OT UNION BUSTING

UNION BUSTING

Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
BUSTING

Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.

Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
this
crazy thing called "health care.


Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com

On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
> UNION BUSTING
>
> Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
> BUSTING
>
> Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
> Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
> collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
> when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>
> Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
> this
> crazy thing called "health care.
>
> Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com

On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
> UNION BUSTING
>
> Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
> BUSTING
>
> Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
> Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
> collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
> when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>
> Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
> this
> crazy thing called "health care.
>
> Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com

It would make no sense to ask financial industry workers to make
concessions. The financial industries problems flow from bad
investments in the trillions of dollars. Cutting pay and benefits in
the millions or even billions would have no effect. By contrast, ALL
of Detroit's problems have to do with its assembly line workers.
First they have nearly destroyed the market for domestic products with
their crappy workmanship and their crappy attitudes, beginning with
the strikes of the Sixties and continuing at least through the mid
Nineties. Economic meltdown or no economic meltdown, the result of
these decades of crap products is that it is difficult to find anyone
under the age of 50 who will even consider a Detroit product. Second,
Detroit's assembly line workers' pay packages and work rules and
benefits put Detroit at a competitive disadvantage. That competitive
disadvantage is sending the industry to the bottom. Modifications to
the pay packages and work rules and benefits can have an effect on
that competitive disadvantage.

Now do you understand why financial workers have not been asked to
make concessions, while Detroit's assembly line workers must make
concessions or else lose their jobs completely? Moreover, your
argument is not against concessions, it is in favor of spreading the
concession mandate more broadly. Or, if I misunderstand you and your
argument is that Detroit assembly line workers should make no further
concessions, then you better start that job search right now.

180 Out

On Dec 12, 8:47*am, wrote:
> On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
>
> > UNION BUSTING
>
> > Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
> > BUSTING
>
> > Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
> > Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
> > collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
> > when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>
> > Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
> > this
> > crazy thing called "health care.
>
> > Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com
>
> It would make no sense to ask financial industry workers to make
> concessions. *The financial industries problems flow from bad
> investments in the trillions of dollars. *Cutting pay and benefits in
> the millions or even billions would have no effect. *By contrast, ALL
> of Detroit's problems have to do with its assembly line workers.
> First they have nearly destroyed the market for domestic products with
> their crappy workmanship and their crappy attitudes, beginning with
> the strikes of the Sixties and continuing at least through the mid
> Nineties. *Economic meltdown or no economic meltdown, the result of
> these decades of crap products is that it is difficult to find anyone
> under the age of 50 who will even consider a Detroit product. *Second,
> Detroit's assembly line workers' pay packages and work rules and
> benefits put Detroit at a competitive disadvantage. *That competitive
> disadvantage is sending the industry to the bottom. *Modifications to
> the pay packages and work rules and benefits can have an effect on
> that competitive disadvantage.
>
> Now do you understand why financial workers have not been asked to
> make concessions, while Detroit's assembly line workers must make
> concessions or else lose their jobs completely? *Moreover, your
> argument is not against concessions, it is in favor of spreading the
> concession mandate more broadly. *Or, if I misunderstand you and your
> argument is that Detroit assembly line workers should make no further
> concessions, then you better start that job search right now.
>
> 180 Out



I think we all will need to work together and buy made in the U.S.A.

$73 an Hour

That figure — repeated on television and in newspapers as the average
pay of a Big Three autoworker — has become a big symbol in the fight
over what should happen to Detroit. To critics, it is a neat
encapsulation of everything that’s wrong with bloated car companies
and their entitled workers.


To the Big Three’s defenders, meanwhile, the number has become proof
positive that autoworkers are being unfairly blamed for Detroit’s
decline. “We’ve heard this garbage about 73 bucks an hour,” Senator
Bob Casey, a Pennsylvania Democrat, said last week. “It’s a total
lie.
I think some people have perpetrated that deliberately, in a
calculated way, to mislead the American people about what we’re doing
here.”


So what is the reality behind the number? Detroit’s defenders are
right that the number is basically wrong. Big Three workers aren’t
making anything close to $73 an hour (which would translate to about
$150,000 a year).


