD FART CLUB (of which I am a proud
> > member of at 46yo) even though the motors are starting to come back.

> > What rocket scientist put the fire breathing V8 in a FWD car, the
> > MonteCarlo?

> Why not, lets see, Olds Tornado, Cadillac Eldarado, Coupe DeVille, STS,
> Buick Rivera to name a few. The Toronado set up was so bullet proof GMC used it in
> its RV they offered in the 70's and early 80's that still has a cult following with
> almost 75% of those sold still on the road.

"Bulletproof" or not, high horsepower FWD cars have torque steer
problems. And you must admit, given the choice most every performance
nut would opt for RWD over FWD.

> > Even Dodge had the good sense to go RWD with it's Hemi's and although the
> > styling doesn't appeal to everyone at least they took a chance.
> > the interiors are very modern with a touch of retro and well done too.

> Probably because of Mercedes owning them, Mercedes is still rear wheel drive.
> And the hemi is a marketing ploy to the inth degree, to compare what they
> are offering today to the 426 hemis of the late 60's and 70's is a joke.

1) The modern 6.1L Hemi is NET rated at what the old 7L Hemi was rated
in GROSS HP.

2) And a modern SRT Hemi car will walk any old Hemi car.

So the modern Hemi's performance isn't a joke.

===

Now let's see if re-using the Hemi name is a "marketing ploy".

===

Conclusions So Far
Unless there is something that has been under-/over-estimated or
overlooked, it seems that this new Hemi has evolved into something as
high-tech as the LS6 engine. If so, this means (from the street
performance enthusiast point of view) it is hot right out of the crate
(see output curves in Fig 1) and chock full of major power potential.
Its crowning feature is going to be the cylinder head, so let's take a
serious look at this all-important piece of hardware now.

Cylinder Head
The advantage of a hemi design of combustion chamber is that the valves
(and most importantly the intake valve) are always moving away from the
shrouding effect of the cylinder walls (Fig 2) as they lift off the
seats. However, the new hemi is not actually a true hemi as per its
426-inch predecessor. The hemi style of combustion chamber was put to
good use during WWII when the output of supercharged aero engines could
basically decide the fate of nations. For a two-valve combustion
chamber, the hemi layout not only allows the largest valves to be
accommodated but also to have the highest flow efficiency. The downside
of a true Hemi configuration is that it does not respond well to a high
compression ratio that inevitably requires a combustion-inhibiting,
high-domed piston. For an engine with a typical bore/stroke ratio, this
means it works great with a supercharger and CRs less than 8.5:1, but
not as a normally-aspirated unit with 10:1 or more. To get around this
problem the new Hemi has the sides of the true hemi form filled in.
With the two spark plugs it is equipped with, this allows all the
advantages of a true hemi, including blower capability, along with the
ability, if required, to successful utilize high compression ratios.

====

Seems there was a valid reason to slightly modify the old Hemi design.
The new Hemi needed more compression and the old Hemi design wouldn't
cut the mustand.

=====

Flow Capability
We can see that Chrysler's engineers were targeting the best two-valve
head possible. There are two important questions that need to be asked
he How well did they succeed for the head in stock form and, since
no aftermarket heads are available, what is its porting potential? The
graph, Fig 3, gives the answers here and you are going to like them.
First, the intake port. The stock port with its 2-inch valve flowed a
whopping 270 cfm at only .600-inch lift. It hit the peak flow figures,
which are produced at .700-inch lift on a stock LS6, at only about 375
thousandths lift. This is good news but there is a lot more. Peak
figures are not the whole story. Good mid-range figures are also
important. The new Hemi did extremely well here. At 250 thousandths
lift, the stock head was nearer a $10,000 Winston (Nextel) Cup head
than it was to even a good modified parallel-valve head.

A check on the intake port velocity (Fig 4) showed the intake to be a
super high-speed port with valve-to-port areas very similar to what is
seen in Formula One. Velocity probing showed 90 percent of the port
flows at a velocity greater than 90 percent of maximum. This is far
better than a typical 23-degree performance head for a small-block
Chevy or, for that matter, the LS6.

The exhaust port showed the same high-function trend by hitting 161 cfm
at 600 thousandths lift through its 1.55-inch valve. It also had a far
better than average port velocity and velocity distribution (Fig 5).

We spent a day and a half on the flow bench in an effort to find out
what this head does or does not like in the way of port mods. We are
sure there is much still to come, especially with some bigger valves,
but we did find what it took to produce, at 600 thousandths lift, some
302 cfm on the intake and 195 cfm on the exhaust. As the nearby photos
show the work to achieve this proved simple. In essence, the porting
involves little more than just tidying up what Chrysler's engineers
provided in the first place (great job guys).

Final Conclusions
The bottom line here we think is that even in today's world, the Hemi,
a year after its introduction, has got more going for it as a hot rod
motor than perhaps the small-block Chevy did in 1956. Even with the
limitations on valve lift brought about by the stock rocker, the
cylinder head has more than enough flow potential to clear the 600-hp
barrier and probably do it (relatively speaking) with ease.

====

"...clear 600-hp barrier and do it with relative ease" certainly sounds
like a no-joke engine.

====

So will it be a success? This depends on the factory as much as
anything. First, they must put it in vehicles that inspire hot rodders
to do something with them. The Hemi truck is a great start here as the
sport truck market is big. Introducing a viable pony car to compete
with the Mustang would probably clinch the deal in that department. But
it will still need a little more than just the right vehicles. The
factory will have to support this engine in aftermarket parts. This
appears to be happening but as far as we are concerned, it can't happen
fast enough. We're avid Chevy fans and have owned many Chevy vehicles
over the years, but this 5.7 Hemi has totally convinced us our next
truck just has to be a Hemi-powered Dodge.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...engine_review/

====

Hmmm... avid Chevy fans admitting the new Hemi outguns their brand's
best. Not too shabby for a "marketing ploy" and a joke compared to
old, huh?

Patrick