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Miata's and Valve???



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 23rd 11, 05:41 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Ringo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Miata's and Valve???



"Ringo" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Christopher Muto" > wrote in message
> t...
>> On 7/22/2011 2:22 PM, Ringo wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "XS11E" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Ringo" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> but true, but now sort of a related question due
>>>>> around the same 60,000 miles. I also noted in the scheduled
>>>>> maintenance list that it says to change the timing belt at 60K,
>>>>> which I have always been aware of, having owned several Japanese 4
>>>>> bangers. BUT there is a couple of footnotes #s 2 &3 that says if
>>>>> initially sold in several states, including mine, California, to
>>>>> change it at 105,000 instead. My question, in those few states,
>>>>> did Mazda use a heavier duty type belt???
>>>>
>>>> No, California law required Mazda to make that change, it's the same
>>>> belt for all. General consensus here seems to be that 100,000 miles is
>>>> a safe figure to use.
>>>>
>>>> NOTE: The Miata is a non-interference engine so if the belt breaks you
>>>> will NOT damage the engine.
>>>>
>>>> Next note: Change belt AND idler pulleys, cam shaft seals, crank seal
>>>> and water pump since you're already in there and almost all of the
>>>> labor is already done. It costs more but the peace of mind is worth
>>>> it!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
>>>> The Usenet Improvement Project:
>>>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>
>>> Thanks for that advice. I knew about the water pump, but not all the
>>> rest. I am C&P'g that to myself in an email, for future reference. But
>>> even though it is a non-interference engine, I will play it safe when
>>> the time comes and do it right at or near 60K. It would be just my luck
>>> to crap out on the way to or returning from Pismo Beach a 4.5 hr. drive.
>>> At my amount of Miata driving, mileage collecting, I'm safe for around
>>> another 10 yrs>>LOL.

>>
>> i think you are safe with holding off on the timing belt. this has been
>> discussed at length and you can search the web or miata.net to find any
>> number of discussions on the topic. for example i picked up my 95 miata
>> in 2005 with 105k on it from someone that had it since 30k and who never
>> replaced the timing belt. it was confirmed with the dealer maintenance
>> history that it had never been done. of course i had it done right away
>> but i would not of done it at 60k. probably 90k would have fit my
>> conform level. worse case I would have been looking at a little
>> inconvenience and tow should it go out prematurely, but i don't think
>> anyone ever reported the original belt snapping on them under 100k. but
>> with your car now 11 years old i would be looking at replacing the
>> complete set of hoses on the engine (including the often overlooked small
>> houses) as preventative maintenance as a much higher priority.
>> overheating can cause inconvenience as well as serious damage to the
>> engine, a snapped timing belt only causes inconvenience.
>> just my 2¢.

>
> Yes 11 yrs old, but only 36, 700 miles on it, and well maintained. Oil
> changed every year whether it has gone 3,000 miles or not. Only made about
> 1,600 this last year. Always had the coolant changed/flushed. Just had
> that done on Thursday, the complete flush with the extended 5 yr/100,000
> mile coolant. Hoses are like new. Car is ALWAYS garaged when home, not on
> a trip, say to the beach. I am told with todays hoses (Rubber/material
> used) not to worry about the period of time. Could go well over 100,000
> miles


P.S. My Wife's Chevy 97 Monte Carlo is 14 yrs. old this month, and the hoses
all look excellent, also getting maintained, cooling system flushes ON TIME,
etc. My 94 Chevy S10 PU, had its' hoses replaced at the 14 yr. mark, simply
because the head gasket got repaired. So since I was already paying to have
that done, having the hoses replaced wasn't much of a stretch. A good friend
of mine who has been working on cars since he was 12, now like 73 or there
abouts, tells me not to worry about them, that they are way different (Much
better quality material/rubber) than the hoses back in olden times. I
believe his Chevy full size PU is an 89, and still on the original hoses.
This guy can rebuild anything to do with ANY car, motor transmission,
anything.

Ads
  #12  
Old July 23rd 11, 08:38 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Christopher Muto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 306
Default Miata's and Valve???

On 7/23/2011 12:41 AM, Ringo wrote:
> is 14 yrs. old this month, and the hoses all look excellent, also
> getting maintained, cooling system flushes ON TIME, etc. My 94 Chevy S10
> PU, had its' hoses replaced at the 14 yr. mark, simply because the head
> gasket got repaired. So since I was already paying to have that done,
> having the hoses replaced wasn't much of a stretch. A good friend of
> mine who has been working on cars since he was 12, now like 73 or there
> abouts, tells me not to worry about them, that they are way different
> (Much better quality material/rubber) than the hoses back in olden
> times. I believe his Chevy full size PU is an 89, and still on the
> original hoses.


modern days hoses are certainly better than those of yesteryear but they
still fail. i had one of the heater hoses blow out with a glorious
cloud of steam emerging from the engine compartment while stuck in
bumper to bumper traffic. fortunately i got through it by turning the
heater on full blast and kept an eye on the temperature gauge and made
it to a garage without any damage. this was in november 2005 and my car
is a 95 (probably acutally made/sold in 94 - making it the same age as
your car). when you get the timing belt replaced everybody is quick to
replace the upper and lower radiator hoses since they come off as part
of the timing belt installation, but they don't suggest the two firewall
heater hoses or the other four small hoses on the engine. funny how you
are comfortable running the car with 11 year old coolant hoses but
uncomfortable about letting the timing belt get over 60k before
replacing it... and that i feel completely differently about it. to
each his/her own. regards,
  #13  
Old July 23rd 11, 11:37 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Frank Berger[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Miata's and Valve???

Ringo wrote:
> "XS11E" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Ringo" > wrote:
>>
>>> but true, but now sort of a related question due
>>> around the same 60,000 miles. I also noted in the scheduled
>>> maintenance list that it says to change the timing belt at 60K,
>>> which I have always been aware of, having owned several Japanese 4
>>> bangers. BUT there is a couple of footnotes #s 2 &3 that says if
>>> initially sold in several states, including mine, California, to
>>> change it at 105,000 instead. My question, in those few states,
>>> did Mazda use a heavier duty type belt???

>>
>> No, California law required Mazda to make that change, it's the same
>> belt for all. General consensus here seems to be that 100,000 miles
>> is a safe figure to use.
>>
>> NOTE: The Miata is a non-interference engine so if the belt breaks
>> you will NOT damage the engine.
>>
>> Next note: Change belt AND idler pulleys, cam shaft seals, crank seal
>> and water pump since you're already in there and almost all of the
>> labor is already done. It costs more but the peace of mind is worth
>> it!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
>> The Usenet Improvement Project:
>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

>
> Thanks for that advice. I knew about the water pump,


Strangely enough my local Mazda dealer, upon changing the timing belt at
60K, recommended just checking the water pump for leaks and not just
changing in prophylactically. Though this was contrary to all the advice in
RMCR, I listened to him and didn't change the pump because it seemed OK.
Two weeks later the pump went out.

  #14  
Old July 24th 11, 06:35 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Ringo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Miata's and Valve???



"Frank Berger" > wrote in message
...
> Ringo wrote:
>> "XS11E" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Ringo" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> but true, but now sort of a related question due
>>>> around the same 60,000 miles. I also noted in the scheduled
>>>> maintenance list that it says to change the timing belt at 60K,
>>>> which I have always been aware of, having owned several Japanese 4
>>>> bangers. BUT there is a couple of footnotes #s 2 &3 that says if
>>>> initially sold in several states, including mine, California, to
>>>> change it at 105,000 instead. My question, in those few states,
>>>> did Mazda use a heavier duty type belt???
>>>
>>> No, California law required Mazda to make that change, it's the same
>>> belt for all. General consensus here seems to be that 100,000 miles
>>> is a safe figure to use.
>>>
>>> NOTE: The Miata is a non-interference engine so if the belt breaks
>>> you will NOT damage the engine.
>>>
>>> Next note: Change belt AND idler pulleys, cam shaft seals, crank seal
>>> and water pump since you're already in there and almost all of the
>>> labor is already done. It costs more but the peace of mind is worth
>>> it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
>>> The Usenet Improvement Project:
>>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

>>
>> Thanks for that advice. I knew about the water pump,

>
> Strangely enough my local Mazda dealer, upon changing the timing belt at
> 60K, recommended just checking the water pump for leaks and not just
> changing in prophylactically. Though this was contrary to all the advice
> in RMCR, I listened to him and didn't change the pump because it seemed
> OK. Two weeks later the pump went out.



>For sure, WHENEVER I have the timing belt changed, many years from now just
>being at 36,700, I will definitely also have the water pump changed also.
>Was over at our local, "Oil Can Henry's, " again today, where I get the
>oil/filter done, and had one of those complete coolant flushes with the
>extended life stuff this last Thursday, and the guy says my hoses look
>great, probably because I make sure it has always been services, coolant
>always changed out on time with the GOOD STUFF, etc. etc.


Now I am considering NEXT July having the 97 Monte Carlo's hoses done,
radiators, heaters, as well as this one that is about the diameter of my
little finger, and one other short one. But I dread what that sucker will
cost me. Shining a flashlight behind that 3.1 liter V6, there is hardly any
space to get at those heater hoses/clamps. I have no idea how those guys
will do that. Not to mention one of the clamps on that tiny hose. My good
car expert guy insists that I not worry about it, even at 14 yrs. old, with
only less than 52,000. He says his 89 Chevy PU was over 100,000 miles. And
he only did it because the heads needed to be worked on. Otherwise he
wouldn't have done it yet. And when he took the hoses off (He does ALL his
own stuff), can even rebuild an automatic tranny etc, he said the hoses were
in great shape.

As far as my Miata, those seriously look near new. But I only see the
radiator hoses and the two heater hoses that go directly from the firewall
onto the engine block. I don't notice any other small ones. Will take a much
better look, when the time comes.

Both the 97 Monte Carlo and 2000 Miata are always garaged, rear round,
except of course when being used :-). Now my 94 S10 PU is parked out front,
and like I said earlier, that one had all its' hoses done with the head
gasket job, a good reason to have it done at that time, but was 14 yrs. old
at that time, but they all also looked great.



  #15  
Old July 24th 11, 07:13 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
charlie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default Miata's and Valve???

On 7/24/2011 1:35 AM, Ringo wrote:
>
>
> "Frank Berger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ringo wrote:
>>> "XS11E" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Ringo" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> but true, but now sort of a related question due
>>>>> around the same 60,000 miles. I also noted in the scheduled
>>>>> maintenance list that it says to change the timing belt at 60K,
>>>>> which I have always been aware of, having owned several Japanese 4
>>>>> bangers. BUT there is a couple of footnotes #s 2 &3 that says if
>>>>> initially sold in several states, including mine, California, to
>>>>> change it at 105,000 instead. My question, in those few states,
>>>>> did Mazda use a heavier duty type belt???
>>>>
>>>> No, California law required Mazda to make that change, it's the same
>>>> belt for all. General consensus here seems to be that 100,000 miles
>>>> is a safe figure to use.
>>>>
>>>> NOTE: The Miata is a non-interference engine so if the belt breaks
>>>> you will NOT damage the engine.
>>>>
>>>> Next note: Change belt AND idler pulleys, cam shaft seals, crank seal
>>>> and water pump since you're already in there and almost all of the
>>>> labor is already done. It costs more but the peace of mind is worth
>>>> it!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
>>>> The Usenet Improvement Project:
>>>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>
>>> Thanks for that advice. I knew about the water pump,

>>
>> Strangely enough my local Mazda dealer, upon changing the timing belt
>> at 60K, recommended just checking the water pump for leaks and not
>> just changing in prophylactically. Though this was contrary to all the
>> advice in RMCR, I listened to him and didn't change the pump because
>> it seemed OK. Two weeks later the pump went out.

>
>
>> For sure, WHENEVER I have the timing belt changed, many years from now
>> just being at 36,700, I will definitely also have the water pump
>> changed also. Was over at our local, "Oil Can Henry's, " again today,
>> where I get the oil/filter done, and had one of those complete coolant
>> flushes with the extended life stuff this last Thursday, and the guy
>> says my hoses look great, probably because I make sure it has always
>> been services, coolant always changed out on time with the GOOD STUFF,
>> etc. etc.

>
> Now I am considering NEXT July having the 97 Monte Carlo's hoses done,
> radiators, heaters, as well as this one that is about the diameter of my
> little finger, and one other short one. But I dread what that sucker
> will cost me. Shining a flashlight behind that 3.1 liter V6, there is
> hardly any space to get at those heater hoses/clamps. I have no idea how
> those guys will do that. Not to mention one of the clamps on that tiny
> hose. My good car expert guy insists that I not worry about it, even at
> 14 yrs. old, with only less than 52,000. He says his 89 Chevy PU was
> over 100,000 miles. And he only did it because the heads needed to be
> worked on. Otherwise he wouldn't have done it yet. And when he took the
> hoses off (He does ALL his own stuff), can even rebuild an automatic
> tranny etc, he said the hoses were in great shape.
>
> As far as my Miata, those seriously look near new. But I only see the
> radiator hoses and the two heater hoses that go directly from the
> firewall onto the engine block. I don't notice any other small ones.
> Will take a much better look, when the time comes.
>
> Both the 97 Monte Carlo and 2000 Miata are always garaged, rear round,
> except of course when being used :-). Now my 94 S10 PU is parked out
> front, and like I said earlier, that one had all its' hoses done with
> the head gasket job, a good reason to have it done at that time, but was
> 14 yrs. old at that time, but they all also looked great.
>
>
>

We changed the timing belt on my 99 at about 60k, since the engine is
turbo'd. The only visible wear was a slight rounding of the teeth on the
belt. The water pump and idlers were also changed. One idler's bearings
felt like it was getting time to change, the other was OK.
As to hoses - - at least change the heater hoses and upper and lower
hoses when things are apart. The hoses to the oil filter mount should
also be changed when you change the other hoses.

As to valve clearance. Usually, just measuring it will tell you that
things are OK. If not, things can get messy, since many of the dealers
don't bother to keep the shims in stock. Some have had success in
switching shims around.

Finally - - Replacing the timing belt involves the possibility of
creating a problem on some NB's. The original torque values for the
crank bolt and the procedure in the manuals was not always adequate to
prevent eventual pulley and damper wobble. You will need a new "key" and
Locktite. Mazda issued a service note about the problem some time ago.
I'd likely wait and change the belt at about 80k instead of 60k(miles).


  #16  
Old July 24th 11, 04:21 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Ringo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Miata's and Valve???



"charlie" > wrote in message
om...
> On 7/24/2011 1:35 AM, Ringo wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Frank Berger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Ringo wrote:
>>>> "XS11E" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Ringo" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> but true, but now sort of a related question due
>>>>>> around the same 60,000 miles. I also noted in the scheduled
>>>>>> maintenance list that it says to change the timing belt at 60K,
>>>>>> which I have always been aware of, having owned several Japanese 4
>>>>>> bangers. BUT there is a couple of footnotes #s 2 &3 that says if
>>>>>> initially sold in several states, including mine, California, to
>>>>>> change it at 105,000 instead. My question, in those few states,
>>>>>> did Mazda use a heavier duty type belt???
>>>>>
>>>>> No, California law required Mazda to make that change, it's the same
>>>>> belt for all. General consensus here seems to be that 100,000 miles
>>>>> is a safe figure to use.
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTE: The Miata is a non-interference engine so if the belt breaks
>>>>> you will NOT damage the engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next note: Change belt AND idler pulleys, cam shaft seals, crank seal
>>>>> and water pump since you're already in there and almost all of the
>>>>> labor is already done. It costs more but the peace of mind is worth
>>>>> it!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
>>>>> The Usenet Improvement Project:
>>>>> http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that advice. I knew about the water pump,
>>>
>>> Strangely enough my local Mazda dealer, upon changing the timing belt
>>> at 60K, recommended just checking the water pump for leaks and not
>>> just changing in prophylactically. Though this was contrary to all the
>>> advice in RMCR, I listened to him and didn't change the pump because
>>> it seemed OK. Two weeks later the pump went out.

>>
>>
>>> For sure, WHENEVER I have the timing belt changed, many years from now
>>> just being at 36,700, I will definitely also have the water pump
>>> changed also. Was over at our local, "Oil Can Henry's, " again today,
>>> where I get the oil/filter done, and had one of those complete coolant
>>> flushes with the extended life stuff this last Thursday, and the guy
>>> says my hoses look great, probably because I make sure it has always
>>> been services, coolant always changed out on time with the GOOD STUFF,
>>> etc. etc.

