BMW Auto box gear select problem (offset drive gear???) Wierd

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article <H1h6i.947$aW5.841@trndny09>,
> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
>> > Except that it's from reverse not neutral - not what was asked.
>
>> Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you.
>
> No - once again you're nitpicking.
>
> Transmission selectors have to be designed to prevent idiots killing
> themselves, others, or simply wrecking it.


Once again, YOUR reading comprehension skills have failed you.

Read my first post (HINT: I was the first to reply to the OP), I said that
BMW is accomodating errant shifts by locking out the selection of D.

Read my first post to you (HINT: I was the first to reply to your first
reply to the OP), I said that no other car I've encountered has this sort of
lock out.

I've got more general automotive experience than most, my father was the
General Manager of a new car dealership, and he owned a used car dealership
after that. I've been in literally thousands of makes and models of cars and
trucks. Admittedly, the vast majority of them American cars and trucks, and
American car companies tend to all do the same thing most of the time. But,
in my experience, I've driven every major brand of automobile in the world,
with very few exceptions.

In every case, the selection of D is a straight shot after the gear selector
is taken out of P. My daughter's '00 3 Series is the first car I've
encountered where this is not always true. If the car is placed into D, then
placed into N or R (I forget which, and don't really care), the operator
will encounter a lock out that demands depressing the brake pedal or
operating the lock out button, or both (again, I don't know or care) to
select D again.

Automatic transmissions around the globe have gates that the selector must
be moved through to change gears. The gates can be in the form of a button
on the shift lever that the operator must depress, or slots on the shift
rail that the lever must be aligned with, or tabs that are cleared by
pulling up (toward the steering wheel) in order to be cleared. The first two
are found on floor-shift models, the third is found on column-shift models.

The gates are always as such
P-- the gate is encountered to shift into and out of P. Aditionally, since
about 1990 (give or take), the vehicle operator must also depress the brake
pedal in order to shift out of P.

R -- the gate is encountered to shift into R from N. There is no gate to
shift out of R to N. It pains me to state that there is a gate to shift into
R from P because that gate is really to shift out of P.

N -- There is no gate to bar selection of N from any direction.

D -- There is no gate to bar selection of D from any direction, but there is
a gate that bars selection of 2 and 1. The operator can shift from D to N at
any time, but will encounter a gate to select any gear below D if there are
any. (See NOTE below)

2 -- There is a gate that bars selection of this gear and the gear below it
if there is one, but no gate to control the selection of D. The operator can
move from 2 to D by simply moving the gear selector. If there is a physical
gate that the selector must be laterally aligned with to get into 2, the
selector will be spring loaded in such a manner to cause the selector to
return laterally to the D gate without the operator making a conscious
effort.

1 -- There is a gate that bars selection of 1, but does not impede the
selection of 2.



The gate that bars movement out of P is for safety reasons. It prevents the
vehicle from being put into motion inadvertantly. The relatively recent
addition of the Brake Pedal switch to the P gates/lock out is a further
attempt to make automatic transmission equipped cars and trucks safer.

The gate that bars selection of P from another gear selection is intended to
protect the transmission. Inadvertant movement of the shift lever from a
position that allows vehicle movement into P can destroy the transmission.

The gates that bar inadvertant selection of R, or the 2 and 1 gears is also
are an attempt at fail safe -- if the selector is moved to these positions
at an inappropriate time, serious damage to the engine or transmission can
result. Albeit, recent improvements in automatic transmission controllers
might preclude damage by selecting a low range gear at high speeds, the
gates remain. The vehicle operator has to make a decision to select these
gears. The decision may or may not be appropriate at the time, but it has to
be made.

NOTE:
Very recently, it seems that some car makers have added a Brake Pedal switch
to prevent some selections of D. If there is such a switch, it will be for
safety reasons -- the car will be prevented from being put into motion
inadvertantly. If there is any prevention of placing the shift selector into
D from N, it must be inoperative if the vehicle is already in motion.

In article <e0j6i.230$2v5.194@trndny06>,
Jeff Strickland > wrote:
> Read my first post (HINT: I was the first to reply to the OP), I said
> that BMW is accomodating errant shifts by locking out the selection of
> D.

> Read my first post to you (HINT: I was the first to reply to your first
> reply to the OP), I said that no other car I've encountered has this
> sort of lock out.

Sigh. And said every auto I've had since the '60s doesn't allow direct
selection of drive from neutral simply by moving the lever. Whether by
having a brake interlock on as later cars or by requiring a button etc to
be pressed.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote
> "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote

Sigh. You guys just can't get along, can you.

