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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
> Consumer Reports says the problem rate for transmissions is: > > _______Chrysler minivans_________average vehicle_______ > > 2004:_____very low__________________very low > 2003:_____low_______________________very low > 2002:_____average___________________low > 2001:_____low_______________________low > 2000:_____very high_________________low > 1999:_____very high_________________low > 1998:_____high______________________low > 1997:_____high______________________average This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards' "research". |
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#2
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
Daniel J. Stern wrote: > On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote: > > > Consumer Reports says the problem rate for transmissions is: > > > > _______Chrysler minivans_________average vehicle_______ > > > > 2004:_____very low__________________very low > > 2003:_____low_______________________very low > > 2002:_____average___________________low > > 2001:_____low_______________________low > > 2000:_____very high_________________low > > 1999:_____very high_________________low > > 1998:_____high______________________low > > 1997:_____high______________________average > > This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions > were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job > of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards' > "research". Then where are we supposed to get our information, from friends and mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are great and "Jap stuff" is junk? Those of us who aren't experts or industry insiders have very few other sources of reliability information, but it seems that CR's overall reliability scores coincide well with Popular Mechanics' and the records that one large fleet leasing company keeps. CR reliability surveys do seem to get it right for digital cameras, TVs, and central air conditioners (A/C experts seem to agree except for York, which they hold in higher regard), so why should they be so wrong about cars? |
#3
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
Daniel J. Stern wrote: > This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions > were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job > of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards' > "research". So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their 1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems? |
#4
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, MaceFace wrote:
>> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions >> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid >> job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner >> Retards' "research". > > So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their > 1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems? The question is a complete nonsequitur. Are you still interested in the answer? |
#5
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>> Consumer Reports says the problem rate for transmissions is: <snip idiocy> >> This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions >> were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid >> job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner >> Retards' "research". > Then where are we supposed to get our information Your argument here amounts to "OK, CR might be full of ****, but what choice do we have but to believe them?". I reject that argument as...well, stupid. Yes, it's a shame CR isn't what it once was -- go to the public library and take a look at what they were in the '60s -- but using CR because you can't be bothered to use your own five senses plus your mind is...well, it's lazy. > from friends and mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are > great If you have a mechanic who believes that Chevs and Fords are "great", it's a fairly good wager you'd do well to find another mechanic. |
#6
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
"MaceFace" > wrote in message oups.com... > > Daniel J. Stern wrote: > > > This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions > > were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid job > > of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner Retards' > > "research". > > So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their > 1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems? > Of course they had breakdown problems. However what you originally posted was a comparative survey that picked one item - the transmission. When people own cars their vehicle satisfaction is driven by expectations and what the actual maintainence history. For example I would be extremely dissatisfied with a vehicle that had to have all 4 tires replaced every 4 years and each tire cost $500. I do not think it reasonable to pay $2000 for a set of tires every 4 years. However this is exactly what the people who drive around in trucks with giant-ass tires jacked up into God's ass do, and they apparently have a high level of satisfaction with their vehicle. Those same people might be dissatisfied with a vehicle that has a transmission that breaks down every 4 years requiring a $2000 rebuild. I on the other hand might be perfectly fine with this if I was putting 20,000 miles a year on the vehicle, delivering pizza. With your survey, focusing on a transmission, the truck-jacked-up-into-god's-ass would rate very high, the pizza car would rate very low. Even though both myself and the truck-jacked-up-into-gods-ass drivers would have an equally high level of satisfaction with our vehicles. This is what Daniel is objecting to with the CR surveys, and what he's trying to get you to use your brain to figure out for yourself. I hope that you aren't insulted that I spelled it out for you. Ted |
#7
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
