325iX AWD question

No low range on the Freelander. Just AWD...

Ah.. and there lies the superiority of the Rover, (or at least the
older ones) a center diff that does allow the front and rear axles to
turn at different speeds- or if you are feeling fancy, you can lock the
center diff and force equal power., However, this goes back to the
beginning of the article and the point I was trying to discern...

from John Burns "Find that hard to believe. The system has a chain
driven transfer case
at the back of the gearbox. It's permanent 4wd, nothing fancy. "

and "Full time 4WD = AWD. "

So it would seem to be a concensus that 4wd=awd, yet the awd still does
not have the off road ability of a 4wd, so all Im asking is that the
two terms not be used interchangabley.

"Fred W" > wrote
> Corey Shuman wrote:
>> so if awd means full time 4wd, then why does the freelander get stuck
>> in mud and cant traverse rocks when the "4wd" Disco, has no problem
>> with the same obstacles??
>>
>
> Because "full time" is NOT superior for off-road traction. It just
> means "always on" so you get to use it in all road conditions. True 4WD
> *is* superior in off-road conditions because the transfer case sends
> power (equally) to both front and rear axles. So you will get power
> from either axle with traction regardless of what the other axle is
> doing. However, since the transfer case has no "differential"
> mechanism, the front and rear axles can't turn at different speeds,
> which means you can't engage it on dry roads if you intend on turning.

So, Fred, my '01 330xi is a superior 4WD system for off-road use,
since it has a permanent 33% front 67% rear torque split. I think
you need a better defining condition for AWD vs. 4WD.

FloydR

Floyd Rogers wrote:
> "Fred W" > wrote
>
>> Corey Shuman wrote:
>>
>>> so if awd means full time 4wd, then why does the freelander get stuck
>>> in mud and cant traverse rocks when the "4wd" Disco, has no problem
>>> with the same obstacles??
>>>
>>
>> Because "full time" is NOT superior for off-road traction. It just
>> means "always on" so you get to use it in all road conditions. True
>> 4WD *is* superior in off-road conditions because the transfer case
>> sends power (equally) to both front and rear axles. So you will get
>> power from either axle with traction regardless of what the other axle
>> is doing. However, since the transfer case has no "differential"
>> mechanism, the front and rear axles can't turn at different speeds,
>> which means you can't engage it on dry roads if you intend on turning.
>
>
> So, Fred, my '01 330xi is a superior 4WD system for off-road use,
> since it has a permanent 33% front 67% rear torque split. I think
> you need a better defining condition for AWD vs. 4WD.
>
> FloydR

Read my post again. I said that AWD (aka full time 4WD) is *not*
superior. Therefore (as if you didn't already know) your 330xi is not
an off road monster, but is more suitable to use on-road.

--
-Fred W

"Fred W" > wrote
> Floyd Rogers wrote:
>> "Fred W" > wrote
>>
>>> Corey Shuman wrote:
>>>> so if awd means full time 4wd, then why does the freelander get stuck
>>>> in mud and cant traverse rocks when the "4wd" Disco, has no problem
>>>> with the same obstacles??
>>>>
>>> Because "full time" is NOT superior for off-road traction. It just
>>> means "always on" so you get to use it in all road conditions. True
>>> 4WD *is* superior in off-road conditions because the transfer case
>>> sends power (equally) to both front and rear axles. So you will get
>>> power from either axle with traction regardless of what the other axle
>>> is doing. However, since the transfer case has no "differential"
>>> mechanism, the front and rear axles can't turn at different speeds,
>>> which means you can't engage it on dry roads if you intend on turning.
>>
>> So, Fred, my '01 330xi is a superior 4WD system for off-road use,
>> since it has a permanent 33% front 67% rear torque split. I think
>> you need a better defining condition for AWD vs. 4WD.
>
> Read my post again. I said that AWD (aka full time 4WD) is *not*
> superior. Therefore (as if you didn't already know) your 330xi is not
> an off road monster, but is more suitable to use on-road.

Sorry, Fred, but you *agree* (with Corey) that a permanent split defines
4WD, yet you say that the 330xi is AWD. To me, those statements are
incompatible. In fact, the 330xi (using ADB) can move when only
one wheel has traction, which is superior to your 4WD explanation.