But the defenders are not right to suggest, as many have, that
Detroit
has solved its wage problem. General Motors, Ford and Chrysler
workers
make significantly more than their counterparts at Toyota, Honda and
Nissan plants in this country. Last year’s concessions by the United
Automobile Workers, which mostly apply to new workers, will not
change
that anytime soon.


And yet the main problem facing Detroit, overwhelmingly, is not the
pay gap. That’s unfortunate because fixing the pay gap would be
fairly
straightforward.


The real problem is that many people don’t want to buy the cars that
Detroit makes. Fixing this problem won’t be nearly so easy.


The success of any bailout is probably going to come down to
Washington’s willingness to acknowledge as much.


Let’s start with the numbers. The $73-an-hour figure comes from the
car companies themselves. As part of their public relations strategy
during labor negotiations, the companies put out various charts and
reports explaining what they paid their workers. Wall Street analysts
have done similar calculations.


The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a
unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend
about
$73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the
combination of three very different categories.


The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people
imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages,
overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The
numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes
$70 or $77.)


The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and
pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up
on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an
hour or so.


Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of
Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little
more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes,
benefits
included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to
Honda’s
or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of
$45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous
benefits.


The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are
essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles
the
companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them
into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current
work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70
an hour.


The crucial point, though, is this $15 isn’t mainly a reflection of
how generous the retiree benefits are. It’s a reflection of how many
retirees there are. The Big Three built up a huge pool of retirees
long before Honda and Toyota opened plants in this country. You’d
never know this by looking at the graphic behind Wolf Blitzer on CNN
last week, contrasting the “$73/hour” pay of Detroit’s workers with
the “up to $48/hour” pay of workers at the Japanese companies.


These retirees make up arguably Detroit’s best case for a bailout.
The
Big Three and the U.A.W. had the bad luck of helping to create the
middle class in a country where individual companies — as opposed to
all of society — must shoulder much of the burden of paying for
retirement.


So here’s a little experiment. Imagine that a Congressional bailout
effectively pays for $10 an hour of the retiree benefits. That’s
roughly the gap between the Big Three’s retiree costs and those of
the
Japanese-owned plants in this country. Imagine, also, that the U.A.W.
agrees to reduce pay and benefits for current workers to $45 an hour
—
the same as at Honda and Toyota.


Do you know how much that would reduce the cost of producing a Big
Three vehicle? Only about $800.


That’s because labor costs, for all the attention they have been
receiving, make up only about 10 percent of the cost of making a
vehicle. An extra $800 per vehicle would certainly help Detroit, but
the Big Three already often sell their cars for about $2,500 less
than
equivalent cars from Japanese companies, analysts at the
International
Motor Vehicle Program say. Even so, many Americans no longer want to
own the cars being made by General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.


My own family’s story isn’t especially unusual. For decades, my
grandparents bought American and only American. In their apartment,
they still have a framed photo of the 1933 Oldsmobile that my
grandfather’s family drove when he was a teenager. In the photo, his
father stands proudly on the car’s running board.


By the 1970s, though, my grandfather became so sick of the problems
with his American cars that he vowed never to buy another one. He
hasn’t.


Detroit’s defenders, from top executives on down, insist that they
have finally learned their lesson. They say a comeback is just around
the corner. But they said the same thing at the start of this decade
—
and the start of the last one and the one before that. All the while,
their market share has kept on falling.


There is good reason to keep G.M. and Chrysler from collapsing in
2009. (Ford is in slightly better shape.) The economy is in the worst
recession in a generation. You can think of the Detroit bailout as a
relatively cost-effective form of stimulus. It’s often cheaper to
keep
workers in their jobs than to create new jobs.


But Congress and the Obama administration shouldn’t fool themselves
into thinking that they can preserve the Big Three in anything like
their current form. Very soon, they need to shrink to a size that
reflects the American public’s collective judgment about the quality
of their products.


It’s a sad story, in many ways. But it can’t really be undone at this
point. If we had wanted to preserve the Big Three, we would have
bought more of their cars.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/bu...onhardt.html?p...


Millwright Ron


www.unionmillwright.com

On Dec 12, 12:33 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
> On Dec 12, 8:47 am, wrote:

> I think we all will need to work together and buy made in the U.S.A.

