Additonal brake question Jim W!

Hello Jim and anyone else who might have answer.

Fist off, sorry to post this as a new thread, but I wanted to make
sure folks saw it.

I went ahead and changed the shoes - so far the left ones (Boy,
there's hardly any wear compared to the new shoes I'm putting on -
just the slight gap where the one rivet is lose). I could have gone
200,000 on these original brakes.

One possibility dumb question though. When I reinstall the brake
retractor springs, the only way I can figure to get them back on is
bringing them both around UNDER the pin. The right side has them BOTH
hooking over the top of the pin (that way from the factory). Oddly,
The Haynes book and Ford shop manual - both of which happen to show
the left side - have the rear pin hooking around from the bottom and
the front one hooking over the top. There doesn't seem any way to
orient that front spring to get it anchored into the hole on one side
and hooking it over the top of the pin. I'm using a new hardware kit,
but it seems to be the same as what I took off the vehicle. I just
don't remember how the springsg were oriented before I took them off.

So is it correct the way I have it? Does it matter? Or am I doing
somthing wrong?

Incidentally, the parts store guy said I didn't need the spring
removal/replacement tool (the forceps-looking things). Big mistake.
Getting the springs off and on is torture using needle-nose Vice
Grips.

Also, I just discovered that when the dealer removed the drum to
inspect the vehicle last year, the technician (I use the term loosely)
left the little screw-on washers off the studs. So now I have three of
them on the right and none of the left. I hate when they do sloppy
work!!!!

Anyway, bruised knuckles and hands and a slightlys ore back later,
it's going pretty well.

Thanks for your help!!!

Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

I think someone put the springs back on the wrong side at some point
or upside down. I sent you an email with some pages from the manual
showing the rear brakes. One spring goes over and the other goes
under according to the pictures.



On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 18:08:31 -0700 (PDT), TonyG
> wrote:

>Hello Jim and anyone else who might have answer.
>
>Fist off, sorry to post this as a new thread, but I wanted to make
>sure folks saw it.
>
>I went ahead and changed the shoes - so far the left ones (Boy,
>there's hardly any wear compared to the new shoes I'm putting on -
>just the slight gap where the one rivet is lose). I could have gone
>200,000 on these original brakes.
>
>One possibility dumb question though. When I reinstall the brake
>retractor springs, the only way I can figure to get them back on is
>bringing them both around UNDER the pin. The right side has them BOTH
>hooking over the top of the pin (that way from the factory). Oddly,
>The Haynes book and Ford shop manual - both of which happen to show
>the left side - have the rear pin hooking around from the bottom and
>the front one hooking over the top. There doesn't seem any way to
>orient that front spring to get it anchored into the hole on one side
>and hooking it over the top of the pin. I'm using a new hardware kit,
>but it seems to be the same as what I took off the vehicle. I just
>don't remember how the springsg were oriented before I took them off.
>
>So is it correct the way I have it? Does it matter? Or am I doing
>somthing wrong?
>
>Incidentally, the parts store guy said I didn't need the spring
>removal/replacement tool (the forceps-looking things). Big mistake.
>Getting the springs off and on is torture using needle-nose Vice
>Grips.
>
>Also, I just discovered that when the dealer removed the drum to
>inspect the vehicle last year, the technician (I use the term loosely)
>left the little screw-on washers off the studs. So now I have three of
>them on the right and none of the left. I hate when they do sloppy
>work!!!!
>
>Anyway, bruised knuckles and hands and a slightlys ore back later,
>it's going pretty well.
>
>Thanks for your help!!!
>
>Regards,
>Anthony Giorgianni

Thanks for the email. That's how the left side looks in my books as
well. But there's is no way to position the spring to get it that way.
I'll try again. I don't remember how they were on the left side when I
took them off, but I know for sure that the right side had them both
over the top!!! I bought the truck new and never changed the brakes. I
swear O) Mine hads a manual tranny and I plan my stops, so I hardlly
ever use the brakes. except for the emergency brake/.

I did make an error on the left side though. I didn't realize the
shoes are two different sizes, and I put the large one in the front
instead of the rear. I realized it this mornimg when taking apart the
right side.So I have to take it apart again. Anyway, I'm becoming an
expert at this. The whole thing is a giant fight with springs!!!

