There I was, Driving in the Right Lane...

>There are times when
>going with the flow is the only safe thing to do even if that would be
>at what would be considered an unsafe speed.


But not in the right lane. If I was "with the flow" at 70 in the right
lane, I
_might_ have had a problem with slowing for the truck.

What!!!. Here is a clue. Going with the flow means the flow of
traffic in the lane you are using, not some lane 2 or 3 over. You
seem to understand that concept about as well as KRETP.

Harry K

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:30:57 GMT, Arif Khokar > wrote:

>Dave Head wrote:
>
>
>> A straight truck, with a minimum of lights - I think maybe 4 - two down low,
>> two up high, and a big black void in between, appears out of the rain and mist
>> doing about 40 mph. I hit the brakes, slow down without problem, but now...
>>
>> there's a car coming up behind me, assumedly at the 70 mph that most everyone
>> else wants to go, and he gets really, really close before I can tell that he's
>> slowing down at all. Yeah, he got it hauled down before hitting me, but that
>> was close. He had to get it hauled down, as the left lane was full of 70 mph.
>>
>> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call? Easy
>
>Check your mirror,

I did. There was a whole ****load of 70 mph climbing up my rear in the left
lane.

>switch lanes,

Not possible - had to hit the brakes.

>accelerate,

Eventually, after a line of about 10 70's passed me.

>pass the truck,

Eventually.

>check other
>mirror, switch lanes, and slow back down.

Just what I did. Eventually. Meanwhile, I was at a considerable risk from the
guy charging up my rear in my lane. It was 5 AM on a Saturday - he _might_
have been coming back from a party or bar or something and maybe he was just
station-keeping with those 70's on his left. If that had been the case, I'd
have gotten mashed, I think.

>Visibility must not have been that bad if you felt safe going 62 mph.

It wasn't _that_ bad, but it was impaired somewhat.

Dave Head

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 22:30:57 GMT, Arif Khokar > wrote:

>Dave Head wrote:
>
>
>> A straight truck, with a minimum of lights - I think maybe 4 - two down low,
>> two up high, and a big black void in between, appears out of the rain and mist
>> doing about 40 mph. I hit the brakes, slow down without problem, but now...
>>
>> there's a car coming up behind me, assumedly at the 70 mph that most everyone
>> else wants to go, and he gets really, really close before I can tell that he's
>> slowing down at all. Yeah, he got it hauled down before hitting me, but that
>> was close. He had to get it hauled down, as the left lane was full of 70 mph.
>>
>> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call? Easy
>
>Check your mirror,

I did. There was a whole ****load of 70 mph climbing up my rear in the left
lane.

>switch lanes,

Not possible - had to hit the brakes.

>accelerate,

Eventually, after a line of about 10 70's passed me.

>pass the truck,

Eventually.

>check other
>mirror, switch lanes, and slow back down.

Just what I did. Eventually. Meanwhile, I was at a considerable risk from the
guy charging up my rear in my lane. It was 5 AM on a Saturday - he _might_
have been coming back from a party or bar or something and maybe he was just
station-keeping with those 70's on his left. If that had been the case, I'd
have gotten mashed, I think.

>Visibility must not have been that bad if you felt safe going 62 mph.

It wasn't _that_ bad, but it was impaired somewhat.

Dave Head

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:56:14 GMT, (Brent P)
wrote:

>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>
>> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call? Easy - what a
>> JERK - I SHOULDA BEEN IN THE LEFT LANE!!!! Problem would have been solved.
>> The speeding idiots could have just gone around on the right, and rightfully
>> had to deal with the slow truck in the right lane instead of putting me at
>> risk.
>
>So what if the truck driver practices the same line of thought?
>So he ends up cruising at 40mph in the LEFT LANE?

Try and think about this. _Why_ was he in the right lane, and _why_ wasn't
there a line of backed-up cars behind him? Ans: He had just turned onto that
road a very little bit before I found him, most probably. And... there
again... traffic is going to be turning into the _right_ lane, making that the
"place not to be" for cruising.

>I've seen it many
>times,

Well, that's not how it happened _this_ time.

>especially in low visability and bad weather. I've seen it in the
>left lane of the dan ryan express, I've seen it in the left lane of the
>Kennedy express. Places where trucks shouldn't even be, let alone in the
>left lane.
>
>What you are saying is you don't have to obey the keep right laws

As Jaybird pointed out, there's no such law lotsa places. No signs posted on
this stretch...

>but
>for you to be safe, everybody else HAS TO.

