Almost dead in my 2000..

Last Friday I got onto the Garden State Parkway (in Northern NJ) to
begin my drive back
down to Tampa. As I pulled away from the toll booth and accelerated to
about 60, the car to my left veered into my lane. The only thing that
I could do was move to the right... really I just reacted and flicked
it to the right...but as I did, suddenly my MX5 lost traction and the
rear started to come around to the left and for a brief moment I was
sliding sideways... before the front end came around and did the full
180. My first thought as the car started to spin was I don't want to
die today...because all the traffic that was behind me was
accelerating away from the toll booth also...

as the car came to a stop I was now perpendicular to the flow of
traffic facing east. I watched out the window as 1 car went around me
and cars were slamming on their brakes.
Fortunately I didn't get hit. I was able to do a k turn and pulled off
the parkway. I checked the car out after I stopped shaking. I then got
my tire guage out and checked the pressure... and they were all around
38-40 pounds. I know the pressure should be 25 based on the door
sticker...and I was quite angry with myself for not checking the
pressure when the tires were replaced two weeks earlier.

Aside from over reaction (though as I think about it I don't know if I
really did) could the tire pressure have caused the car to lose
traction and skid like that? What can I do to train
myself from ever having anything like that happen again? In 34 years
of driving I have never had something so un-expected and frightening
happen. My RX-7 could get hairy on wet pavement and I learned to drive
it accordingly.

In article .com>,
zenmartini > wrote:

> Aside from over reaction (though as I think about it I don't know if I
> really did) could the tire pressure have caused the car to lose
> traction and skid like that?

Yes, but they weren't *that* high. I'll bet you hit the brakes hard at
the same time you jerked the wheel over. That's a guaranteed spin.

> What can I do to train myself from ever having anything like that
> happen again?

Sign up for some track instruction. In a car as well balanced as a
Miata, the proper responses may seem counterintuitive, so you need to
train your reflexes to do the right thing without thinking.

Of course, there's no substitute for situational awareness and a healthy
dose of paranoia. Keep track of all the cars around you, and assume
they're all out to hit you. Your goal is to make that impossible by
being unhittable. Predict their trajectories, and keep your options
open. It's pure defensive driving.

On Apr 18, 3:19 pm, Lanny Chambers > wrote:
> In article .com>,
>
> zenmartini > wrote:
> > Aside from over reaction (though as I think about it I don't know if I
> > really did) could the tire pressure have caused the car to lose
> > traction and skid like that?
>
> Yes, but they weren't *that* high. I'll bet you hit the brakes hard at
> the same time you jerked the wheel over. That's a guaranteed spin.
>
> > What can I do to train myself from ever having anything like that
> > happen again?
>
> Sign up for some track instruction. In a car as well balanced as a
> Miata, the proper responses may seem counterintuitive, so you need to
> train your reflexes to do the right thing without thinking.
>
> Of course, there's no substitute for situational awareness and a healthy
> dose of paranoia. Keep track of all the cars around you, and assume
> they're all out to hit you. Your goal is to make that impossible by
> being unhittable. Predict their trajectories, and keep your options
> open. It's pure defensive driving.

I was thinking that I must have hit the brakes but I have no memory of
it...

zenmartini wrote:
>
> I was thinking that I must have hit the brakes but I have no memory of
> it...
>
That's good and bad. In most traffic situations going wrong hitting the
brake as a reflex will save you from ramming something but as you just
experienced it's not always the case. Still I think it's much better to
have the brake reflex to perhaps work on than it is to not have it.

I remember when I was taking my driving lessons there was an incident
one day, after having perhaps 7 or 8 lessons, where I was doing about 30
mph on a city street and this kid decided it was a good idea to cross
the street. Without even thinking I braked hard and even managing to
beat my instructors foot to the pedal. Afterwards I felt pretty sure I
was on the right track to one day becoming an okay driver.

As Lanny suggests it's a good idea to get extra driving instructions. I
think that is something all people driving should do from time to time
since a lot of stuff is not something you train in everyday driving.
Just the reaction of a car when doing a full emergency stop is a chock
to many and some people even let go of the brake when they feel the
kickback from the ABS meaning they use a longer brake distance than they
should.

Kind regards
Bruno

zenmartini wrote:

> I was thinking that I must have hit the brakes but I have no memory of
> it...