The Haynes book has two photos wrong incidentally, including one
showing them using the shoe spring hold down tool as the retaining
spring remover/replacer. Really! They actually show a photo of them
putting the tool on the retaining spring pin, which really confused
me.

Thanks again.

Back down to the garage now. Maybe a spring will kill me and put me
out of my misery!!!

Regards.
Anthony Giorgianni



On Oct 2, 1:35*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> I think someone put the springs back on the wrong side at some point
> or upside down. *I sent you an email with some pages from the manual
> showing the rear brakes. *One spring goes over and the other goes
> under according to the pictures.
>

"TonyG" > wrote in message
...
Thanks for the email. That's how the left side looks in my books as
well. But there's is no way to position the spring to get it that way.
I'll try again. I don't remember how they were on the left side when I
took them off, but I know for sure that the right side had them both
over the top!!! I bought the truck new and never changed the brakes. I
swear O) Mine hads a manual tranny and I plan my stops, so I hardlly
ever use the brakes. except for the emergency brake/.

I did make an error on the left side though. I didn't realize the
shoes are two different sizes, and I put the large one in the front
instead of the rear. I realized it this mornimg when taking apart the
right side.So I have to take it apart again. Anyway, I'm becoming an
expert at this. The whole thing is a giant fight with springs!!!

The Haynes book has two photos wrong incidentally, including one
showing them using the shoe spring hold down tool as the retaining
spring remover/replacer. Really! They actually show a photo of them
putting the tool on the retaining spring pin, which really confused
me.

Thanks again.

Back down to the garage now. Maybe a spring will kill me and put me
out of my misery!!!

Regards.
Anthony Giorgianni

Maybe you got your shoes on upsidedown or something. Like Ashton said one
spring goes under and the other goes over. I connect the under spring
before assembly (is there another way?). Sometimes it's not possible to get
the over spring on there using pliers so I use a small, long blade
screwdriver, hook the spring around it, stick it in the hole it's supposed
to go in, put a little oil on the screwdriver shaft so it won't get stuck,
pry it into position and then use a bigger blade screwdriver to slide it
down the other screwdriver into place.

If your brake linings have seperated I'd look into warranty replacement if
you know when/where they were purchased. These days you usually don't even
need a receipt cause it's all on computers. Also, it doesn't seem to be
much of a problem on Explorers but on some Fords you need to put some
caliper grease on the spots where the shoes touch the backing or they might
stick.

I've never seen a mistake like what you mentioned in a Hayne's manual.
Which edition do you have? I'd like to see that. Sometimes they leave
stuff out but I've always found their information to be accurate.



On Oct 2, 1:35 am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> I think someone put the springs back on the wrong side at some point
> or upside down. I sent you an email with some pages from the manual
> showing the rear brakes. One spring goes over and the other goes
> under according to the pictures.
>

On Oct 3, 3:01*pm, "Ulysses" > wrote:
Thanks for that.

Forget warranty. Those shoes are 17 years old. The first ones on my
92.

There's actually one error (wrong tool) and one misleading photo in
the Haynes book. Unless I really don't udnerstand something. But they
show the head of the holddown spring removal tool on top of the pin
that the retractor springs attach too. It's almost like someone got
the name hold down spring removal tool confused with retractor spring
removal tool.

I just can't figure out the over and under thing on the left side. The
retracting springs are exactly the same on both sides. A kind of
knuckle that sticks out the side to go in the hole and there's a hook
to go around the pin. For the right side, if you stick the knuckle in
the hole, the hook is oriented to go over the pin. If you turn it
around for the left side, so the knuckle goes in the hole, the hook
goes the other way and wraps around the bottom. The only way to get
the hook to wrap around the top on the left is to aim the knuckle away
from the car, and then there's nothing to stick in the hole to hold
it.

The right side definity had them going the same way from the factory.
I'm thinking maybe some kits have two different srpings, a right and
left. But everything seems exactly like what came. So I don't know.
I'm about to put the drums back on, and we'll see. I hate to think
it's wrong, but everything looks right, except for both going under
the bottom of the pin on the left and both going voer on the right.

I'll try to take two photos and put them on my Web site and post back
with the address.

Thanks.