Naw, it just happens that way. They're not obeying the law, they're looking
out for their own self-interest. That's all. It just turns out that the
easiest place to run a slow vehicle like a truck on this stretch of road would
be the right lane. 40 mph truck in the left lane would have a hell of a time
getting back to the right lane when he wanted to exit - the road's not an
interstate or anything, but it has few intersections and mostly you're going to
want to go right to get off. There would be 70 mph traffic passing him
continuously on the right, and that would be a hassle for him, so he stays
right. Generally.

>Yet you don't see the
>problem there. Typical me first **** you.

I look out for #1, that's all. I find the left lane so much less exciting than
the right, and this was just another example. Add in the deer, the clueless
pulling out onto the road, etc., and the left lane is the "no bleed" lane.

>The rules are for other people,
>not you.

The rules of physics, as Carl would say, take precidence.

>You are special,

My blood staying right where it is, is very special to me, yes.

>you are more important. Me first, **** you at
>it's finest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... yawn... and you're being repetitive.

>Your whole scheme once again collaspes when you come across another
>driver that thinks the way you do, but drives slower.

Naw, I just pass 'em on the right and keep going... no problem - 'cuz I'm not
a hardhead trying to obey a law that was repealed maybe 30 - 35 years ago.

I feel like I'm talking to people that think that they only have to drive their
own cars, doing rote things "by the book" and they'll be safe. No, no, no.
You gotta drive the other guy's car, too, and that means giving him less
opportunities to hit you, or otherwise screw you. _Don't_, for instance,
arrive at an intersection such that you have to wait for oncoming traffic, with
your ass hanging out in the travel lane while you do it. Speed up and do your
left turn before he gets there, or slow down and do it after he passes. Stuff
like that. And _not_ hanging out in the right lane, following some rule that
about 10% of drivers ever acknowledge and the cops don't enforce at all, is
also a good idea.

And the _fact_ remains I had a close call 'cuz I was idiot enough to be in the
right lane.

Dave Head

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:56:14 GMT, (Brent P)
wrote:

>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>
>> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call? Easy - what a
>> JERK - I SHOULDA BEEN IN THE LEFT LANE!!!! Problem would have been solved.
>> The speeding idiots could have just gone around on the right, and rightfully
>> had to deal with the slow truck in the right lane instead of putting me at
>> risk.
>
>So what if the truck driver practices the same line of thought?
>So he ends up cruising at 40mph in the LEFT LANE?

Try and think about this. _Why_ was he in the right lane, and _why_ wasn't
there a line of backed-up cars behind him? Ans: He had just turned onto that
road a very little bit before I found him, most probably. And... there
again... traffic is going to be turning into the _right_ lane, making that the
"place not to be" for cruising.

>I've seen it many
>times,

Well, that's not how it happened _this_ time.

>especially in low visability and bad weather. I've seen it in the
>left lane of the dan ryan express, I've seen it in the left lane of the
>Kennedy express. Places where trucks shouldn't even be, let alone in the
>left lane.
>
>What you are saying is you don't have to obey the keep right laws

As Jaybird pointed out, there's no such law lotsa places. No signs posted on
this stretch...

>but
>for you to be safe, everybody else HAS TO.

Naw, it just happens that way. They're not obeying the law, they're looking
out for their own self-interest. That's all. It just turns out that the
easiest place to run a slow vehicle like a truck on this stretch of road would
be the right lane. 40 mph truck in the left lane would have a hell of a time
getting back to the right lane when he wanted to exit - the road's not an
interstate or anything, but it has few intersections and mostly you're going to
want to go right to get off. There would be 70 mph traffic passing him
continuously on the right, and that would be a hassle for him, so he stays
right. Generally.

>Yet you don't see the
>problem there. Typical me first **** you.

I look out for #1, that's all. I find the left lane so much less exciting than
the right, and this was just another example. Add in the deer, the clueless
pulling out onto the road, etc., and the left lane is the "no bleed" lane.

>The rules are for other people,
>not you.

The rules of physics, as Carl would say, take precidence.

>You are special,

My blood staying right where it is, is very special to me, yes.

>you are more important. Me first, **** you at
>it's finest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... yawn... and you're being repetitive.

>Your whole scheme once again collaspes when you come across another
>driver that thinks the way you do, but drives slower.

Naw, I just pass 'em on the right and keep going... no problem - 'cuz I'm not
a hardhead trying to obey a law that was repealed maybe 30 - 35 years ago.

I feel like I'm talking to people that think that they only have to drive their
own cars, doing rote things "by the book" and they'll be safe. No, no, no.
You gotta drive the other guy's car, too, and that means giving him less
opportunities to hit you, or otherwise screw you. _Don't_, for instance,
arrive at an intersection such that you have to wait for oncoming traffic, with
your ass hanging out in the travel lane while you do it. Speed up and do your
left turn before he gets there, or slow down and do it after he passes. Stuff
like that. And _not_ hanging out in the right lane, following some rule that
about 10% of drivers ever acknowledge and the cops don't enforce at all, is
also a good idea.

And the _fact_ remains I had a close call 'cuz I was idiot enough to be in the
right lane.

Dave Head

In article >, Dave Head wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:56:14 GMT, (Brent P)
> wrote:
>
>>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>
>>> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call? Easy - what a
>>> JERK - I SHOULDA BEEN IN THE LEFT LANE!!!! Problem would have been solved.
>>> The speeding idiots could have just gone around on the right, and rightfully
>>> had to deal with the slow truck in the right lane instead of putting me at
>>> risk.
>>
>>So what if the truck driver practices the same line of thought?
>>So he ends up cruising at 40mph in the LEFT LANE?

> Try and think about this. _Why_ was he in the right lane, and _why_ wasn't
> there a line of backed-up cars behind him? Ans: He had just turned onto that
> road a very little bit before I found him, most probably. And... there
> again... traffic is going to be turning into the _right_ lane, making that the
> "place not to be" for cruising.

Or he was just going slow. You don't know where he came from, because by
your own description he appeared out of the mist of the rain and
darkness in front of you. For all you know he came via asguard beaming
technology.


>>I've seen it many times,

> Well, that's not how it happened _this_ time.

I've seen lots of trucks in the left lanes. Your entire scheme DEPENDS on
EVERYBODY ELSE obeying keep right laws. If they disobey them like you,
you have no advantage.

>>especially in low visability and bad weather. I've seen it in the
>>left lane of the dan ryan express, I've seen it in the left lane of the
>>Kennedy express. Places where trucks shouldn't even be, let alone in the
>>left lane.

>>What you are saying is you don't have to obey the keep right laws

> As Jaybird pointed out, there's no such law lotsa places. No signs posted on
> this stretch...

Try the state vehicle code. Even if no law exists, you DEPEND on
EVERYBODY else driving to the right to have your advantage. Once they
drive in the left lane like you, the advantages you claim to left lane
crusing vanish.

>>but for you to be safe, everybody else HAS TO.

> Naw, it just happens that way. They're not obeying the law, they're looking
> out for their own self-interest.

According to you, if they were doing that, they'd be in the LEFT LANE.

> That's all. It just turns out that the
> easiest place to run a slow vehicle like a truck on this stretch of road would
> be the right lane. 40 mph truck in the left lane would have a hell of a time
> getting back to the right lane when he wanted to exit - the road's not an
> interstate or anything, but it has few intersections and mostly you're going to
> want to go right to get off. There would be 70 mph traffic passing him
> continuously on the right, and that would be a hassle for him, so he stays
> right. Generally.

Yadda yadda yadda. You're a selfish LLBing, me first, **** you driver.
You are only concerned about yourself, and that's it. When enough other
people start driving like you, but at their chosen speed, your claimed
advantages go away. they don't exist. Your claimed advantages are based
on other people doing what is correct while you just do what ever best
suits you personally.


>>Yet you don't see the problem there. Typical me first **** you.

> I look out for #1, that's all. I find the left lane so much less exciting than
> the right, and this was just another example. Add in the deer, the clueless
> pulling out onto the road, etc., and the left lane is the "no bleed" lane.

I counter your deer with cross overs. I raise you with drunks and elderly
drivers who get on the expressway going the wrong way. Those are all LEFT
LANE hazards.

>>The rules are for other people, not you.

> The rules of physics, as Carl would say, take precidence.

Yes, you are much like carl, looking for any way there is to justify your
selfish driving.

>>Your whole scheme once again collaspes when you come across another
>>driver that thinks the way you do, but drives slower.

> Naw, I just pass 'em on the right and keep going... no problem - 'cuz I'm not
> a hardhead trying to obey a law that was repealed maybe 30 - 35 years ago.

How come you couldn't just pass this truck on the left? The same reason
will keep you from doing so on the right.

> I feel like I'm talking to people that think that they only have to drive their
> own cars, doing rote things "by the book" and they'll be safe. No, no, no.
> You gotta drive the other guy's car, too, and that means giving him less
> opportunities to hit you, or otherwise screw you. _Don't_, for instance,
> arrive at an intersection such that you have to wait for oncoming traffic, with
> your ass hanging out in the travel lane while you do it. Speed up and do your
> left turn before he gets there, or slow down and do it after he passes. Stuff
> like that. And _not_ hanging out in the right lane, following some rule that
> about 10% of drivers ever acknowledge and the cops don't enforce at all, is
> also a good idea.