I agree. To that end, Congress and President-Elect O! should devote
their energy to propogandizing in favor of buying American. What
they should not do is "loan" money to guaranteed losers, or worse yet
nationalize GM or Chrysler.

Of course, this new marketing effort would have to exclude Canadian,
Mexican, Australian, and Korean built products, like the Chevy Aveo
and the Dodge Challenger and the upcoming Camaro, and include made-in-
the-USA Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, and BMWs.

> $73 an Hour
>
> That figure — repeated on television and in newspapers as the average
> pay of a Big Three autoworker — has become a big symbol in the fight
> over what should happen to Detroit. To critics, it is a neat
> encapsulation of everything that’s wrong with bloated car companies
> and their entitled workers.
>
> To the Big Three’s defenders, meanwhile, the number has become proof
> positive that autoworkers are being unfairly blamed for Detroit’s
> decline. “We’ve heard this garbage about 73 bucks an hour,” Senator
> Bob Casey, a Pennsylvania Democrat, said last week. “It’s a total
> lie.
> I think some people have perpetrated that deliberately, in a
> calculated way, to mislead the American people about what we’re doing
> here.”

[snip]

Your quoted/linked item from the NY Times is the factually challenged
story. See a thorough debunking he http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2162.cfm
.. A quote:

Retirement Benefits Alone Cost $31 an Hour

The argument that retiree pension and health benefits inflate the
hourly labor costs of the Detroit automakers cannot withstand basic
scrutiny. For instance, General Motors UAW retirement plan paid $4.9
billion to 291,000 retirees and surviving spouses in 2006. That works
out to $31.04 an hour when apportioned among active workers. That
figure accounts for virtually all GM's benefit costs--before
accounting for health care costs, disability benefits, supplemental
unemployment benefits, or any of the other benefits GM provides. GM
pays too much in retirement benefits to have labor costs of only $70
an hour if that figure included benefits to current retirees.

Labor Costs Similar Despite Retiree Differences

The Detroit automakers pay similar wages at each company despite
having very different numbers of retirees to provide for. . . .
General Motors has far more retirees per active worker than Ford or
Chrysler. For each active worker at GM, there were 3.8 retirees or
dependants in 2006. At Chrysler this ratio was half as much: two
retirees for each worker. At Ford there were only 1.6 retirees per
worker. If the hourly labor costs included retiree benefits, hourly
wages at GM would be much higher than at either Ford or Chrysler.

But this is not the case. General Motors did not have the highest
hourly labor costs despite having more retirees. Chrysler paid $2.60
an hour more in labor costs in 2006 than GM did. Ford paid only $2.75
an hour less than GM did, despite having half as many retirees
relative to workers to provide for. All three automakers had roughly
the same hourly labor costs despite having very different numbers of
retirees to provide for. Hourly labor costs account for the expense of
providing wages and benefits to current workers but do not include
legacy costs.

Taxing the Many to Pay the Few

UAW spokespeople have roundly condemned the estimate of labor costs in
excess of $70 per current worker hour. They assert these figures
include the cost of current retiree pension and health benefits. They
have done so, however, without marshalling evidence to support their
case.

180 Out

> wrote in message
...
On Dec 12, 12:33 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
> On Dec 12, 8:47 am, wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Your quoted/linked item from the NY Times is the factually challenged
> story. See a thorough debunking he
> http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm2162.cfm

There was another article in the Detroit Free Press, "7 Myths about Detroit
Automakers."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2008812050400

....beginning with Myth 1: Nobody Buys Their Vehicles. All of these myths are
familiar to me, and I confess that I believed more than one of them.

It's interesting to me that we here discuss the overpaid assembly line
workers who are dragging down their own industry, while in another newsgroup
we discuss the appallingly low pay of retail clerks, whom we expect to be
experts in their fields. It's irrelevant, just interesting.

My own company has switched completely from pension to employee-funded
401(k) retirement plans. This will prevent that company from finding itself
straddled with a growing number of retirees (which, of course, was the whole
idea behind the switch by many, many companies to employee-funded retirement
plans, rather than company-funded, as in the past). Detroit, too late, is
already saddled with a growing number of retirees, and these fixed costs
cannot be addressed. Even if the current workers took a 1/3 cut in pay, it's
a non-issue. The UAW is a distraction, not the root cause of the problem.

Even the automotive offerings of the Big Three compare favorably to other
marks. From pickups and SUVs to fuel-efficient smaller cars, their lineup is
very similar to what the other brands are selling. Other than the sudden
surge in oil prices and the ensuing economic collapse, Detroit could have
soldiered on, trying to build what they thought the American public wanted.
But there was, in fact, a surge in oil prices, and sales dried up quickly.
Detroit never saw it coming and was unprepared. That may have been the big
failing.

If Detroit was meeting its sales quotas, we wouldn't be having this
discussion. Now that they are not, we're focusing on the hourly pay scale of
the average UAW worker.

Whenever a Republican politician opens his mouth, I know that I'm about to
hear a distraction. It's their favorite tactic. Rather than address the real
issues, they point to strawmen and fall guys, to draw attention away from
themselves. Republicans of late have spent an INCREDIBLE amount of money,
and we are now supposed to find new respect for them because they balk at
making a $14billion LOAN... And the sticking point? The UAW doesn't want to
come right out and say that they'll cut back their wages by 1/3 by next
September 1st.

The Republican party should be disbanded. Today.

dwight, disenfranchised Republican

> wrote in message
...
> On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
>> UNION BUSTING
>>
>> Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
>> BUSTING
>>
>> Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
>> Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
>> collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
>> when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>>
>> Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
>> this
>> crazy thing called "health care.
>>
>> Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com
>
> It would make no sense to ask financial industry workers to make
> concessions. The financial industries problems flow from bad
> investments in the trillions of dollars. Cutting pay and benefits in
> the millions or even billions would have no effect. By contrast, ALL
> of Detroit's problems have to do with its assembly line workers.
> First they have nearly destroyed the market for domestic products with
> their crappy workmanship and their crappy attitudes, beginning with
> the strikes of the Sixties and continuing at least through the mid
> Nineties. Economic meltdown or no economic meltdown, the result of
> these decades of crap products is that it is difficult to find anyone
> under the age of 50 who will even consider a Detroit product. Second,
> Detroit's assembly line workers' pay packages and work rules and
> benefits put Detroit at a competitive disadvantage. That competitive
> disadvantage is sending the industry to the bottom. Modifications to
> the pay packages and work rules and benefits can have an effect on
> that competitive disadvantage.
>
> Now do you understand why financial workers have not been asked to
> make concessions, while Detroit's assembly line workers must make
> concessions or else lose their jobs completely? Moreover, your
> argument is not against concessions, it is in favor of spreading the
> concession mandate more broadly. Or, if I misunderstand you and your
> argument is that Detroit assembly line workers should make no further
> concessions, then you better start that job search right now.
>
> 180 Out

While I don't disagree with you on the points regarding the UAW's
culpability in the automaker's troubles, the rest is simplistic and in
error. Concessions from the financial industry workers is not the major
problem with this ridiculous bailout. What frosts me is that congress is
willing to throw Billions with no strings attached at an industry that
cannot stop living high off the hog. Some of these companies are using
taxpayer money to expand their business, continue to fund executive
pay/bonus packages and hold meetings at exclusive resorts. Congress has done
nothing to curb this except continue to fund these practices. Then they
have the gall to rake the auto industry over the coals and demand some
unspecified new business model in exchange for a few paltry (in comparison)
dollars. I find this totally obscene. For decades the UAW (and all other
unions) have voted for Democrats as the "party of the working man". As
these working men get left behind by congress, maybe they will rethink their
position on politics.

Mike

One of the things that nearly killed finance is "easy credit".

Not a week went by that I didn't get pre-approved credit card offers in the
mail... in my "in-box".. over the telephone. Companies were desparate for me
to borrow their money.. "Take it!!! Please!!!".

I am uncomfortable owing money... many aren't - and they will constantly
borrow enough money to get in trouble.

While finance ius raking in big profits in interest and user fees. it is
upper management and capital investments that are the winners... The
"grunts" in the trenches... clerks, number crunchers, rank and file
employees don't appear to receive staggering wages....

However.... UAW assembly line workers.... their wage/benefit package is
reported to cost the manufacturer over $70 per hour... "Put tab A in slot B
is worth over $70 per hour"? This is nuckin' futs.... Based on this
principal, a packet of McDonalds french fries would be something like $10 if
not more.... but cooking fries is pretty dangerous what with all that hot
oil and the shop steward might shut down production at any time.

A task is only worth a finite value... to unionize in an attempt to make
that task "worth" more will only serve to artificially inflate the cost of
those goods... fuelling inflation along the way.

"Michael" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
>>> UNION BUSTING
>>>
>>> Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
>>> BUSTING
>>>
>>> Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
>>> Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
>>> collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
>>> when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>>>
>>> Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
>>> this
>>> crazy thing called "health care.
>>>
>>> Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com
>>
>> It would make no sense to ask financial industry workers to make
>> concessions. The financial industries problems flow from bad
>> investments in the trillions of dollars. Cutting pay and benefits in
>> the millions or even billions would have no effect. By contrast, ALL
>> of Detroit's problems have to do with its assembly line workers.
>> First they have nearly destroyed the market for domestic products with
>> their crappy workmanship and their crappy attitudes, beginning with
>> the strikes of the Sixties and continuing at least through the mid
>> Nineties. Economic meltdown or no economic meltdown, the result of
>> these decades of crap products is that it is difficult to find anyone
>> under the age of 50 who will even consider a Detroit product. Second,
>> Detroit's assembly line workers' pay packages and work rules and
>> benefits put Detroit at a competitive disadvantage. That competitive
>> disadvantage is sending the industry to the bottom. Modifications to
>> the pay packages and work rules and benefits can have an effect on
>> that competitive disadvantage.
>>
>> Now do you understand why financial workers have not been asked to
>> make concessions, while Detroit's assembly line workers must make
>> concessions or else lose their jobs completely? Moreover, your
>> argument is not against concessions, it is in favor of spreading the
>> concession mandate more broadly. Or, if I misunderstand you and your
>> argument is that Detroit assembly line workers should make no further
>> concessions, then you better start that job search right now.
>>
>> 180 Out
>
> While I don't disagree with you on the points regarding the UAW's
> culpability in the automaker's troubles, the rest is simplistic and in
> error. Concessions from the financial industry workers is not the major
> problem with this ridiculous bailout. What frosts me is that congress is
> willing to throw Billions with no strings attached at an industry that
> cannot stop living high off the hog. Some of these companies are using
> taxpayer money to expand their business, continue to fund executive
> pay/bonus packages and hold meetings at exclusive resorts. Congress has
> done nothing to curb this except continue to fund these practices. Then
> they have the gall to rake the auto industry over the coals and demand
> some unspecified new business model in exchange for a few paltry (in
> comparison) dollars. I find this totally obscene. For decades the UAW
> (and all other unions) have voted for Democrats as the "party of the
> working man". As these working men get left behind by congress, maybe
> they will rethink their position on politics.
>
> Mike
>
>

So what your saying is a worker putting on parts on vehicles in factory (
tab A into tab B ) requires no skill. ( I did work in a Auto Factory, and I
will say there is one hell of allot more to know than that ). So your logic
dictates that a mechanic at a dealership should only make what a factory
worker should make, after all a mechanic does the same thing, put part on,
and plug in sensors! Most of the mechanics I know are well into the $20/hr
and up range.
> wrote in message
news:l6S0l.454$O53.448@edtnps82...
> One of the things that nearly killed finance is "easy credit".
>
> Not a week went by that I didn't get pre-approved credit card offers in
> the mail... in my "in-box".. over the telephone. Companies were desparate
> for me to borrow their money.. "Take it!!! Please!!!".
>
> I am uncomfortable owing money... many aren't - and they will constantly
> borrow enough money to get in trouble.
>
> While finance ius raking in big profits in interest and user fees. it is
> upper management and capital investments that are the winners... The
> "grunts" in the trenches... clerks, number crunchers, rank and file
> employees don't appear to receive staggering wages....
>
> However.... UAW assembly line workers.... their wage/benefit package is
> reported to cost the manufacturer over $70 per hour... "Put tab A in slot
> B is worth over $70 per hour"? This is nuckin' futs.... Based on this
> principal, a packet of McDonalds french fries would be something like $10
> if not more.... but cooking fries is pretty dangerous what with all that
> hot oil and the shop steward might shut down production at any time.
>
> A task is only worth a finite value... to unionize in an attempt to make
> that task "worth" more will only serve to artificially inflate the cost of
> those goods... fuelling inflation along the way.
>
> "Michael" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
>>>> UNION BUSTING
>>>>
>>>> Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
>>>> BUSTING
>>>>
>>>> Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
>>>> Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
>>>> collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
>>>> when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>>>>
>>>> Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
>>>> this
>>>> crazy thing called "health care.
>>>>
>>>> Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com
>>>
>>> It would make no sense to ask financial industry workers to make
>>> concessions. The financial industries problems flow from bad
>>> investments in the trillions of dollars. Cutting pay and benefits in
>>> the millions or even billions would have no effect. By contrast, ALL
>>> of Detroit's problems have to do with its assembly line workers.
>>> First they have nearly destroyed the market for domestic products with
>>> their crappy workmanship and their crappy attitudes, beginning with
>>> the strikes of the Sixties and continuing at least through the mid
>>> Nineties. Economic meltdown or no economic meltdown, the result of
>>> these decades of crap products is that it is difficult to find anyone
>>> under the age of 50 who will even consider a Detroit product. Second,
>>> Detroit's assembly line workers' pay packages and work rules and
>>> benefits put Detroit at a competitive disadvantage. That competitive
>>> disadvantage is sending the industry to the bottom. Modifications to
>>> the pay packages and work rules and benefits can have an effect on
>>> that competitive disadvantage.
>>>
>>> Now do you understand why financial workers have not been asked to
>>> make concessions, while Detroit's assembly line workers must make
>>> concessions or else lose their jobs completely? Moreover, your
>>> argument is not against concessions, it is in favor of spreading the
>>> concession mandate more broadly. Or, if I misunderstand you and your
>>> argument is that Detroit assembly line workers should make no further
>>> concessions, then you better start that job search right now.
>>>
>>> 180 Out
>>
>> While I don't disagree with you on the points regarding the UAW's
>> culpability in the automaker's troubles, the rest is simplistic and in
>> error. Concessions from the financial industry workers is not the major
>> problem with this ridiculous bailout. What frosts me is that congress is
>> willing to throw Billions with no strings attached at an industry that
>> cannot stop living high off the hog. Some of these companies are using
>> taxpayer money to expand their business, continue to fund executive
>> pay/bonus packages and hold meetings at exclusive resorts. Congress has
>> done nothing to curb this except continue to fund these practices. Then
>> they have the gall to rake the auto industry over the coals and demand
>> some unspecified new business model in exchange for a few paltry (in
>> comparison) dollars. I find this totally obscene. For decades the UAW
>> (and all other unions) have voted for Democrats as the "party of the
>> working man". As these working men get left behind by congress, maybe
>> they will rethink their position on politics.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
>

Yes... assembly line work requires little in the way of skills.... It's a
bit like "would you like a pickle on that?". There are no diagnostic skills
required.... there is no real thought process required.... I have done the
pre-delivery inspection on enough vehicles that I can see where people have
"gone to sleep". My logic says that a 'good" mechanic should make a LOT more
than somme poohawk on an assembly line....

One of the reasons that the mechanical trades are in trouble is because
you folks in the US are only willing to offer $20 per hour for a job worth
much more than $20 per hour (I am at almost $40 per hour).. At the same
time - an idiots wage package is worth over $70???? Give your ****ing head a
shake!!!

The mechanic doesn't charge for performing a fix.... he charges for knowing
which fix to perform....




"razz" > wrote in message
...
> So what your saying is a worker putting on parts on vehicles in factory
> ( tab A into tab B ) requires no skill. ( I did work in a Auto Factory,
> and I will say there is one hell of allot more to know than that ). So
> your logic dictates that a mechanic at a dealership should only make what
> a factory worker should make, after all a mechanic does the same thing,
> put part on, and plug in sensors! Most of the mechanics I know are well
> into the $20/hr and up range.
> > wrote in message
> news:l6S0l.454$O53.448@edtnps82...
>> One of the things that nearly killed finance is "easy credit".
>>
>> Not a week went by that I didn't get pre-approved credit card offers in
>> the mail... in my "in-box".. over the telephone. Companies were desparate
>> for me to borrow their money.. "Take it!!! Please!!!".
>>
>> I am uncomfortable owing money... many aren't - and they will constantly
>> borrow enough money to get in trouble.
>>
>> While finance ius raking in big profits in interest and user fees. it is
>> upper management and capital investments that are the winners... The
>> "grunts" in the trenches... clerks, number crunchers, rank and file
>> employees don't appear to receive staggering wages....
>>
>> However.... UAW assembly line workers.... their wage/benefit package is
>> reported to cost the manufacturer over $70 per hour... "Put tab A in slot
>> B is worth over $70 per hour"? This is nuckin' futs.... Based on this
>> principal, a packet of McDonalds french fries would be something like $10
>> if not more.... but cooking fries is pretty dangerous what with all that
>> hot oil and the shop steward might shut down production at any time.
>>
>> A task is only worth a finite value... to unionize in an attempt to make
>> that task "worth" more will only serve to artificially inflate the cost
>> of those goods... fuelling inflation along the way.
>>
>> "Michael" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Dec 11, 7:05 pm, Millwright Ron > wrote:
>>>>> UNION BUSTING
>>>>>
>>>>> Republican Senator Admits Opposition to Auto Bill is All About UNION
>>>>> BUSTING
>>>>>
>>>>> Why were Wall Street workers not asked for concessions?
>>>>> Autoworkers stepped up to the plate to save the car industry. White-
>>>>> collar workers, on the other hand, weren't expected to do the same
>>>>> when financial firms went to Congress with hat in hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Its all those damn workers fault for trying to get pay raises and
>>>>> this
>>>>> crazy thing called "health care.
>>>>>
>>>>> Millwright Ronwww.unionmillwright.com
>>>>
>>>> It would make no sense to ask financial industry workers to make
>>>> concessions. The financial industries problems flow from bad
>>>> investments in the trillions of dollars. Cutting pay and benefits in
>>>> the millions or even billions would have no effect. By contrast, ALL
>>>> of Detroit's problems have to do with its assembly line workers.
>>>> First they have nearly destroyed the market for domestic products with
>>>> their crappy workmanship and their crappy attitudes, beginning with
>>>> the strikes of the Sixties and continuing at least through the mid
>>>> Nineties. Economic meltdown or no economic meltdown, the result of
>>>> these decades of crap products is that it is difficult to find anyone
>>>> under the age of 50 who will even consider a Detroit product. Second,
>>>> Detroit's assembly line workers' pay packages and work rules and
>>>> benefits put Detroit at a competitive disadvantage. That competitive
>>>> disadvantage is sending the industry to the bottom. Modifications to
>>>> the pay packages and work rules and benefits can have an effect on
>>>> that competitive disadvantage.
>>>>
>>>> Now do you understand why financial workers have not been asked to
>>>> make concessions, while Detroit's assembly line workers must make
>>>> concessions or else lose their jobs completely? Moreover, your
>>>> argument is not against concessions, it is in favor of spreading the
>>>> concession mandate more broadly. Or, if I misunderstand you and your
>>>> argument is that Detroit assembly line workers should make no further
>>>> concessions, then you better start that job search right now.
>>>>
>>>> 180 Out
>>>
>>> While I don't disagree with you on the points regarding the UAW's
>>> culpability in the automaker's troubles, the rest is simplistic and in
>>> error. Concessions from the financial industry workers is not the major
>>> problem with this ridiculous bailout. What frosts me is that congress
>>> is willing to throw Billions with no strings attached at an industry
>>> that cannot stop living high off the hog. Some of these companies are
>>> using taxpayer money to expand their business, continue to fund
>>> executive pay/bonus packages and hold meetings at exclusive resorts.
>>> Congress has done nothing to curb this except continue to fund these
>>> practices. Then they have the gall to rake the auto industry over the
>>> coals and demand some unspecified new business model in exchange for a
>>> few paltry (in comparison) dollars. I find this totally obscene. For
>>> decades the UAW (and all other unions) have voted for Democrats as the
>>> "party of the working man". As these working men get left behind by
>>> congress, maybe they will rethink their position on politics.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>