Accord transmission problems - best approach?

Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
with the transmission.

The car has 116K miles on it. We purchased it used (certified, with a
HondaCare warranty) from a Honda dealer about five years ago with 41K
miles on it. Major service interval maintenance has been performed at
the same dealer, and a drain-and-refill was just performed about three
months ago. I am well aware of the numerous problems with the V6 auto
transmissions, as well as Honda's quiet warranty extension on the 00/01
model years and "unofficial" warranty extension on some of the other
years. Frankly, it's ridiculous that a Honda transmission should be
heading toward failure at under 120K miles.

The code was reset after being read today. Assuming it recurs, I plan to
take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
in the past to other owners. I'm not sure how much this dealer will be
willing to go to bat for me with American Honda, but I'm prepared to
contact American Honda directly if I can't reach a mutually acceptable
agreement with the dealer. I'm hoping that my long history of Honda
ownership will count in my favor if they're on the fence about doing
anything.

For those of you who have dealt with this problem previously, and have
managed to convince Honda to absorb some/all of the cost of a new
transmission, any words of advice as to the best approach to take, or
links to other sites I might want to check out?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Dave Garrett wrote:
> Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
> wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
> shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
> not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
> her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
> could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
> with the transmission.
>
> The car has 116K miles on it. We purchased it used (certified, with a
> HondaCare warranty) from a Honda dealer about five years ago with 41K
> miles on it. Major service interval maintenance has been performed at
> the same dealer, and a drain-and-refill was just performed about three
> months ago. I am well aware of the numerous problems with the V6 auto
> transmissions, as well as Honda's quiet warranty extension on the 00/01
> model years and "unofficial" warranty extension on some of the other
> years. Frankly, it's ridiculous that a Honda transmission should be
> heading toward failure at under 120K miles.
>
> The code was reset after being read today. Assuming it recurs, I plan to
> take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> in the past to other owners. I'm not sure how much this dealer will be
> willing to go to bat for me with American Honda, but I'm prepared to
> contact American Honda directly if I can't reach a mutually acceptable
> agreement with the dealer. I'm hoping that my long history of Honda
> ownership will count in my favor if they're on the fence about doing
> anything.
>
> For those of you who have dealt with this problem previously, and have
> managed to convince Honda to absorb some/all of the cost of a new
> transmission, any words of advice as to the best approach to take, or
> links to other sites I might want to check out?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dave
>
============================

What's the code ? ? ? ?

"Dave Garrett" > wrote in message ...
> take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> in the past to other owners.

How can you know it is the same issue as with other owners?
How are you going to prove that this is engineering flaw?
What exactly is the problem with your transmission? The code #?

In article
ommunications>,
says...
> Dave Garrett wrote:
> > Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
> > wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
> > shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
> > not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
> > her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
> > could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
> > with the transmission.

[snip]

> What's the code ? ? ? ?

I don't have it - yet. I wasn't there when the shop read it, and not
being very familiar with ECUs and trouble codes, my wife didn't think to
ask him for it. I called the shop today to find out what it was, but
they'd closed up early (it's a small shop and the two owners are the
sole employees). FWIW, I trust this shop implicitly - they are
knowledgable and honest, so I'm absolutely certain they're not trying to
sell me an expensive transmission repair I don't need.

I'll post the code when I have it. It's been two days and the CEL hasn't
come on again yet after being reset.

Dave

In article >, says...
> "Dave Garrett" > wrote in message ...
> > take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> > should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> > documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> > in the past to other owners.
>
> How can you know it is the same issue as with other owners?
> How are you going to prove that this is engineering flaw?
> What exactly is the problem with your transmission? The code #?

It isn't exactly a secret that there have been instances of Honda V6
auto transmission failures in numbers far above what could be considered
a normal statistical average. I don't know exactly how many failures
there have been, and I'm sure Honda isn't eager to publicize that kind
of data, but there have been enough to cause at least one class-action
lawsuit to be filed and the factory warranty period extended to 100,000
miles for certain model years.

It's not just random chance that has caused failures specific to V6 auto
trannys over multiple model years of Accords and Odysseys dating back to
1998. I don't know what else you'd call it besides an engineering flaw.
It's certainly a marked downturn for a company that used to be known for
the superior engineering of its powerplants.

The problem with mine is an increasing reluctance to shift. And as I
mentioned in another post, I don't have the code # yet but will post it
when I do.

Dave

Dave Garrett > wrote in
:

> In article >, says...
>> "Dave Garrett" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that
>> > Honda should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this
>> > is a well- documented engineering flaw and they have provided
>> > similar consideration in the past to other owners.
>>
>> How can you know it is the same issue as with other owners?
>> How are you going to prove that this is engineering flaw?
>> What exactly is the problem with your transmission? The code #?
>
> It isn't exactly a secret that there have been instances of Honda V6
> auto transmission failures in numbers far above what could be
> considered a normal statistical average. I don't know exactly how many
> failures there have been, and I'm sure Honda isn't eager to publicize
> that kind of data, but there have been enough to cause at least one
> class-action lawsuit to be filed and the factory warranty period
> extended to 100,000 miles for certain model years.
>
> It's not just random chance that has caused failures specific to V6
> auto trannys over multiple model years of Accords and Odysseys dating
> back to 1998. I don't know what else you'd call it besides an
> engineering flaw. It's certainly a marked downturn for a company that
> used to be known for the superior engineering of its powerplants.
>
> The problem with mine is an increasing reluctance to shift. And as I
> mentioned in another post, I don't have the code # yet but will post
> it when I do.
>



The 1998 Accord is, as far as I can determine, not part of the inherently
defective crowd.