I drive in much more hostile environment than you do. I can drive well
and keep right except too pass. I don't have to become an LLB to be safe.
Yet you, in an environment that doesn't even occur around here at any
time of day, can't.

> And the _fact_ remains I had a close call 'cuz I was idiot enough to be in the
> right lane.

You had a close call because you're an idiot if anything. I've seen lots
of slow trucks, elderly drivers, and general idiots going much slower
than the flow speed in every lane, including the left. This is nothing
more than your desperate attempt to justify your selfish driving. If the
trucker decides not do what is correct, you're still getting on the
binders when the truck appears suddenly out of the mist to you.

In article >, Dave Head wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 21:56:14 GMT, (Brent P)
> wrote:
>
>>In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>
>>> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call? Easy - what a
>>> JERK - I SHOULDA BEEN IN THE LEFT LANE!!!! Problem would have been solved.
>>> The speeding idiots could have just gone around on the right, and rightfully
>>> had to deal with the slow truck in the right lane instead of putting me at
>>> risk.
>>
>>So what if the truck driver practices the same line of thought?
>>So he ends up cruising at 40mph in the LEFT LANE?

> Try and think about this. _Why_ was he in the right lane, and _why_ wasn't
> there a line of backed-up cars behind him? Ans: He had just turned onto that
> road a very little bit before I found him, most probably. And... there
> again... traffic is going to be turning into the _right_ lane, making that the
> "place not to be" for cruising.

Or he was just going slow. You don't know where he came from, because by
your own description he appeared out of the mist of the rain and
darkness in front of you. For all you know he came via asguard beaming
technology.


>>I've seen it many times,

> Well, that's not how it happened _this_ time.

I've seen lots of trucks in the left lanes. Your entire scheme DEPENDS on
EVERYBODY ELSE obeying keep right laws. If they disobey them like you,
you have no advantage.

>>especially in low visability and bad weather. I've seen it in the
>>left lane of the dan ryan express, I've seen it in the left lane of the
>>Kennedy express. Places where trucks shouldn't even be, let alone in the
>>left lane.

>>What you are saying is you don't have to obey the keep right laws

> As Jaybird pointed out, there's no such law lotsa places. No signs posted on
> this stretch...

Try the state vehicle code. Even if no law exists, you DEPEND on
EVERYBODY else driving to the right to have your advantage. Once they
drive in the left lane like you, the advantages you claim to left lane
crusing vanish.

>>but for you to be safe, everybody else HAS TO.

> Naw, it just happens that way. They're not obeying the law, they're looking
> out for their own self-interest.

According to you, if they were doing that, they'd be in the LEFT LANE.

> That's all. It just turns out that the
> easiest place to run a slow vehicle like a truck on this stretch of road would
> be the right lane. 40 mph truck in the left lane would have a hell of a time
> getting back to the right lane when he wanted to exit - the road's not an
> interstate or anything, but it has few intersections and mostly you're going to
> want to go right to get off. There would be 70 mph traffic passing him
> continuously on the right, and that would be a hassle for him, so he stays
> right. Generally.

Yadda yadda yadda. You're a selfish LLBing, me first, **** you driver.
You are only concerned about yourself, and that's it. When enough other
people start driving like you, but at their chosen speed, your claimed
advantages go away. they don't exist. Your claimed advantages are based
on other people doing what is correct while you just do what ever best
suits you personally.


>>Yet you don't see the problem there. Typical me first **** you.

> I look out for #1, that's all. I find the left lane so much less exciting than
> the right, and this was just another example. Add in the deer, the clueless
> pulling out onto the road, etc., and the left lane is the "no bleed" lane.

I counter your deer with cross overs. I raise you with drunks and elderly
drivers who get on the expressway going the wrong way. Those are all LEFT
LANE hazards.

>>The rules are for other people, not you.

> The rules of physics, as Carl would say, take precidence.

Yes, you are much like carl, looking for any way there is to justify your
selfish driving.

>>Your whole scheme once again collaspes when you come across another
>>driver that thinks the way you do, but drives slower.

> Naw, I just pass 'em on the right and keep going... no problem - 'cuz I'm not
> a hardhead trying to obey a law that was repealed maybe 30 - 35 years ago.

How come you couldn't just pass this truck on the left? The same reason
will keep you from doing so on the right.