Anthony Giorgianni
>
> Maybe you got your shoes on upsidedown or something. *Like Ashton said one
> spring goes under and the other goes over. *I connect the under spring
> before assembly (is there another way?). *Sometimes it's not possible to get
> the over spring on there using pliers so I use a small, long blade
> screwdriver, hook the spring around it, stick it in the hole it's supposed
> to go in, put a little oil on the screwdriver shaft so it won't get stuck,
> pry it into position and then use a bigger blade screwdriver to slide it
> down the other screwdriver into place.
>
> If your brake linings have seperated I'd look into warranty replacement if
> you know when/where they were purchased. *These days you usually don't even
> need a receipt cause it's all on computers. *Also, it doesn't seem to be
> much of a problem on Explorers but on some Fords you need to put some
> caliper grease on the spots where the shoes touch the backing or they might
> stick.
>
> I've never seen a mistake like what you mentioned in a Hayne's manual.
> Which edition do you have? *I'd like to see that. *Sometimes they leave
> stuff out but I've always found their information to be accurate.
>
> On Oct 2, 1:35 am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I think someone put the springs back on the wrong side at some point
> > or upside down. I sent you an email with some pages from the manual
> > showing the rear brakes. One spring goes over and the other goes
> > under according to the pictures.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hello All

Here are the photos of my completed brake work on my 92 showing the
spring
issues. I've also included a photo of the Haynes page that I think
shows the wrong tool. I may be wrong.


http://giorgianni.homestead.com/Explorer.html.

Please scroll down toward the bottom of the page. Sorry, I made some
typos in the photos :O)

I haven't put the drums on yet, figuring that you all may spot
something. Hopefully, Jim Warman will peak back in too. I'm sure he's
done tons of these and can tells us right away.

Thanks!

Regards,,
Anthony Giorgianni

On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT), TonyG
> wrote:

>Hello All
>
>Here are the photos of my completed brake work on my 92 showing the
>spring
>issues. I've also included a photo of the Haynes page that I think
>shows the wrong tool. I may be wrong.
>
>
>http://giorgianni.homestead.com/Explorer.html.
>
>Please scroll down toward the bottom of the page. Sorry, I made some
>typos in the photos :O)
>
>I haven't put the drums on yet, figuring that you all may spot
>something. Hopefully, Jim Warman will peak back in too. I'm sure he's
>done tons of these and can tells us right away.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Regards,,
>Anthony Giorgianni

I don't think there's any problem with your springs whether they go
over or under. As long as they don't come off!! As to the spring
removal tool, I think that's what is pictured, I have a similar one.
You are supposed to be able to rotate it so it catches the spring and
lifts it up and off. I didn't have much luck with mine and went back
to just using visegrips and screwdrivers to get them off and on.

Thanks everyone for your help.

The job is done (after five grueling days), and everything seems
fine. Thanks Ashton for your response. It made me feel a little more
secure. So that really IS a tool, huh. Interesting. I wonder what the
whole thing looks like. Yes, ViseGrips did it for me, though I ended
up havin to create a lever with the VGs, tire iron and rear axle
because I couldn't pull one of those spring far enough with only my
wieght.

Anytway, thanks again. I post back if I'm driving along and suddenly
hear lots of spring letting loose :O) I can't beleive how they're held
in with thos eknucle things in the holes. But anyway, seems to work!!

Regards,,
Anthony Giorgianni

For everyone's benefit, please post back to the group

On Oct 4, 1:35*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT), TonyG
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >Hello All
>
> >Here are the photos of my completed brake work on my 92 showing the
> >spring
> >issues. I've also included a photo of the Haynes page that I think
> >shows the wrong tool. I may be wrong.
>
> >http://giorgianni.homestead.com/Explorer.html.
>
> >Please scroll down toward the bottom of the page. Sorry, I made some
> >typos in the photos :O)
>
> >I haven't put the drums on yet, figuring that you all may spot
> >something. Hopefully, Jim Warman will peak back in too. I'm sure he's
> >done tons of these and can tells us right away.
>
> >Thanks!
>
> >Regards,,
> >Anthony Giorgianni
>
> I don't think there's any problem with your springs whether they go
> over or under. *As long as they don't come off!! *As to the spring
> removal tool, I think that's what is pictured, I have a similar one.
> You are supposed to be able to rotate it so it catches the spring and
> lifts it up and off. *I didn't have much luck with mine and went back
> to just using visegrips and screwdrivers to get them off and on.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -