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C5 Belt Squeak



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 12th 06, 01:50 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
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Default C5 Belt Squeak

P1SC1. The belt slipped untill the Katech tensioner went in. I'm getting
ready to pull it though and put the stock one in. Tired of tightening it
when the belt stretches.

-Stan
> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:18:57 -0500, "sbright" >
> wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides
>>the
>>belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for
>>fine
>>black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven
>>accessories
>>thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
>>this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
>>wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
>>alternator, power steering, etc.
>>
>>-Stan
>>

>
>>>

>>

> there have been some attemenpts made to get away from the belt, Lexus
> with there hydraulic cooling fan, most aircraft engines have a gear
> drive for the vacum pump and other things. as long as the belts are
> cheap we are going to have them for a long time.
>
> But as you know Stan, the real problem is not the belt, but rather a
> misalignment and not a wide enough belt.
>
> Ps did you have any belt sllipage problems with your procharger?
> and which model are you running?



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  #12  
Old February 12th 06, 06:07 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
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Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak


"sbright" > wrote in message
...
>> I have a real problem with this discussion in that it contains the
>> statement that "All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbly." and wonder
>> how I got two that were not. I agree that there is some runout on
>> the outside portion of some of the harmonic balancers but it don't
>> "wobble" unless it is loose. If it is loose you retighten or
>> replace the bolt as per the service bulletin. My present C6 has
>> less than .01 runout checked by a dial indicator normally used to
>> check tire runout. Belt wear is another item I can't understand as
>> I've lost or replaced maybe 3 in well over 55 years of driving. My
>> driving involved 70/100

>
> I can't answer why some belts last and some don't. I'm not a car
> mechanic so I don't know all of the various ways to measure run out
> on pulleys or even really know how to adjust them if they weren't
> lined up (other than flipping them over).


How was the wear and alignment before you started changing the
original setup? I've never seen a C4,5, or 6 throw a belt at the
autocross but then I don't attend them all so it could be happening
without anything being said. When the '92 got 80,000 on it I bought a
belt to replace the original but never got around to it since I knew I
had a spare in the back. The car was traded at 92,000 with its first
belt on it, although the "Vs" were checked it looked pretty good.

>In supercharger applications, the belt does run faster than it would
>regularly.


The only way they can run faster is to install a larger harmonic
balancer/dampener. Since I've never installed a ProCharger I wonder
why you would do that?

>I would imagine that makes a perfect fit of the serp. belt pretty
>critical. I can say though, that the stock waterpump pulley does not
>have edges to it to line the belt up, it just sits wherever it wants
>to.


There is no need to guide the belt on all of the pulleys and if you're
running that far out of alignment your setup is installed wrong. If on
the other hand it is needed for that modification the ProCharger
should come with one.

>Like I said in an earlier post, I've learned a lot -- that's what
>makes it fun for me. Being able to blow away EVERY Mustang and ricer
> > that's ever tried is kinda nice too. I'd love to come up a gainst

>one of those new Ford Gt's..
>
> -Stan
>


--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd


  #13  
Old February 13th 06, 12:13 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
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Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

Prior to the Procharger install the belts were fine. I know that some C5's
have belt issues.. this one didn't.
My coupe on the other hand did. Replaced the harmonic balance and the
problem went away.

> How was the wear and alignment before you started changing the original
> setup? I've never seen a C4,5, or 6 throw a belt at the autocross but then
> I don't attend them all so it could be happening without anything being
> said. When the '92 got 80,000 on it I bought a belt to replace the
> original but never got around to it since I knew I had a spare in the
> back. The car was traded at 92,000 with its first belt on it, although the
> "Vs" were checked it looked pretty good.


I should correct myself here so you don't misunderstand what I'm saying.
The belt itself doesn't start turning faster (don't know the rpm's of the
belt) Rather, it accelerates a whole lot faster. I know all of this is
measure in miliseconds probably but trust me on this one.. the rpm's of the
motor (and therefore the belt) increase much more rapidly during a hard
acceleration with a blower. All sorts of things come in to play at that
moment-- fluter of the belt during large runs, tightness of the belt against
the guiding pulleys, allignment of the pulleys, and that little bit of rust
that developed on the water pump pulley. The flutter is the reasoning for
the Katech manual tensioner. The Katech tensioner tightens the belt much
tighter than the factory spring tensioner.. here comes that nasty little bit
of rust chewing up the belt. I've managed to work all of these problems out
but I know that I wasn't the only one having them. The new Procharger setup
uses a different bracket and more efficient air intake setup. I'd love to
upgrade but in light off the belt problems I think I'll just let it go.
(Not to mention it would probably cost $500 for the bracket and then I'd
have to find a C5 stock radiator fan setup.

