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Antique Car Batteries?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 20th 08, 04:53 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
George Patterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Antique Car Batteries?

Justin wrote:

> But we're not killing anyone. Bascially the story involves hooking up
> two or three modern laptops with car/airline adapters to antique batteries.


You can hook two 6 volt batteries together in series to get the 12 volts
required. Again, though, you might want to look at radio batteries. They were
more readily available at the time, since the AC radio was in its infancy. A
radio of the period could operate all evening on a single charge. There were
facilities in medium-sized towns (or larger) to recharge them every day or
exchange them for fully charged ones.

> Something
> happened to the spacecraft sending our crews back to the 1920's. In
> order to get back, they need to refine enough fuel to make orbit -
> kerosene.


Why do they have to refine it? Kerosene was invented as a replacement for whale
oil in lamps. Gasoline was actually an unwanted byproduct of kerosene production
in the late 1800s. By the 1890s, kerosene was readily available in quantities up
to perhaps 50 gallons at any hardware store. In the '20s, most gas stations had
large tanks of the stuff for use in steam-powered autos (like the Stanley). As
late as the '60s, many U.S. gas stations still had kerosene tanks of 100 to 250
gallons. Larger quantities could be had from fuel suppliers.

> I'm
> not exactly sure when the modern north american sad face plug came
> around, but the point is moot since they can't just bring a modern
> looking spacecraft rolling around in a 1920's city.


If you're talking about 110 volt wiring, that plug came about in the '60s and
was mandated for new installations in the early '70s. Outlets that mimic those
used in the '20s are available from repro houses, so you could get them for your
set (try Reproduction Hardware). Most lower class city houses would have still
used gas or oil lamps for lighting, though, and would not have had electricity.
In any case, the outlet isn't an issue; your character could walk into a 1920s
hardware store, buy a period plug, cut off the 3-prong, and hook his computer
into the house wiring, grounding the safety ground to a water pipe. That's if
the computer was made in the U.S. and you set this in a major U.S. city.

> The author wants to set it in Italy, pre WW2. Where are
> we supposed to get Italian antique vehicles from that period?


You might want to go that route. It would definitely give you an excuse for not
using the local power grid, since a U.S. computer won't run on the European
power system.

> last but not least, having the characters
> interact with people of that era - after all they need food, and money
> to buy fuel.


That's definitely not least. They'd better find someone very rich who feels
generous (unless they just happen to have a supply of antique money on board).

George Patterson
The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.
Ads
  #12  
Old December 20th 08, 06:02 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Justin[_7_]
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Posts: 17
Default Antique Car Batteries?

Heather & Joe Way wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:20:22 -0500, Justin
> > wrote:
>
>
>> He, nice!
>> But we're not killing anyone. Bascially the story involves hooking up
>> two or three modern laptops with car/airline adapters to antique batteries....

> ==========================
> No problem. Two 6 volt car batteries in series, even car batteries of
> that era, would run a laptop for days.
>
> You might toss in a couple of battery recharge events to keep it
> believable and realistic, but the power part is a slam dunk.
>
> Joe



How would one recharge a battery back then? I know I keep one of those
chargers in my trunk, is there a 20's equivalent?
  #13  
Old December 20th 08, 06:30 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Justin[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Antique Car Batteries?

George Patterson wrote:
> Justin wrote:
>
>> But we're not killing anyone. Bascially the story involves hooking up
>> two or three modern laptops with car/airline adapters to antique
>> batteries.

>
> You can hook two 6 volt batteries together in series to get the 12 volts
> required. Again, though, you might want to look at radio batteries. They
> were more readily available at the time, since the AC radio was in its
> infancy. A radio of the period could operate all evening on a single
> charge. There were facilities in medium-sized towns (or larger) to
> recharge them every day or exchange them for fully charged ones.


Ah ha...
That might be a good idea. Good interaction between the people and the
characters.

We're at the planning stages right now, we jot all ideas and put them on
a huge wall.