It's all semantics anyway; what matters is if the system gets you
where you want to go. My 330xi gets me up snowy roads and our
gravel roads quite well. My Toyota T100 4x4 gets me up most forest
roads that need more ground clearance and lower speeds that my 330xi
doesn't.

FloydR

all-wheel drive:
(AWD) A variation of four-wheel drive (4WD) designed to improve on-road
traction in unfavorable road conditions or for ultra high performance
driving. All-Wheel Drive (AWD) reduces wheel slippage and provides greater
driver control over the vehicle. AWD usually does not require the driver to
actively engage the system and does not have a low range. AWD automatically
splits engine torque between the front and rear wheels as needed. All-Wheel
Drive is generally an on-road system and is not designed for off-road use.

four-wheel drive:
(4WD) A type of drive system in which both front wheels are connected to its
own differential and axles, and both back wheels are connected to its own
differential and axles. Between these two differentials there is a transfer
case which allows you, in the case of part-time four wheel drive, to switch
between two-wheel drive and four-wheel drive. In full-time four-wheel drive
power is sent to both differentials.

full-time four-wheel drive:
A condition where all four wheels are always being driven by the drivetrain.
It may include the option of part-time (that is, shifting into 2WD for dry
pavement) operation, and may or may not have Hi and Lo 4WD speed ranges. The
British term is "permanent four-wheel drive."


real-time four-wheel drive:
An automatic four-wheel drive engagement by means of an electro-hydraulic
clutch or a viscous coupling incorporated in the drivetrain.

Ferguson four-wheel drive:
A transmission system in which power is distributed through a special
viscous coupling differential, 37% to the front wheels and 63% to the rear
wheels

Torsen four-wheel drive:
Based on the principle that a worm gear can drive a roller but not vice
versa, the Torsen differential balances different wheel speeds due to
different travel distances, whereas speed differences due to differing
adherence situations are not balanced. A permanently engaged four-wheel
drive incorporating a torsen differential

automatic four-wheel drive:
(A4WD) A driving system that automatically engages 4WD as needed, usually by
monitoring differences in individual wheel speeds and thus sensing when a
tire is slipping.

part-time four-wheel drive:
A manually selectable four-wheel drive

Cripes!!!!


"Floyd Rogers" > wrote in message
...
> "Fred W" > wrote
>> Floyd Rogers wrote:
>>> "Fred W" > wrote
>>>
>>>> Corey Shuman wrote:
>>>>> so if awd means full time 4wd, then why does the freelander get stuck
>>>>> in mud and cant traverse rocks when the "4wd" Disco, has no problem
>>>>> with the same obstacles??
>>>>>
>>>> Because "full time" is NOT superior for off-road traction. It just
>>>> means "always on" so you get to use it in all road conditions. True
>>>> 4WD *is* superior in off-road conditions because the transfer case
>>>> sends power (equally) to both front and rear axles. So you will get
>>>> power from either axle with traction regardless of what the other axle
>>>> is doing. However, since the transfer case has no "differential"
>>>> mechanism, the front and rear axles can't turn at different speeds,
>>>> which means you can't engage it on dry roads if you intend on turning.
>>>
>>> So, Fred, my '01 330xi is a superior 4WD system for off-road use,
>>> since it has a permanent 33% front 67% rear torque split. I think
>>> you need a better defining condition for AWD vs. 4WD.
>>
>> Read my post again. I said that AWD (aka full time 4WD) is *not*
>> superior. Therefore (as if you didn't already know) your 330xi is not an
>> off road monster, but is more suitable to use on-road.
>
> Sorry, Fred, but you *agree* (with Corey) that a permanent split defines
> 4WD, yet you say that the 330xi is AWD. To me, those statements are
> incompatible. In fact, the 330xi (using ADB) can move when only
> one wheel has traction, which is superior to your 4WD explanation.
>
> It's all semantics anyway; what matters is if the system gets you
> where you want to go. My 330xi gets me up snowy roads and our
> gravel roads quite well. My Toyota T100 4x4 gets me up most forest
> roads that need more ground clearance and lower speeds that my 330xi
> doesn't.
>
> FloydR

"joe_tide" > wrote
> Cripes!!!!

Indeed! And you haven't even brought up locking diffs! Or auto-locking
hubs
and all the other plethora.

FloydR