>>
>> Now I am considering NEXT July having the 97 Monte Carlo's hoses done,
>> radiators, heaters, as well as this one that is about the diameter of my
>> little finger, and one other short one. But I dread what that sucker
>> will cost me. Shining a flashlight behind that 3.1 liter V6, there is
>> hardly any space to get at those heater hoses/clamps. I have no idea how
>> those guys will do that. Not to mention one of the clamps on that tiny
>> hose. My good car expert guy insists that I not worry about it, even at
>> 14 yrs. old, with only less than 52,000. He says his 89 Chevy PU was
>> over 100,000 miles. And he only did it because the heads needed to be
>> worked on. Otherwise he wouldn't have done it yet. And when he took the
>> hoses off (He does ALL his own stuff), can even rebuild an automatic
>> tranny etc, he said the hoses were in great shape.
>>
>> As far as my Miata, those seriously look near new. But I only see the
>> radiator hoses and the two heater hoses that go directly from the
>> firewall onto the engine block. I don't notice any other small ones.
>> Will take a much better look, when the time comes.
>>
>> Both the 97 Monte Carlo and 2000 Miata are always garaged, rear round,
>> except of course when being used :-). Now my 94 S10 PU is parked out
>> front, and like I said earlier, that one had all its' hoses done with
>> the head gasket job, a good reason to have it done at that time, but was
>> 14 yrs. old at that time, but they all also looked great.
>>
>>
>>

> We changed the timing belt on my 99 at about 60k, since the engine is
> turbo'd. The only visible wear was a slight rounding of the teeth on the
> belt. The water pump and idlers were also changed. One idler's bearings
> felt like it was getting time to change, the other was OK.
> As to hoses - - at least change the heater hoses and upper and lower hoses
> when things are apart. The hoses to the oil filter mount should also be
> changed when you change the other hoses.
>
> As to valve clearance. Usually, just measuring it will tell you that
> things are OK. If not, things can get messy, since many of the dealers
> don't bother to keep the shims in stock. Some have had success in
> switching shims around.
>
> Finally - - Replacing the timing belt involves the possibility of creating
> a problem on some NB's. The original torque values for the crank bolt and
> the procedure in the manuals was not always adequate to prevent eventual
> pulley and damper wobble. You will need a new "key" and Locktite. Mazda
> issued a service note about the problem some time ago. I'd likely wait and
> change the belt at about 80k instead of 60k(miles).
>
>


Charlie>>I definitely can't/won't wait till the time belt change to get the
radiator/heater hoses done. At the amount of mileage that I put on the
Miata, it will take an estimated ten more yrs. just to hit 60,000. If I wait
till 90K, it could be someone else's problem, based on the fact that my Dad
gave up driving at 80>>LOL. Also, last night B4 going to bed, I took a
flashlight and found those two other coolant (Small diameter) hoses that was
mentioned in this thread, coming off near what I assume is the thermostat
housing area. What they are for I have no idea. But they also look great.
You can see the dimpled type material/rubber used these days, obviously some
sort of new space age rubber composite material.

Never knew about hoses to the oil mount. Will check that out next time I
have to hood open for whatever reason. Also forget going to a DEALER. I
won't be ripped off by one. I certainly hope that a NON dealer shop is
knowledgeable enough to, "GET ER DONE," as Larry the Cable Guy would say
:-). I go to a nearby (Within walking) distance shop, that is recommended
on, "Click & Clack's" (The car talk guys), "Mechanic Files,"//cartalk.com,
where you can also catch their very informative/great/funny radio program
(Listen now is FREE).

Also a dealer footnote, we have no Mazda dealer within reasonable distance.
The dealer I bought mine from in the next town up the freeway stopped being
a Mazda dealer (Must have been the economy). And the next town DOWN the
freeway has one, but is between 15>20 miles away. Not that convenient.

  #17  
Old July 24th 11, 05:36 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 738
Default Miata's and Valve???

charlie > wrote:

> As to valve clearance. Usually, just measuring it will tell you
> that things are OK. If not, things can get messy, since many of
> the dealers don't bother to keep the shims in stock. Some have had
> success in switching shims around.


I found a proceedure on-line years back for measuring valve clearances,
recording them on a chart, then pulling shims and listing them on a
chart, then figuring which shim needed to go with which valve.

Doing this on Kawasaki and Yamaha motorcycle engines resulted in being
able to get everything right with the purchase of only one shim! All
the other clearances were corrected by swapping.

It's well worth the extra time.

NOTE: It helps to have a good micrometer, sometimes the markings on a
shim are very hard to read...


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
 




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