>>In supercharger applications, the belt does run faster than it would
>>regularly.

>
> The only way they can run faster is to install a larger harmonic
> balancer/dampener. Since I've never installed a ProCharger I wonder why
> you would do that?
>
>>I would imagine that makes a perfect fit of the serp. belt pretty
>>critical. I can say though, that the stock waterpump pulley does not have
>>edges to it to line the belt up, it just sits wherever it wants to.

>

You're right, there is no need to guide the belt on all of the pulleys..
however the belt wears an impression into the pulley and then you have sharp
edges. Change the alignment of the belt just a little bit and you have
shred..I actually replaced it one time on the side of the road.. (Couldn't
tell you how.. used a coat hanger)

-Stan




  #14  
Old February 13th 06, 03:36 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
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Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak


"sbright" > wrote in message
. ..
> Prior to the Procharger install the belts were fine. I know that
> some C5's have belt issues.. this one didn't.
> My coupe on the other hand did. Replaced the harmonic balance and
> the problem went away.
>
>> How was the wear and alignment before you started changing the
>> original setup? I've never seen a C4,5, or 6 throw a belt at the
>> autocross but then I don't attend them all so it could be happening
>> without anything being said. When the '92 got 80,000 on it I bought
>> a belt to replace the original but never got around to it since I
>> knew I had a spare in the back. The car was traded at 92,000 with
>> its first belt on it, although the "Vs" were checked it looked
>> pretty good.

>
> I should correct myself here so you don't misunderstand what I'm
> saying.


No misunderstanding on my part, just said incorrectly. There seems to
be the problem when you add a requirement to a design that it wasn't
designed to handle. It's hard to believe that a company would sell a
product as cobbled up as the one you're talking about. The serpentine
belts were designed for a tension belt tensioned not a fixed pressure
idler wheel. Another benefit to the fixed tensioner is the ability to
overstress the fabric of the belt setting it up for early failure. Of
course you use a tension gage to set it properly so that won't/don't
happen, right? Back in the mid sixties when I run in the D gas class
the big guns were slapping on the puffers and they were throwing and
tearing up belts on a regular basis. Those belts for a much different
forced induction system were build much bigger, heavier, and were
contained on all three of their pulleys with no switchback stress and
still went to pieces. Most were not involved with a package size
constraint so they were built robust. Now 40 years later they, the
after market people, still can't put out a kit that works any better
than that?

You've answered my questions, if there is a belt problem it could be
corrected by replacing, or maybe tighten the harmonic balancer as has
been stated on the TSB by GM. If there isn't a belt problem you can
buy a kit to get it as a secondary benefit.

> The belt itself doesn't start turning faster (don't know the rpm's
> of the belt) Rather, it accelerates a whole lot faster. I know all
> of this is measure in miliseconds probably but trust me on this
> one.. the rpm's of the motor (and therefore the belt) increase much
> more rapidly during a hard acceleration with a blower. All sorts of
> things come in to play at that moment-- fluter of the belt during
> large runs, tightness of the belt against the guiding pulleys,
> allignment of the pulleys, and that little bit of rust that
> developed on the water pump pulley. The flutter is the reasoning
> for the Katech manual tensioner. The Katech tensioner tightens the
> belt much tighter than the factory spring tensioner.. here comes
> that nasty little bit of rust chewing up the belt. I've managed to
> work all of these problems out but I know that I wasn't the only one
> having them. The new Procharger setup uses a different bracket and
> more efficient air intake setup. I'd love to upgrade but in light
> off the belt problems I think I'll just let it go. (Not to mention
> it would probably cost $500 for the bracket and then I'd have to
> find a C5 stock radiator fan setup.
>
>>>In supercharger applications, the belt does run faster than it
>>>would regularly.

>>
>> The only way they can run faster is to install a larger harmonic
>> balancer/dampener. Since I've never installed a ProCharger I wonder
>> why you would do that?
>>
>>>I would imagine that makes a perfect fit of the serp. belt pretty
>>>critical. I can say though, that the stock waterpump pulley does
>>>not have edges to it to line the belt up, it just sits wherever it
>>>wants to.

>>

> You're right, there is no need to guide the belt on all of the
> pulleys.. however the belt wears an impression into the pulley and
> then you have sharp > edges. Change the alignment of the belt just
> a little bit and you have shred..I actually replaced it one time on
> the side of the road.. (Couldn't tell you how.. used a coat hanger)
>
> -Stan
>

You think there is some better technology at GM that has the same type
of belt system on the 505 HP Z06. Is that going to be akin to the HP
and the quickness of belt travel you get by adding the Procharger to a
C5? Does Lingerfelter's conversions have the same problems? If so I've
never heard of them maybe someone out there can fill us in on the
unseen problems of some of the other aftermarket superchargers. Maybe
some of the guys that have pumped up the C5 or C6 to the supercharger
HP level without one can also enlighten us about the belt death rate.
--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd


  #15  
Old February 13th 06, 03:41 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

i am running the D1, and i am lucky that i have not had any belt
problems, it will, as it sets now hit 10-10.5 psi on a auto upshift.
and it sure turns them into a differnet car.

i have plans and some of the parts for a 383, with better heads and
more cubes i am looking for 500 rwhp, i think it can be done with out
to much problems. one thing i did do before i put the blower in was to
instal a data logger which i think is almost mandatory on a
supercharged setup, things just happen to quick to be looking at air
fuel ratios, boost and fuel pressures.

do you ever have people look or ask you what the hell is making that
noise?

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:50:40 -0500, "sbright" >
wrote:

>P1SC1. The belt slipped untill the Katech tensioner went in. I'm getting
>ready to pull it though and put the stock one in. Tired of tightening it
>when the belt stretches.
>
>-Stan
> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:18:57 -0500, "sbright" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides
>>>the
>>>belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for
>>>fine
>>>black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven
>>>accessories
>>>thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
>>>this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
>>>wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
>>>alternator, power steering, etc.
>>>
>>>-Stan
>>>

>>
>>>>
>>>

>> there have been some attemenpts made to get away from the belt, Lexus
>> with there hydraulic cooling fan, most aircraft engines have a gear
>> drive for the vacum pump and other things. as long as the belts are
>> cheap we are going to have them for a long time.
>>
>> But as you know Stan, the real problem is not the belt, but rather a
>> misalignment and not a wide enough belt.
>>
>> Ps did you have any belt sllipage problems with your procharger?
>> and which model are you running?

>

  #16  
Old February 24th 06, 01:30 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

Yeah.. had a Mustang guy pull up next to me and heard the "BUCKET OF BOLTS"
sound...
I think he was still sneering at me when I saw him in my rear view..

-Stan

> wrote in message
...
>i am running the D1, and i am lucky that i have not had any belt
> problems, it will, as it sets now hit 10-10.5 psi on a auto upshift.
> and it sure turns them into a differnet car.
>
> i have plans and some of the parts for a 383, with better heads and
> more cubes i am looking for 500 rwhp, i think it can be done with out
> to much problems. one thing i did do before i put the blower in was to
> instal a data logger which i think is almost mandatory on a
> supercharged setup, things just happen to quick to be looking at air
> fuel ratios, boost and fuel pressures.
>
> do you ever have people look or ask you what the hell is making that
> noise?
>
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:50:40 -0500, "sbright" >
> wrote:
>
>>P1SC1. The belt slipped untill the Katech tensioner went in. I'm getting
>>ready to pull it though and put the stock one in. Tired of tightening it
>>when the belt stretches.
>>
>>-Stan
> wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:18:57 -0500, "sbright" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides
>>>>the
>>>>belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for
>>>>fine
>>>>black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>>>>
>>>>Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven
>>>>accessories
>>>>thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
>>>>this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
>>>>wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
>>>>alternator, power steering, etc.
>>>>
>>>>-Stan
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> there have been some attemenpts made to get away from the belt, Lexus
>>> with there hydraulic cooling fan, most aircraft engines have a gear
>>> drive for the vacum pump and other things. as long as the belts are
>>> cheap we are going to have them for a long time.
>>>
>>> But as you know Stan, the real problem is not the belt, but rather a
>>> misalignment and not a wide enough belt.
>>>
>>> Ps did you have any belt sllipage problems with your procharger?
>>> and which model are you running?

>>



 




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