> I feel like I'm talking to people that think that they only have to drive their
> own cars, doing rote things "by the book" and they'll be safe. No, no, no.
> You gotta drive the other guy's car, too, and that means giving him less
> opportunities to hit you, or otherwise screw you. _Don't_, for instance,
> arrive at an intersection such that you have to wait for oncoming traffic, with
> your ass hanging out in the travel lane while you do it. Speed up and do your
> left turn before he gets there, or slow down and do it after he passes. Stuff
> like that. And _not_ hanging out in the right lane, following some rule that
> about 10% of drivers ever acknowledge and the cops don't enforce at all, is
> also a good idea.

I drive in much more hostile environment than you do. I can drive well
and keep right except too pass. I don't have to become an LLB to be safe.
Yet you, in an environment that doesn't even occur around here at any
time of day, can't.

> And the _fact_ remains I had a close call 'cuz I was idiot enough to be in the
> right lane.

You had a close call because you're an idiot if anything. I've seen lots
of slow trucks, elderly drivers, and general idiots going much slower
than the flow speed in every lane, including the left. This is nothing
more than your desperate attempt to justify your selfish driving. If the
trucker decides not do what is correct, you're still getting on the
binders when the truck appears suddenly out of the mist to you.

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
> yesterday morning, about 5:00 AM on rt. 5 SE of DC. Everyone else seems
to be
> wanting to do 70 mph in the rain and the dark, the SL is 55, and I'm doing
my
> usual +7 of the SL. In the right lane - I had a right turn coming up in
about
> 5 miles anyway... so what happens?
>
> A straight truck, with a minimum of lights - I think maybe 4 - two down
low,
> two up high, and a big black void in between, appears out of the rain and
mist
> doing about 40 mph. I hit the brakes, slow down without problem, but
now...
>
> there's a car coming up behind me, assumedly at the 70 mph that most
everyone
> else wants to go, and he gets really, really close before I can tell that
he's
> slowing down at all. Yeah, he got it hauled down before hitting me, but
that
> was close. He had to get it hauled down, as the left lane was full of 70
mph.
>
> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call?

Activate your hazard lights? Around here there are signs on the highways
"Use 4-way flashers under 70 km/h" incidentally they are posted below the
KRETP signs.

Another option would be when you see someone coming up behind you, flash
your brake lights.

Of course you shouldn't have your 4-ways on if you are changing lanes, since
the turn signal won't show.

"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
> yesterday morning, about 5:00 AM on rt. 5 SE of DC. Everyone else seems
to be
> wanting to do 70 mph in the rain and the dark, the SL is 55, and I'm doing
my
> usual +7 of the SL. In the right lane - I had a right turn coming up in
about
> 5 miles anyway... so what happens?
>
> A straight truck, with a minimum of lights - I think maybe 4 - two down
low,
> two up high, and a big black void in between, appears out of the rain and
mist
> doing about 40 mph. I hit the brakes, slow down without problem, but
now...
>
> there's a car coming up behind me, assumedly at the 70 mph that most
everyone
> else wants to go, and he gets really, really close before I can tell that
he's
> slowing down at all. Yeah, he got it hauled down before hitting me, but
that
> was close. He had to get it hauled down, as the left lane was full of 70
mph.
>
> What did I do wrong? How could I have avoided this close call?

Activate your hazard lights? Around here there are signs on the highways
"Use 4-way flashers under 70 km/h" incidentally they are posted below the
KRETP signs.

Another option would be when you see someone coming up behind you, flash
your brake lights.

Of course you shouldn't have your 4-ways on if you are changing lanes, since
the turn signal won't show.

In a previous posting, (Brent
P) had the audacity to say:

:I've seen lots of trucks in the left lanes. Your entire scheme DEPENDS on
:EVERYBODY ELSE obeying keep right laws. If they disobey them like you,
:you have no advantage.

= Prisoner's Dilemma Problem

:Yadda yadda yadda. You're a selfish LLBing, me first, **** you driver.

That he is. Though he denies being the "hard core" LLB I
originally accused him of being, he's still trapped in the MFFY
mindset of "I'll cruise left 'cause it's easier for *me*, screw
the rest of you all".

:You are only concerned about yourself, and that's it.

Yup - MFFY at its "finest".

I think Dave (DPH) is one of the few regular posters who
actually tries to defend forms of LLB behaviour. Incredible.
Even Carl "Speed Kills, Yes It Really Really Does, Mamma"
Troller doesn't do that (at least not openly).

--
E.R. aka SJG aka Ricardo
present location: vancouver bc canada