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I was trying not to expect too much from rF2, but...



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 14th 11, 06:50 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Tony R
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Posts: 207
Default I was trying not to expect too much from rF2, but...

On 13/07/2011 07:13, Mario Petrinovic wrote:

> So, why do you
> interfere into the discussion about FFB, then. Let the people who think
> that FFB is important help themselves to adjust FFB PROPERLY. Ok? And if
> you think that it isn't important, well, good for you.


That is a different topic to the one I was disagreeing with, i.e.

"FFB is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in this business. Without FFB,
this is like audio without speakers. You cannot make a picture do a
sound for you. "

Drivers aren't reliant on feeling everything the car is doing through
the feedback in the steering wheel. The sensation of rotation, the
feeling in the butt as a rear tire scrabbles for grip or locks up, the
feeling through the brake pedal of anti lock brakes engaging, the list
goes on.

Steering feel aids a driver but it doesn't stop Vettel and Hamilton
wringing the best out of a crap Chevrolet Lacetti which is described as
having "lifeless" steering.

FFB provides some input but the way we interpret motion in a static
simulation environment relies on other factors which are of far greater
importance IMHO.

For me personally I can relate simulations far better to what are one to
one relationships with driving a real car. Having sensations put through
an alternative feedback mechanism takes sim racing further away from a
simulation in my view. That is why I compare those people who have only
simulated racing experience and those that do both and have a real
reference point.

FFB can be switched off for many drivers and make no difference other
than immersion. How the car appears to react in relation to the virtual
world is absolutely key to translating what it feels like driving a car.
FFB may help but I would completely refute the phrase "is THE MOST
IMPORTANT thing in this business"

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  #32  
Old July 14th 11, 11:27 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
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Posts: 253
Default I was trying not to expect too much from rF2, but...

Tony R:
> FFB can be switched off for many drivers and make no difference other than
> immersion. How the car appears to react in relation to the virtual world
> is absolutely key to translating what it feels like driving a car. FFB may
> help but I would completely refute the phrase "is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing
> in this business"


Ok. The thing is that FFB relies on latency, and heavely depends on
how high is your screen.

Mario

  #33  
Old July 15th 11, 12:14 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Tony R
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Posts: 207
Default I was trying not to expect too much from rF2, but...

On 14/07/2011 23:27, Mario Petrinovic wrote:

> Ok. The thing is that FFB relies on latency, and heavely depends on how
> high is your screen.


What makes it hard for developers is the variability of PC systems.
Anything that puts a load on CPU can cause latency with FFB. So various
settings can appear to resolve the issue simply by reducing the load.
This will vary from machine to machine.

Also our ability to cope with latency (visual or FFB) varies from human
to human. There is some interesting research on this if you are interested.

I am sensitive to visual lag and find vysnc affects me, whereas many
find it makes no difference.



  #34  
Old July 15th 11, 08:55 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
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Posts: 253
Default I was trying not to expect too much from rF2, but...

Tony R:
>Mario Petrinovic:
>> Ok. The thing is that FFB relies on latency, and heavely depends on how
>> high is your screen.

>
> What makes it hard for developers is the variability of PC systems.
> Anything that puts a load on CPU can cause latency with FFB. So various
> settings can appear to resolve the issue simply by reducing the load. This
> will vary from machine to machine.
>
> Also our ability to cope with latency (visual or FFB) varies from human to
> human. There is some interesting research on this if you are interested.
>
> I am sensitive to visual lag and find vysnc affects me, whereas many find
> it makes no difference.


Well, I don't know, yet. For now I set my system pretty correct (I
have to fine-adjsut some things), but I am yet to research on how much
different graphyc settings affect latency. It could be that the majority of
latency can be from wheel. I'll see.
One way or the other, NOBODY talks about that, and when I talk about
that, I am ****ed all over in iRacing community, INCLUDING iRacing company
as well. Well, if you ask me, this ISN'T a way forward, just the opposite.
Now, NOBODY will discuss ANYTHING regarding FFB, except STRICTLY if it is in
the line of using only Centering Spring, because of the fear of being
EXPELLED out from the community. I mean, Middle Adges is a little baby
compared to this situation. Lol, terrible.
One way or the other, it is on sim developers (not on ME) to DEVELOP
tools to overcome this situation. If everybody can set their systems the way
I have it set, it will be much more satisfying to them, and with little
further development (standardization, and things like that), this can be
done even much better. INSTEAD, we have a JOKE of FFB existing in sim
communty. Well, I've been beaten by this community, and this can make me
laugh, but I am not a bad pearson, and I really enjoy sim racing, and this
makes me feeling bad.
I mean, did ANYBODY even dare to write something in the line that
hight of screen affects FFB, in iRacing forum. Maybe some people are aware
of that, but they are affraid to be burned on a torch there, and they simply
stay quiet. Otherwise, who knows what can happen. iRacing can even shut down
their account if they talk too much, who knows, lol. Terrible.

Mario

 




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