Honda has very publicly admitted to the existence of several serious
defects in V6 auto trannies for the '99 to '04 model years of various
models, and has been generous in fixing them. Honda has had its eye on
Toyota and their past troubles with certain 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6's, and is not
eager to be tarred with the same brush.

Your '98? Well, it's ten years old, with ten years of potential neglect and
abuse. The wrong fluid, neglected changes, who knows what.
To "mashup" Curly and the rock group REM, "What's the Code, Kenneth?"


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> Dave Garrett > wrote:
>
>> It's not just random chance that has caused failures specific to V6 auto
>> trannys over multiple model years of Accords and Odysseys dating back to
>> 1998. I don't know what else you'd call it besides an engineering flaw.
>> It's certainly a marked downturn for a company that used to be known for
>> the superior engineering of its powerplants.
>
> It resulted in the largest recall ever, and is the direct result of
> Honda giving too much power to the beancounters in the late 80s/early
> 90s. They went too far, and damn near destroyed Honda's carefully built
> reputation. But what did they care--they needed results for next
> quarter, screw this long term thing.

That philosophy has worked out great for Detroit, hasn't it? One of the
major failings of US management IMHO.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> Tony Harding > wrote:
>
>>> It resulted in the largest recall ever, and is the direct result of
>>> Honda giving too much power to the beancounters in the late 80s/early
>>> 90s. They went too far, and damn near destroyed Honda's carefully built
>>> reputation. But what did they care--they needed results for next
>>> quarter, screw this long term thing.
>> That philosophy has worked out great for Detroit, hasn't it? One of the
>> major failings of US management IMHO.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> Except that Honda had a reputation that Detroit NEVER had. And Honda
> took steps, voluntary steps, that to this day Detroit management ignores
> the same way a frog ignores anything that doesn't act like a fly.
>
> Honda WANTED to take care of the horrendous problem they created.
> Detroit doesn't even recognize the problems they create.

As demonstrated in multiple safety recalls - if settling the anticipated
no. of law suits is cheaper than correcting the problem, that's the way
they go, no matter how many people die. This is what happens when MBAs
run the show.

Tony Harding wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Tony Harding > wrote:
>>
>>>> It resulted in the largest recall ever, and is the direct result of
>>>> Honda giving too much power to the beancounters in the late
>>>> 80s/early 90s. They went too far, and damn near destroyed Honda's
>>>> carefully built reputation. But what did they care--they needed
>>>> results for next quarter, screw this long term thing.
>>> That philosophy has worked out great for Detroit, hasn't it? One of
>>> the major failings of US management IMHO.
>>
>> Absolutely.
>>
>> Except that Honda had a reputation that Detroit NEVER had. And Honda
>> took steps, voluntary steps, that to this day Detroit management
>> ignores the same way a frog ignores anything that doesn't act like a fly.
>>
>> Honda WANTED to take care of the horrendous problem they created.
>> Detroit doesn't even recognize the problems they create.
>
> As demonstrated in multiple safety recalls - if settling the anticipated
> no. of law suits is cheaper than correcting the problem, that's the way
> they go, no matter how many people die. This is what happens when MBAs
> run the show.


thank this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Macnamara

it's simply the "quantitative approach" he instilled in everything he
touched. he didn't work in detroit long, but his doctrines have been
taken to heart and never forgotten.

If you have had this car serviced by the "dealer" for the last 5 years.
They may go to bat for you.
10 year old car: At what point do you take full responsibility and own the
car?

I'm curious, just what is your expectation regarding transmission life?


Dave Garrett wrote:

> Well, it finally happened. A couple of days ago, the CEL came on in my
> wife's 98 Accord V6. She also reported that she thought the car wasn't
> shifting normally. I drove it and couldn't be sure, but I thought it was
> not shifting as decisively as it normally does. Fearing the worst, I had
> her take it over to our favored independent shop this morning so he
> could pull the code. Sure enough, he reported that it indicated problems
> with the transmission.
>
> The car has 116K miles on it. We purchased it used (certified, with a
> HondaCare warranty) from a Honda dealer about five years ago with 41K
> miles on it. Major service interval maintenance has been performed at
> the same dealer, and a drain-and-refill was just performed about three
> months ago. I am well aware of the numerous problems with the V6 auto
> transmissions, as well as Honda's quiet warranty extension on the 00/01
> model years and "unofficial" warranty extension on some of the other
> years. Frankly, it's ridiculous that a Honda transmission should be
> heading toward failure at under 120K miles.
>
> The code was reset after being read today. Assuming it recurs, I plan to
> take the car in to the dealer and attempt to make the case that Honda
> should cover the cost of a replacement transmission as this is a well-
> documented engineering flaw and they have provided similar consideration
> in the past to other owners. I'm not sure how much this dealer will be
> willing to go to bat for me with American Honda, but I'm prepared to
> contact American Honda directly if I can't reach a mutually acceptable
> agreement with the dealer. I'm hoping that my long history of Honda
> ownership will count in my favor if they're on the fence about doing
> anything.
>
> For those of you who have dealt with this problem previously, and have
> managed to convince Honda to absorb some/all of the cost of a new
> transmission, any words of advice as to the best approach to take, or
> links to other sites I might want to check out?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dave