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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 22nd 05, 05:47 AM
Daniel J. Stern
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Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

> Consumer Reports says the problem rate for transmissions is:
>
> _______Chrysler minivans_________average vehicle_______
>
> 2004:_____very low__________________very low
> 2003:_____low_______________________very low
> 2002:_____average___________________low
> 2001:_____low_______________________low
> 2000:_____very high_________________low
> 1999:_____very high_________________low
> 1998:_____high______________________low
> 1997:_____high______________________average


This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job
of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards'
"research".


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  #2  
Old October 23rd 05, 02:16 PM
larry moe 'n curly
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Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem


Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> > Consumer Reports says the problem rate for transmissions is:
> >
> > _______Chrysler minivans_________average vehicle_______
> >
> > 2004:_____very low__________________very low
> > 2003:_____low_______________________very low
> > 2002:_____average___________________low
> > 2001:_____low_______________________low
> > 2000:_____very high_________________low
> > 1999:_____very high_________________low
> > 1998:_____high______________________low
> > 1997:_____high______________________average

>
> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job
> of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards'
> "research".


Then where are we supposed to get our information, from friends and
mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are great and "Jap
stuff" is junk? Those of us who aren't experts or industry insiders
have very few other sources of reliability information, but it seems
that CR's overall reliability scores coincide well with Popular
Mechanics' and the records that one large fleet leasing company keeps.

CR reliability surveys do seem to get it right for digital cameras,
TVs, and central air conditioners (A/C experts seem to agree except for
York, which they hold in higher regard), so why should they be so wrong
about cars?

  #3  
Old October 23rd 05, 07:56 PM
MaceFace
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Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem


Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job
> of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards'
> "research".


So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their
1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems?

  #4  
Old October 23rd 05, 08:54 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, MaceFace wrote:

>> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
>> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid
>> job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner
>> Retards' "research".

>
> So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their
> 1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems?


The question is a complete nonsequitur. Are you still interested in the
answer?
  #5  
Old October 23rd 05, 09:03 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

>>> Consumer Reports says the problem rate for transmissions is:


<snip idiocy>

>> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
>> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid
>> job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner
>> Retards' "research".


> Then where are we supposed to get our information


Your argument here amounts to "OK, CR might be full of ****, but what
choice do we have but to believe them?". I reject that argument as...well,
stupid. Yes, it's a shame CR isn't what it once was -- go to the public
library and take a look at what they were in the '60s -- but using CR
because you can't be bothered to use your own five senses plus your mind
is...well, it's lazy.

> from friends and mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are
> great


If you have a mechanic who believes that Chevs and Fords are "great", it's
a fairly good wager you'd do well to find another mechanic.

  #6  
Old October 23rd 05, 10:30 PM
Ted Mittelstaedt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem


"MaceFace" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Daniel J. Stern wrote:
>
> > This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
> > were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job
> > of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner

Retards'
> > "research".

>
> So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their
> 1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems?
>


Of course they had breakdown problems. However what you originally
posted was a comparative survey that picked one item - the transmission.

When people own cars their vehicle satisfaction is driven by expectations
and
what the actual maintainence history.

For example I would be extremely dissatisfied with a vehicle that had to
have
all 4 tires replaced every 4 years and each tire cost $500. I do not think
it
reasonable to pay $2000 for a set of tires every 4 years. However this is
exactly
what the people who drive around in trucks with giant-ass tires jacked up
into God's ass do, and they apparently have a high level of satisfaction
with
their vehicle.

Those same people might be dissatisfied with a vehicle that has a
transmission
that breaks down every 4 years requiring a $2000 rebuild. I on the other
hand
might be perfectly fine with this if I was putting 20,000 miles a year on
the
vehicle, delivering pizza.

With your survey, focusing on a transmission, the
truck-jacked-up-into-god's-ass
would rate very high, the pizza car would rate very low. Even though both
myself
and the truck-jacked-up-into-gods-ass drivers would have an equally high
level
of satisfaction with our vehicles.

This is what Daniel is objecting to with the CR surveys, and what he's
trying
to get you to use your brain to figure out for yourself. I hope that you
aren't
insulted that I spelled it out for you.

Ted


  #7  
Old October 24th 05, 03:45 AM
larry moe 'n curly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem


Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:


> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions
> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid
> job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner
> Retards' "research".
>
> > Then where are we supposed to get our information

>
> Your argument here amounts to "OK, CR might be full of ****, but what
> choice do we have but to believe them?".


That's a ridiculous summation, and what does the version of the
transmission in each model year when CR is reporting the reliabily
model year by model year? Also if CR's reliability surveys are so
useless, why do they strangely correlate with the results of two other
surveys?

> Yes, it's a shame CR isn't what it once was -- go to the public
> library and take a look at what they were in the '60s -- but using CR
> because you can't be bothered to use your own five senses plus your mind
> is...well, it's lazy.


I wish they'd go back to testing more budget products and providing
more information and fewer dumbed-down Money magazine-style articles,
but they haven't changed their auto reliability surveys, except how
they're tabulated (formerly only like year cars compared, now all cars
compared together).

But tell me: How is the average consumer supposed to judge the
reliability of new cars using just his or her brain and five senses?
Talking to people doesn't work well because of product loyalty (even
lemons have their fans) or exceptional experiences, and initial quality
and long term reliability are only loosely related (as so many British
luxury cars have shown).

> > from friends and mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are
> > great


> If you have a mechanic who believes that Chevs and Fords are "great", it's
> a fairly good wager you'd do well to find another mechanic.


I'm sure that there are many good mechanics who just don't know other
brands. OTOH I haven't let a mechanic touch any car of mine in years.

  #8  
Old October 24th 05, 04:14 AM
larry moe 'n curly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem


Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:

> Of course they had breakdown problems. However what you originally
> posted was a comparative survey that picked one item - the transmission.


Because the OP mentioned the transmission.

> When people own cars their vehicle satisfaction is driven by expectations
> and what the actual maintainence history.


So why do some brands of a given type (minivan, pickup, sports car,
etc.) have much worse reliability rates than others of the same type?
I doubt it's because Chevy owners are slobs and Toyota owners aren't.

> With your survey, focusing on a transmission, the truck-jacked-
> up-into-god's-ass would rate very high, the pizza car would
> rate very low. Even though both myself and the truck-jacked-
> up-into-gods-ass drivers would have an equally high level of
> satisfaction with our vehicles.


CR says their surveys show no correlation between satisfaction and
reliability. And since this thread hasn't been about reliability, why
do you bring up satisfaction?

> This is what Daniel is objecting to with the CR surveys, and what he's
> trying to get you to use your brain to figure out for yourself.


That's not the impression I got from him. I thought he didn't like
the surveys because they didn't include nearly enough information to
make sound conclusions.

> I hope that you aren't insulted that I spelled it out for you.


You haven't spelled out anything, at least not well or in public.

  #9  
Old October 24th 05, 05:02 AM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:

>> Your argument here amounts to "OK, CR might be full of ****, but what
>> choice do we have but to believe them?".

>
> That's a ridiculous summation


Only for those who blindly believe in the Gospel According to Consumer
Reports. You apparently fit in that category.

> and what does the version of the transmission in each model year when CR
> is reporting the reliabily model year by model year?


Would you like to try that again, this time with a complete, parsable
sentence?

> Also if CR's reliability surveys are so useless, why do they strangely
> correlate with the results of two other surveys?


Whether they do or not depends on your own biases -- and how much you know
about how the magazine business works.

> But tell me: How is the average consumer supposed to judge the
> reliability of new cars using just his or her brain and five senses?


Well, for starters, turn off the television set...

> initial quality and long term reliability are only loosely related (as
> so many British luxury cars have shown).


Quite true.

  #10  
Old October 24th 05, 07:12 AM
Ted Mittelstaedt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem


"larry moe 'n curly" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
>
> > Of course they had breakdown problems. However what you originally
> > posted was a comparative survey that picked one item - the transmission.

>
> Because the OP mentioned the transmission.
>
> > When people own cars their vehicle satisfaction is driven by

expectations
> > and what the actual maintainence history.

>
> So why do some brands of a given type (minivan, pickup, sports car,
> etc.) have much worse reliability rates than others of the same type?
> I doubt it's because Chevy owners are slobs and Toyota owners aren't.
>


Consider the use the vehicle is put to. A sports car is going to have worse
reliability simply because people that buy sports cars don't drive them
like little old ladies that only drive it to and from church on Sunday.

> > With your survey, focusing on a transmission, the truck-jacked-
> > up-into-god's-ass would rate very high, the pizza car would
> > rate very low. Even though both myself and the truck-jacked-
> > up-into-gods-ass drivers would have an equally high level of
> > satisfaction with our vehicles.

>
> CR says their surveys show no correlation between satisfaction and
> reliability. And since this thread hasn't been about reliability,


"problem rate" of transmissions isn't about reliability?

> why
> do you bring up satisfaction?
>


That's silly. Are you arguing that people have a high level of satisfaction
with vehicles they consider to have low reliability?

> > This is what Daniel is objecting to with the CR surveys, and what he's
> > trying to get you to use your brain to figure out for yourself.

>
> That's not the impression I got from him. I thought he didn't like
> the surveys because they didn't include nearly enough information to
> make sound conclusions.
>
> > I hope that you aren't insulted that I spelled it out for you.

>
> You haven't spelled out anything, at least not well or in public.
>


I think the problem is you haven't been paying attention.

Ted


 




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