A purist's rant

On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
"completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606

First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".

What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.

To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
(I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.

Shooting Shark wrote:

> On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
> "completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he
>
> http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606
>
> First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
> 1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
> wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
> egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
> vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
> a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".
>
> What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
> I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
> owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
> wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.
>
> To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
> like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
> anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
> higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
> (I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
> commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.

I've modified my Studebaker, I guess I'm not on your Mr. Happy list
anymore (in my defense, all mods are bolt-on and reversible, at least so
far.)

I do hear you though, on eBay right now is a nice looking '37 Stude
business coupe - with no suspension or drivetrain of course. Can you
say "aborted street rod?" I've always wanted a biz coupe but I refuse
to buy one with the small six... and here shows up a '37 Dictator and
all the important stuff is GONE!

*sigh*

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> Shooting Shark wrote:
>
> > On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
> > "completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he
> >
> > http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606
> >
> > First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
> > 1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
> > wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
> > egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
> > vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
> > a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".
> >
> > What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> > taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> > of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> > modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> > the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> > spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> > the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> > eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
> > I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
> > owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
> > wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.
> >
> > To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
> > like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
> > anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
> > higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
> > (I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
> > commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.
>
> I've modified my Studebaker, I guess I'm not on your Mr. Happy list
> anymore (in my defense, all mods are bolt-on and reversible, at least so
> far.)
>
> I do hear you though, on eBay right now is a nice looking '37 Stude
> business coupe - with no suspension or drivetrain of course. Can you
> say "aborted street rod?" I've always wanted a biz coupe but I refuse
> to buy one with the small six... and here shows up a '37 Dictator and
> all the important stuff is GONE!
>
> *sigh*
>
> nate
>
>


Well, I know of a Coupe Express engine block that's available...



--
JT

Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4

> > What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> > taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> > of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> > modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> > the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> > spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> > the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> > eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing.

Well, here's something to consider. You don't know the shape the vehicle was
in before it was hot-rodded. While there are people who cut up decent
vehicles (and who am I to tell them what to do with their property?), a huge
number of rods started out as rusty shells that no restorer would touch. For
many of them, an accurate restoration would cost more than the finished
product would be worth.

My 1949 Studebaker is chopped, carries a 350, and has numerous body
modifications. It sat in a farmer's field for some 30 years. When the fellow
who built my truck dragged it out, he offered it for sale to a couple of
restorers who said they didn't want to start with such a tough project. So
my truck faced one of two scenarios: modification into a vehicle that sees
the road regularly, or left in a field to rot even more.

Rabbit

A extremely valid point - I have a buddy who has an aluminum bodied Bentley
2-door coupe( one of less than 50 built), fifties vintage, that has the
exact same story - not a single restorer would touch it....coachwork was all
rotted, aluminum body mangled in places, floors shot, etc., etc. Restoration
would have cost multiples of what it would be worth restored.

Now, thanks to some "sacrilegious" hot rodders, its on the road with a
Viper motor, corvette clips front and rear, and some truly unique custom
aluminum body mods that were done to repair areas of the original that were
shot. Very COOL and distinctive ride!!!

I've even been given grief by some purists about "bastar*izing" my Datsun
Roadster - about 45,000 built - but I saved it from the crusher, and the
somewhat rare stock parts I'm NOT using are finding their way to those who
ARE restoring low-windshield Roadsters.


--
V8Z
Chevy V6 powered '66 Datsun Roadster
http://www.mildevco.net/chevypowereddatsuns/
Chevy V8 powered '77 Datsun 280Z
http://www.mildevco.net/chevypowereddatsuns/


"Rabbit" > wrote in message
...
>
> > > What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> > > taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> > > of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> > > modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> > > the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> > > spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> > > the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> > > eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing.
>
> Well, here's something to consider. You don't know the shape the vehicle
was
> in before it was hot-rodded. While there are people who cut up decent
> vehicles (and who am I to tell them what to do with their property?), a
huge
> number of rods started out as rusty shells that no restorer would touch.
For
> many of them, an accurate restoration would cost more than the finished
> product would be worth.
>
> My 1949 Studebaker is chopped, carries a 350, and has numerous body
> modifications. It sat in a farmer's field for some 30 years. When the
fellow
> who built my truck dragged it out, he offered it for sale to a couple of
> restorers who said they didn't want to start with such a tough project. So
> my truck faced one of two scenarios: modification into a vehicle that sees
> the road regularly, or left in a field to rot even more.
>
> Rabbit
>
>

On 11 Sep 2004 14:34:05 -0700, (Shooting
Shark) wrote:

>On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
>"completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he
>
>http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606
>
>First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
>1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
>wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
>egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
>vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
>a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".
>
>What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
>taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
>of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
>modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
>the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
>spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
>the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
>eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
>I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
>owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
>wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.
>
>To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
>like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
>anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
>higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
>(I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
>commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.

As the owner of a mildly modified Hupmobile I take exception to the
term "crime". My car was nearly complete when I found it but it was
missing some key components like the starter and distributor. I could
have had new ones machined but the cost outweighed the benefits. Had I
gone the restoration route I would have had an 80 HP car with cable
actuated brakes. The car might have been fine for use in parades and
car shows but would not have been reliable or safe for every day
driving. I removed the 900 lb cast iron straight 6 engine and replaced
it with a 160 hp, 300lb Chevy 250. Power disk brakes have been
installed for improved stopping. When the vehicle ahead stops I can
stop too unlike a stock Hup. I've taken care to retain the original
looks of the car both inside and out. The automatic transmission uses
the original shift handle. The parking brake is original. The
upholstery is mohair duplicating the original patterns. The power
windows are operated by the original window cranks. The Chevy engine
is very close in appearance and size to the Hupp. I can buy and
running gear parts at any parts store in the US. I can buy Hupp parts
nowhere. I now drive my car every day. How many purists can say the
same?

Riteous Right Reverend Mahmoud Bin Changstein > wrote in message >. ..
> On 11 Sep 2004 14:34:05 -0700, (Shooting
> Shark) wrote:
>
> >On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
> >"completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he
> >
> >http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606
> >
> >First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
> >1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
> >wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
> >egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
> >vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
> >a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".
> >
> >What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> >taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> >of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> >modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> >the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> >spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> >the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> >eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
> >I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
> >owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
> >wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.
> >
> >To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
> >like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
> >anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
> >higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
> >(I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
> >commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.
>
> As the owner of a mildly modified Hupmobile I take exception to the
> term "crime". My car was nearly complete when I found it but it was
> missing some key components like the starter and distributor. I could
> have had new ones machined but the cost outweighed the benefits. Had I
> gone the restoration route I would have had an 80 HP car with cable
> actuated brakes. The car might have been fine for use in parades and
> car shows but would not have been reliable or safe for every day
> driving. I removed the 900 lb cast iron straight 6 engine and replaced
> it with a 160 hp, 300lb Chevy 250. Power disk brakes have been
> installed for improved stopping. When the vehicle ahead stops I can
> stop too unlike a stock Hup. I've taken care to retain the original
> looks of the car both inside and out. The automatic transmission uses
> the original shift handle. The parking brake is original. The
> upholstery is mohair duplicating the original patterns. The power
> windows are operated by the original window cranks. The Chevy engine
> is very close in appearance and size to the Hupp. I can buy and
> running gear parts at any parts store in the US. I can buy Hupp parts
> nowhere. I now drive my car every day. How many purists can say the
> same?

The point is, you have modified a car, not restored. Refer to it as
"rebuilt", or "modified", just don't call it "restored", it isn't.

Riteous Right Reverend Mahmoud Bin Changstein > wrote in message >. ..
> On 11 Sep 2004 14:34:05 -0700, (Shooting
> Shark) wrote:
>
> >On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
> >"completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he
> >
> >http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606
> >
> >First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
> >1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
> >wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
> >egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
> >vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
> >a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".
> >
> >What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> >taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> >of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> >modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> >the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> >spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> >the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> >eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
> >I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
> >owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
> >wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.
> >
> >To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
> >like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
> >anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
> >higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
> >(I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
> >commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.
>
> As the owner of a mildly modified Hupmobile I take exception to the
> term "crime". My car was nearly complete when I found it but it was
> missing some key components like the starter and distributor. I could
> have had new ones machined but the cost outweighed the benefits. Had I
> gone the restoration route I would have had an 80 HP car with cable
> actuated brakes. The car might have been fine for use in parades and
> car shows but would not have been reliable or safe for every day
> driving. I removed the 900 lb cast iron straight 6 engine and replaced
> it with a 160 hp, 300lb Chevy 250. Power disk brakes have been
> installed for improved stopping. When the vehicle ahead stops I can
> stop too unlike a stock Hup. I've taken care to retain the original
> looks of the car both inside and out. The automatic transmission uses
> the original shift handle. The parking brake is original. The
> upholstery is mohair duplicating the original patterns. The power
> windows are operated by the original window cranks. The Chevy engine
> is very close in appearance and size to the Hupp. I can buy and
> running gear parts at any parts store in the US. I can buy Hupp parts
> nowhere. I now drive my car every day. How many purists can say the
> same?

You don't have a Hupmobile. You have a Chevy in a Hupmobile shell.
The difference is of the same magnitude as that between a lightning
bug and lightning.

JDB wrote:
>
> Riteous Right Reverend Mahmoud Bin Changstein > wrote in message >. ..
> > On 11 Sep 2004 14:34:05 -0700, (Shooting
> > Shark) wrote:
> >
> > >On Hemmings' website today, I saw someone purporting to sell a
> > >"completely restored" 1938 LaSalle. The site is he
> > >
> > >http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...ail/id/2121606
> > >
> > >First of all, it's silver, which I question was a factory color in
> > >1938. Second, even the most casual observer will notice that the
> > >wheels are contemporary as are the tires. But those aren't the most
> > >egregious crimes: the poster goes on to point out with pride that this
> > >vehicle is now equipped with (and I quote) "custom interior, audio,
> > >a/c, power steering" and "all parts aluminum and polished".
> > >
> > >What these bozos have done is nothing short of criminal. They have
> > >taken a piece of automotive history--there are only about 880 LaSalles
> > >of all ages and types in the world--and ruined it by making it a
> > >modified vehicle. The money spent on making it a toy that would be
> > >the delight of some NASCAR country slackjawed yahoo could have been
> > >spent on restoring it properly to the way it was when it rolled off
> > >the assembly line in 1938 (or late 1937)--and it would have been
> > >eminently driveable, and a lot more appealing. If I had the money,
> > >I'd buy it, restore it correctly, and make damn sure the previous
> > >owners had their noses rubbed in every and any little thing they did
> > >wrong as an example to others: don't screw with the true classics.
> > >
> > >To all of you NHRA types out the go ahead and modify Fords all you
> > >like; they're a dime a dozen, and nobody much cares about Fords
> > >anyhow. You've seen one, and you've seen 'em all. But modifying a
> > >higher-end vehicle, like a LaSalle or Packard, or a now-gone marque
> > >(I've seen Hupmobiles and Cords modified) is criminal, and those that
> > >commit such crimes commit the unforgiveable.
> >
> > As the owner of a mildly modified Hupmobile I take exception to the
> > term "crime". My car was nearly complete when I found it but it was
> > missing some key components like the starter and distributor. I could
> > have had new ones machined but the cost outweighed the benefits. Had I
> > gone the restoration route I would have had an 80 HP car with cable
> > actuated brakes. The car might have been fine for use in parades and
> > car shows but would not have been reliable or safe for every day
> > driving. I removed the 900 lb cast iron straight 6 engine and replaced
> > it with a 160 hp, 300lb Chevy 250. Power disk brakes have been
> > installed for improved stopping. When the vehicle ahead stops I can
> > stop too unlike a stock Hup. I've taken care to retain the original
> > looks of the car both inside and out. The automatic transmission uses
> > the original shift handle. The parking brake is original. The
> > upholstery is mohair duplicating the original patterns. The power
> > windows are operated by the original window cranks. The Chevy engine
> > is very close in appearance and size to the Hupp. I can buy and
> > running gear parts at any parts store in the US. I can buy Hupp parts
> > nowhere. I now drive my car every day. How many purists can say the
> > same?
>
> You don't have a Hupmobile. You have a Chevy in a Hupmobile shell.
> The difference is of the same magnitude as that between a lightning
> bug and lightning.



I gotta remember that one!

<G>



--
JT

Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4

> You don't have a Hupmobile. You have a Chevy in a Hupmobile shell.
> The difference is of the same magnitude as that between a lightning
> bug and lightning.

Let's say a restorer drags a rusty shell out of a scrapyard. There's a
frame, two doors, half the hood. He finds an engine that came out of another
Hupp. He repairs the frame. He has to have a trunk lid made out of two other
rusty ones. The driveline is the result of numerous trips to Hershey to find
parts.

He has an upholsterer produce a seat. He has someone make a top for it. Half
the restoration is made up of parts from other cars, one-quarter is
reproduction parts, one-quarter is built from scratch.

Does he have an original Hupmobile, or a reproduction model kit?

Rabbit