> Why do they have to refine it? Kerosene was invented as a replacement
> for whale oil in lamps. Gasoline was actually an unwanted byproduct of
> kerosene production in the late 1800s. By the 1890s, kerosene was
> readily available in quantities up to perhaps 50 gallons at any hardware
> store. In the '20s, most gas stations had large tanks of the stuff for
> use in steam-powered autos (like the Stanley). As late as the '60s, many
> U.S. gas stations still had kerosene tanks of 100 to 250 gallons. Larger
> quantities could be had from fuel suppliers.


Sounds too easy.
I'm thinking kerosene of th etime wasn't as clean since it won't be
burned in a sophisticated jet.
What about alcohol? Perhaps a variant of the XCOR type rocket would be
a better plot device. They have one that runs on kerosene and one that
one that runs on alchy.

> If you're talking about 110 volt wiring, that plug came about in the
> '60s and was mandated for new installations in the early '70s. Outlets
> that mimic those used in the '20s are available from repro houses, so
> you could get them for your set (try Reproduction Hardware). Most lower
> class city houses would have still used gas or oil lamps for lighting,
> though, and would not have had electricity. In any case, the outlet
> isn't an issue; your character could walk into a 1920s hardware store,
> buy a period plug, cut off the 3-prong, and hook his computer into the
> house wiring, grounding the safety ground to a water pipe. That's if the
> computer was made in the U.S. and you set this in a major U.S. city.


I think that point is moot since the whole thing will be kept away from
the city. Using mains power wouldn't work out in East Bumble****.

>
>> The author wants to set it in Italy, pre WW2. Where are we supposed
>> to get Italian antique vehicles from that period?

>
> You might want to go that route. It would definitely give you an excuse
> for not using the local power grid, since a U.S. computer won't run on
> the European power system.


All laptoppower supplies can take 100/250v at 50/60Hz - since laptops
are designed to travel. I have a laptop from 1995 in my closet, even
that can take dual voltages. In that case, just buy an extension cord
for one Lire cut the end off and splice it onto the laptops power
cheater cord into the power brick. Nobody wold do that at a Holiday Inn
Express but when an adapter isn't handy you make do with a pocket knife
and electrical tape.

> That's definitely not least. They'd better find someone very rich who
> feels generous (unless they just happen to have a supply of antique
> money on board).
>
> George Patterson
> The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.


Local clubs have been helpful in the past, they do stuff for the local
colleges all the time. I'm an Alum and two of the others are current
students.
One guy has a flatbed truck he's restoring. Right now the puke green
paint he used looks decent but the wheels look like they're used.
Perfect, its not pristine and it should be able to haul something as big
as a EZ-Rocket. He has a fleet of vehicles and he's known for helping
out. He's at the local malls showing off his cars all the time.
Obviously during the winter the cars hibernate, just like my GTO.
  #14  
Old December 20th 08, 06:31 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Heather & Joe Way
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Antique Car Batteries?

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:02:45 -0500, Justin
> wrote:

>Heather & Joe Way wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:20:22 -0500, Justin
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> He, nice!
>>> But we're not killing anyone. Bascially the story involves hooking up
>>> two or three modern laptops with car/airline adapters to antique batteries....

>> ==========================
>> No problem. Two 6 volt car batteries in series, even car batteries of
>> that era, would run a laptop for days.
>>
>> You might toss in a couple of battery recharge events to keep it
>> believable and realistic, but the power part is a slam dunk.
>>
>> Joe

>
>
>How would one recharge a battery back then? I know I keep one of those
>chargers in my trunk, is there a 20's equivalent?

=================================
Yes indeed. I've seen them at swap meets, but it's been a long time.

I believe period chargers used selenium rectifiers. Some early
chargers included a light bulb in series as a current control.

Sorry I can't help with more detail, but someone else will no doubt
step in.

Joe
--
Heather & Joe Way
Sierra Specialty Automotive
Brake cylinders sleeved with brass
Gus Wilson Stories
http://www.brakecylinder.com
  #15  
Old December 20th 08, 06:53 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Justin[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Antique Car Batteries?

fred wrote:
> Justin > wrote in
> :
>
>> Stude wrote:
>>> On Dec 17, 8:10 pm, George Patterson > wrote:
>>>> Justin wrote:
>>>>> What about power? How much electricity did they provide? 6v at a
>>>>> few amps?
>>>> Check out early radio batteries. That's what cars first used.
>>>>
>>>> George Patterson
>>>> The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.
>>> That will take some reearch. Why do you need the info? I might have
>>> to charge if it gets too deep.
>>>
>>> Also, the battery will not be putting out a full 6 volt when loaded
>>> with starting an engine. Watch your lights dim when the starter is
>>> cranking.

>>
>> Its a bit embarrassing. We're know are writing a screenplay; and we're
>> wondering what kind of power a old battery circa 1920 or so can produce.
>> Its a major part of the plot.
>>

> Perhaps a better direction - after reading your reply as well - would be
> to involve Nicola Tesla - the inventor of alternating current and the
> electrical generator. You could look up the tesla coil too. That is in the
> same timespan. Plenty of voltage and current that way.



I'll put that on the wall, but I think it will get shot down pretty
quickly. Part of the problem is not to interfere with people anymore
than they have to. The main problem is getting the thing into space.
Its not my department, but the crazy FTL drive can only be fired in
space. So once in orbit, power generation isn't an issue.

I think the Italy idea is a better one actually, we won't have to use as
many vehicles thanks to Europe not being as industrialized as the US pre
WW2 at the tail end of the depression.
  #16  
Old December 20th 08, 10:21 PM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Stude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Antique Car Batteries?

On Dec 19, 9:31*pm, Heather & Joe Way > wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:02:45 -0500, Justin
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >Heather & Joe Way wrote:
> >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:20:22 -0500, Justin
> >> > wrote:

>
> >>> He, nice!
> >>> But we're not killing anyone. *Bascially the story involves hooking up
> >>> two or three modern laptops with car/airline adapters to antique batteries....
> >> ==========================
> >> No problem. Two 6 volt car batteries in series, even car batteries of
> >> that era, would run a laptop for days.

>
> >> You might toss in a couple of battery recharge events to keep it
> >> believable and realistic, but the power part is a slam dunk.

>
> >> Joe

>
> >How would one recharge a battery back then? *I know I keep one of those
> >chargers in my trunk, is there a 20's equivalent?

>
> =================================
> Yes indeed. I've seen them at swap meets, but it's been a long time.
>
> I believe period chargers used selenium rectifiers. Some early
> chargers included a light bulb in series as a current control.
>
> Sorry I can't help with more detail, but someone else will no doubt
> step in.
>
> Joe
> --
> Heather & Joe Way
> Sierra Specialty Automotive
> Brake cylinders sleeved with brass
> Gus Wilson Storieshttp://www.brakecylinder.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Brits used battery-powered radios at home well into the fifties and
got them re-charged at the local Chemist (drugstore to Yanks.) The
same may have existed in the US.
  #17  
Old December 20th 08, 11:02 PM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Stude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Antique Car Batteries?

On Dec 20, 1:21*pm, Stude > wrote:
> On Dec 19, 9:31*pm, Heather & Joe Way > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:02:45 -0500, Justin

>
> > > wrote:
> > >Heather & Joe Way wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:20:22 -0500, Justin
> > >> > wrote:

>
> > >>> He, nice!
> > >>> But we're not killing anyone. *Bascially the story involves hooking up
> > >>> two or three modern laptops with car/airline adapters to antique batteries....
> > >> ==========================
> > >> No problem. Two 6 volt car batteries in series, even car batteries of
> > >> that era, would run a laptop for days.

>
> > >> You might toss in a couple of battery recharge events to keep it
> > >> believable and realistic, but the power part is a slam dunk.

>
> > >> Joe

>
> > >How would one recharge a battery back then? *I know I keep one of those
> > >chargers in my trunk, is there a 20's equivalent?

>
> > =================================
> > Yes indeed. I've seen them at swap meets, but it's been a long time.

>
> > I believe period chargers used selenium rectifiers. Some early
> > chargers included a light bulb in series as a current control.

>
> > Sorry I can't help with more detail, but someone else will no doubt
> > step in.