> N -- There is no gate to bar selection of N from any direction.

This is actually a safety feature - in case the throttle gets stuck, for
instance.

FloydR

"Floyd Rogers" > wrote in message
news:VpmdnY0KBPbKWsTbnZ2dnUVZ_oKnnZ2d@scnresearch. com...
> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote
>> "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote
>
> Sigh. You guys just can't get along, can you.
>
>> N -- There is no gate to bar selection of N from any direction.
>
> This is actually a safety feature - in case the throttle gets stuck, for
> instance.


I'm good with that. I would not have thunk it, but I have no reason to not
accept it.

On Sun, 27 May 2007 17:14:50 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" > wrote:

>
>"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
>> In article <H1h6i.947$aW5.841@trndny09>,
>> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
>>> > Except that it's from reverse not neutral - not what was asked.
>>
>>> Once again, your reading comprehension has failed you.
>>
>> No - once again you're nitpicking.
>>
>> Transmission selectors have to be designed to prevent idiots killing
>> themselves, others, or simply wrecking it.
>
>
>Once again, YOUR reading comprehension skills have failed you.
>
>Read my first post (HINT: I was the first to reply to the OP), I said that
>BMW is accomodating errant shifts by locking out the selection of D.
>
>Read my first post to you (HINT: I was the first to reply to your first
>reply to the OP), I said that no other car I've encountered has this sort of
>lock out.
>
>I've got more general automotive experience than most, my father was the
>General Manager of a new car dealership, and he owned a used car dealership
>after that. I've been in literally thousands of makes and models of cars and
>trucks. Admittedly, the vast majority of them American cars and trucks, and
>American car companies tend to all do the same thing most of the time. But,
>in my experience, I've driven every major brand of automobile in the world,
>with very few exceptions.

So have I and I find that 99% of US built cars to be totally retro engineered
with the exception of foreign owned companies or with design bases in other
parts of the world.

Until the US makers found that UK cars actually went round corners and stopped
they never entertained the notion of disc brakes even after being proved to be
far superior on aircraft.

Drum brakes came as standard on the 440 and 426 Dodge/Chryslers until they used
the Mitsubishi Colt based rubbish in the mid 70s.

Aluminium brake cylinders and other parts were not fitted until late 70s on many
US cars.
>
>In every case, the selection of D is a straight shot after the gear selector
>is taken out of P. My daughter's '00 3 Series is the first car I've
>encountered where this is not always true. If the car is placed into D, then
>placed into N or R (I forget which, and don't really care), the operator
>will encounter a lock out that demands depressing the brake pedal or
>operating the lock out button, or both (again, I don't know or care) to
>select D again.

The OP was talking about sideways movement hampering engagement of D or
whatever.

I see you are now mentioning the "INTERLOCK" to stop shifting into P from D or
from N to P inadvertently.

With this I agree it can be a PITA but I modified my shifter on a few motors to
have a forward shift from 2 > 3 > D lock N lock P so I could shift manually
without blowing the engine by accidentally shifting to N.
>
>Automatic transmissions around the globe have gates that the selector must
>be moved through to change gears. The gates can be in the form of a button
>on the shift lever that the operator must depress, or slots on the shift
>rail that the lever must be aligned with, or tabs that are cleared by
>pulling up (toward the steering wheel) in order to be cleared. The first two
>are found on floor-shift models, the third is found on column-shift models.
>
>The gates are always as such
>P-- the gate is encountered to shift into and out of P. Aditionally, since
>about 1990 (give or take), the vehicle operator must also depress the brake
>pedal in order to shift out of P.

Rubbish - My 2000 Sebring convertible and 2000 Camaro did not have this "foot
on the brake to shift into D"
>
>R -- the gate is encountered to shift into R from N. There is no gate to
>shift out of R to N. It pains me to state that there is a gate to shift into
>R from P because that gate is really to shift out of P.
>
>N -- There is no gate to bar selection of N from any direction.

Agree - except for the new ZF/BMW 6 speed autos - all electronic and impossible
to get N without the engine running and the parking brake off. There must be a
way but it's not in the hand book so when it needs a tow they'll have to use a
rear end lift.
>
>D -- There is no gate to bar selection of D from any direction, but there is
>a gate that bars selection of 2 and 1. The operator can shift from D to N at
>any time, but will encounter a gate to select any gear below D if there are
>any. (See NOTE below)
>
>2 -- There is a gate that bars selection of this gear and the gear below it
>if there is one, but no gate to control the selection of D. The operator can
>move from 2 to D by simply moving the gear selector. If there is a physical
>gate that the selector must be laterally aligned with to get into 2, the
>selector will be spring loaded in such a manner to cause the selector to
>return laterally to the D gate without the operator making a conscious
>effort.
>
>1 -- There is a gate that bars selection of 1, but does not impede the
>selection of 2.
>
>
>
>The gate that bars movement out of P is for safety reasons. It prevents the
>vehicle from being put into motion inadvertantly. The relatively recent
>addition of the Brake Pedal switch to the P gates/lock out is a further
>attempt to make automatic transmission equipped cars and trucks safer.
>
>The gate that bars selection of P from another gear selection is intended to
>protect the transmission. Inadvertant movement of the shift lever from a
>position that allows vehicle movement into P can destroy the transmission.
>
>The gates that bar inadvertant selection of R, or the 2 and 1 gears is also
>are an attempt at fail safe -- if the selector is moved to these positions
>at an inappropriate time, serious damage to the engine or transmission can
>result. Albeit, recent improvements in automatic transmission controllers
>might preclude damage by selecting a low range gear at high speeds, the
>gates remain. The vehicle operator has to make a decision to select these
>gears. The decision may or may not be appropriate at the time, but it has to
>be made.
>
>NOTE:
>Very recently, it seems that some car makers have added a Brake Pedal switch
>to prevent some selections of D. If there is such a switch, it will be for
>safety reasons -- the car will be prevented from being put into motion
>inadvertantly. If there is any prevention of placing the shift selector into
>D from N, it must be inoperative if the vehicle is already in motion.
>
>
>

On Sun, 27 May 2007 11:00:51 -0700, "Floyd Rogers" >
wrote:

>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote
>> "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote
>
>Sigh. You guys just can't get along, can you.
>
>> N -- There is no gate to bar selection of N from any direction.
>
>This is actually a safety feature - in case the throttle gets stuck, for
>instance.
>
>FloydR
>
One could turn off the ignition but not engage the steering lock

On Sun, 27 May 2007 18:46:50 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" > wrote:

>
>"Floyd Rogers" > wrote in message
>news:VpmdnY0KBPbKWsTbnZ2dnUVZ_oKnnZ2d@scnresearch .com...
>> "Jeff Strickland" > wrote
>>> "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote
>>
>> Sigh. You guys just can't get along, can you.
>>
>>> N -- There is no gate to bar selection of N from any direction.
>>
>> This is actually a safety feature - in case the throttle gets stuck, for
>> instance.
>
>
>I'm good with that. I would not have thunk it, but I have no reason to not
>accept it.
>
>
When was the last time you drove a car and the throttle stuck wide open?

In 45 years of driving, racing and being involved with cars and bikes I have
never had a throttle stick open on me - Stirling Moss allegedly had his massive
accident due to that as did Sir Jacky Stewart but both instances were
assumptions and Stirling cannot remember the accident.

I dare say it has happened but the chances are rare. It's more likely you would
hit a tree, lamp post or some other roadside furniture before your throttle
stuck open.

However, I bet it's been used as an excuse to insurance companies when the
driver was drunk or under the influence of drugs or being given a blow job by
his girlfriend (boyfriend?)

On Sun, 27 May 2007 21:39:55 +0100, wrote:

>On Sun, 27 May 2007 18:46:50 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" > wrote:

>When was the last time you drove a car and the throttle stuck wide open?

In 1969, I think. It was a 2 or 3 year old Morris Oxford, and the
return spring on the accelerator pedal broke and the pedal fell to the
floor, uncontrollably unleashing all of the awesome power of the car.

I jury rigged a return spring from some rubber bands looped around the
pedal and hooked onto somewhere under the dash which got me home fine
and worked for a few days until I got around to fixing it.
--
Dan.

In article >,
> wrote:
> When was the last time you drove a car and the throttle stuck wide open?

Only once - and on an E-type Jag. The throttle linkage has a bell crank
which went over centre. It was (obviously) incorrectly adjusted and the
owner had never used full throttle since new.

--
*Why is it that doctors call what they do "practice"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dean Dark wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2007 21:39:55 +0100, wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 27 May 2007 18:46:50 GMT, "Jeff Strickland" > wrote:
>
>
>>When was the last time you drove a car and the throttle stuck wide open?
>
>
> In 1969, I think. It was a 2 or 3 year old Morris Oxford, and the
> return spring on the accelerator pedal broke and the pedal fell to the
> floor, uncontrollably unleashing all of the awesome power of the car.

See, those UK cars are far superior to that American automotive trash.

--
-Fred W