Daniel J. Stern wrote: > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote: > This asinine chart, together with basic knowledge of what transmissions > were used in Chrysler minivans in which model years, does a splendid > job of telling us all we need to know about the veracity of Condemner > Retards' "research". > > > Then where are we supposed to get our information > > Your argument here amounts to "OK, CR might be full of ****, but what > choice do we have but to believe them?". That's a ridiculous summation, and what does the version of the transmission in each model year when CR is reporting the reliabily model year by model year? Also if CR's reliability surveys are so useless, why do they strangely correlate with the results of two other surveys? > Yes, it's a shame CR isn't what it once was -- go to the public > library and take a look at what they were in the '60s -- but using CR > because you can't be bothered to use your own five senses plus your mind > is...well, it's lazy. I wish they'd go back to testing more budget products and providing more information and fewer dumbed-down Money magazine-style articles, but they haven't changed their auto reliability surveys, except how they're tabulated (formerly only like year cars compared, now all cars compared together). But tell me: How is the average consumer supposed to judge the reliability of new cars using just his or her brain and five senses? Talking to people doesn't work well because of product loyalty (even lemons have their fans) or exceptional experiences, and initial quality and long term reliability are only loosely related (as so many British luxury cars have shown). > > from friends and mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are > > great > If you have a mechanic who believes that Chevs and Fords are "great", it's > a fairly good wager you'd do well to find another mechanic. I'm sure that there are many good mechanics who just don't know other brands. OTOH I haven't let a mechanic touch any car of mine in years. |
#8
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Of course they had breakdown problems. However what you originally > posted was a comparative survey that picked one item - the transmission. Because the OP mentioned the transmission. > When people own cars their vehicle satisfaction is driven by expectations > and what the actual maintainence history. So why do some brands of a given type (minivan, pickup, sports car, etc.) have much worse reliability rates than others of the same type? I doubt it's because Chevy owners are slobs and Toyota owners aren't. > With your survey, focusing on a transmission, the truck-jacked- > up-into-god's-ass would rate very high, the pizza car would > rate very low. Even though both myself and the truck-jacked- > up-into-gods-ass drivers would have an equally high level of > satisfaction with our vehicles. CR says their surveys show no correlation between satisfaction and reliability. And since this thread hasn't been about reliability, why do you bring up satisfaction? > This is what Daniel is objecting to with the CR surveys, and what he's > trying to get you to use your brain to figure out for yourself. That's not the impression I got from him. I thought he didn't like the surveys because they didn't include nearly enough information to make sound conclusions. > I hope that you aren't insulted that I spelled it out for you. You haven't spelled out anything, at least not well or in public. |
#9
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>> Your argument here amounts to "OK, CR might be full of ****, but what >> choice do we have but to believe them?". > > That's a ridiculous summation Only for those who blindly believe in the Gospel According to Consumer Reports. You apparently fit in that category. > and what does the version of the transmission in each model year when CR > is reporting the reliabily model year by model year? Would you like to try that again, this time with a complete, parsable sentence? > Also if CR's reliability surveys are so useless, why do they strangely > correlate with the results of two other surveys? Whether they do or not depends on your own biases -- and how much you know about how the magazine business works. > But tell me: How is the average consumer supposed to judge the > reliability of new cars using just his or her brain and five senses? Well, for starters, turn off the television set... > initial quality and long term reliability are only loosely related (as > so many British luxury cars have shown). Quite true. |
#10
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Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem
"larry moe 'n curly" > wrote in message ups.com... > > Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > > Of course they had breakdown problems. However what you originally > > posted was a comparative survey that picked one item - the transmission. > > Because the OP mentioned the transmission. > > > When people own cars their vehicle satisfaction is driven by expectations > > and what the actual maintainence history. > > So why do some brands of a given type (minivan, pickup, sports car, > etc.) have much worse reliability rates than others of the same type? > I doubt it's because Chevy owners are slobs and Toyota owners aren't. > Consider the use the vehicle is put to. A sports car is going to have worse reliability simply because people that buy sports cars don't drive them like little old ladies that only drive it to and from church on Sunday. > > With your survey, focusing on a transmission, the truck-jacked- > > up-into-god's-ass would rate very high, the pizza car would > > rate very low. Even though both myself and the truck-jacked- > > up-into-gods-ass drivers would have an equally high level of > > satisfaction with our vehicles. > > CR says their surveys show no correlation between satisfaction and > reliability. And since this thread hasn't been about reliability, "problem rate" of transmissions isn't about reliability? > why > do you bring up satisfaction? > That's silly. Are you arguing that people have a high level of satisfaction with vehicles they consider to have low reliability? > > This is what Daniel is objecting to with the CR surveys, and what he's > > trying to get you to use your brain to figure out for yourself. > > That's not the impression I got from him. I thought he didn't like > the surveys because they didn't include nearly enough information to > make sound conclusions. > > > I hope that you aren't insulted that I spelled it out for you. > > You haven't spelled out anything, at least not well or in public. > I think the problem is you haven't been paying attention. Ted |
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