>
> > Joe
> > --
> > Heather & Joe Way
> > Sierra Specialty Automotive
> > Brake cylinders sleeved with brass
> > Gus Wilson Storieshttp://www.brakecylinder.com-Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> Brits used battery-powered radios at home well into the fifties and
> got them re-charged at the local Chemist (drugstore to Yanks.) The
> same may have existed in the US.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


BTW,many area of the US (urban) had DC power in the homes. In the
"Back Bay" section of Boston,
this carried into the 1950s.
If your travellers knew this they might want to bring inverters,
transformers, and rectifers
  #18  
Old December 21st 08, 05:36 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
George Patterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Antique Car Batteries?

Justin wrote:

> I'm thinking kerosene of th etime wasn't as clean since it won't be
> burned in a sophisticated jet.


Sophisticated jets don't use kerosene. Civilian jets use a fuel called jet-A,
which is very similar to diesel, which is essentially the same thing as heating
oil. You can run a modern jet on diesel or heating oil, but you can't run a
diesel engine on jet-A for long. The big advantage of jet-A is that it's less
flammable than other fuels, which makes it safer. Military jets run on something
called JP-6, which is even safer than jet-A. Early jets, however, ran on
low-test gasoline, and military jets in the 50s ran on kerosene, so it's
possible that you could run a modern jet engine on either.

In any case, the quality of kerosene back then would be much better than
anything this spaceship crew could produce on their own. Oil cracking plants
tend to be large, expensive, and complicated.

> What about alcohol? Perhaps a variant of the XCOR type rocket would be
> a better plot device. They have one that runs on kerosene and one that
> one that runs on alchy.


Alcohol is easily made, of course, but I think you would need some sort of
oxidant. Liquid oxygen would be beyond the technology of the time. Hydrogen
peroxide was used in some early rockets. You also have to figure on the fact
that prohibition started in 1920, so your crew runs the risk of imprisonment if
they try to set up a still.

> All laptoppower supplies can take 100/250v at 50/60Hz - since laptops
> are designed to travel. I have a laptop from 1995 in my closet, even
> that can take dual voltages.


And what voltages were common in Italy in the '20s?

>> That's definitely not least. They'd better find someone very rich who
>> feels generous (unless they just happen to have a supply of antique
>> money on board).


> Local clubs have been helpful in the past, they do stuff for the local
> colleges all the time.


You miss my point. Your spacefarers are going to need money to buy all of this
stuff back in 1920. VISA ain't gonna cut it. That money will have to be
something like gold or silver certificates printed back then. Having them find a
wealthy benefactor will probably have to be part of the plot. Unless they can
sell something. Maybe make it a cargo ship that's carrying a lot of something
that was expensive in 1920?

George Patterson
The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.
  #19  
Old December 22nd 08, 05:43 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
George Patterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default Antique Car Batteries?

Justin wrote:

> The main problem is getting the thing into space.
> Its not my department, but the crazy FTL drive can only be fired in
> space. So once in orbit, power generation isn't an issue.


Well, if you have to get it into orbit, you have to use rockets or some sort of
drive we don't have yet. Depending on the design, jets max out between 50,000'
and 70,000'. On the plus side, using rockets gives you some versatility. A
liquid fueled rocket needs two substances; the one that burns and an oxidizer.
You can elect to have your spaceship be short of either one.

> I think the Italy idea is a better one actually, we won't have to use as
> many vehicles thanks to Europe not being as industrialized as the US pre
> WW2 at the tail end of the depression.


I take it the time frame is still up in the air? A few posts back, you were
talking about 1920. The tail end of the depression was the late '30s. Frankly, I
think it would be a poor idea to place this in Italy after about 1924. Mussolini
was beginning to be a real power by that time, and it would be difficult for
your spaceship crew to find the solitude they would need in a fascist State.

On the other hand, if you think that Europe was less industrialized than the
U.S. during the '20s and '30s, you might want to hit the History department of
your local library.

George Patterson
The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.
  #20  
Old December 23rd 08, 08:54 AM posted to rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique
Stude
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Antique Car Batteries?

On Dec 20, 8:36*pm, George Patterson > wrote:
> Justin wrote:


> And what voltages were common in Italy in the '20s?


You should see the matrix of polarity/voltages/frequencies in 1970s
Italy!
 




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