After 34 years of driving, especially having owned an RX-7, you probably
have an intuitive response not to jerk the wheel and hit the brakes at
the same time.
If you didn't, this would have happened long before now in your other
vehicles. Maybe you did this time, maybe not, you'll probably never know.

Glad you made it, by the way.

You mentioned new tires. What type are they? I have found a miata on
slippery tires to be one of the easiest cars to spin out, though I have
only done so a few times in a miata and that was on purpose in a parking
lot.
Anytime someone drives my car I warn them that it can switch ends quite
suddenly, especially with over 200 hp. I also usually put on the 5-point
harness when I am the passenger, heh.

Finally, while track instruction is a great idea, I also know of at
least two local driving school graduates and regular autocrossers/racers
who have left their miatas totaled after wrecking them on Lime Creek Road.
Sometimes **** just happens.

Pat

zenmartini wrote:
> Last Friday I got onto the Garden State Parkway (in Northern NJ) to
> begin my drive back
> down to Tampa. As I pulled away from the toll booth and accelerated
> to
> about 60, the car to my left veered into my lane. The only thing
> that
> I could do was move to the right... really I just reacted and
> flicked
> it to the right...but as I did, suddenly my MX5 lost traction and
> the
> rear started to come around to the left and for a brief moment I was
> sliding sideways... before the front end came around and did the
> full
> 180. My first thought as the car started to spin was I don't want to
> die today...because all the traffic that was behind me was
> accelerating away from the toll booth also...
>
> as the car came to a stop I was now perpendicular to the flow of
> traffic facing east. I watched out the window as 1 car went around
> me
> and cars were slamming on their brakes.
> Fortunately I didn't get hit. I was able to do a k turn and pulled
> off
> the parkway. I checked the car out after I stopped shaking. I then
> got
> my tire guage out and checked the pressure... and they were all
> around
> 38-40 pounds. I know the pressure should be 25 based on the door
> sticker...and I was quite angry with myself for not checking the
> pressure when the tires were replaced two weeks earlier.
>
> Aside from over reaction (though as I think about it I don't know if
> I
> really did) could the tire pressure have caused the car to lose
> traction and skid like that? What can I do to train
> myself from ever having anything like that happen again? In 34 years
> of driving I have never had something so un-expected and frightening
> happen. My RX-7 could get hairy on wet pavement and I learned to
> drive
> it accordingly.

Yikes! Glad to hear you weren't injured. The traffic on the GSP can
be horrific.

Higher tire pressure will make the sidewalls stiffer and give you a
smaller footprint on the road. It's a real possibility that caused
your spin.

And didn't you Joisey folks get the same nasty wet weather last Friday
that we did here in Eastern PA? That could also have been a factor in
the situation.

Iva & Belle.)
'90B Classic Red.)
#3 winkin' Miata

On Apr 18, 8:20 pm, "Iva" > wrote:
> zenmartini wrote:
> > Last Friday I got onto the Garden State Parkway (in Northern NJ) to
> > begin my drive back
> > down to Tampa. As I pulled away from the toll booth and accelerated
> > to
> > about 60, the car to my left veered into my lane. The only thing
> > that
> > I could do was move to the right... really I just reacted and
> > flicked
> > it to the right...but as I did, suddenly my MX5 lost traction and
> > the
> > rear started to come around to the left and for a brief moment I was
> > sliding sideways... before the front end came around and did the
> > full
> > 180. My first thought as the car started to spin was I don't want to
> > die today...because all the traffic that was behind me was
> > accelerating away from the toll booth also...
>
> > as the car came to a stop I was now perpendicular to the flow of
> > traffic facing east. I watched out the window as 1 car went around
> > me
> > and cars were slamming on their brakes.
> > Fortunately I didn't get hit. I was able to do a k turn and pulled
> > off
> > the parkway. I checked the car out after I stopped shaking. I then
> > got
> > my tire guage out and checked the pressure... and they were all
> > around
> > 38-40 pounds. I know the pressure should be 25 based on the door
> > sticker...and I was quite angry with myself for not checking the
> > pressure when the tires were replaced two weeks earlier.
>
> > Aside from over reaction (though as I think about it I don't know if
> > I
> > really did) could the tire pressure have caused the car to lose
> > traction and skid like that? What can I do to train
> > myself from ever having anything like that happen again? In 34 years
> > of driving I have never had something so un-expected and frightening
> > happen. My RX-7 could get hairy on wet pavement and I learned to
> > drive
> > it accordingly.
>
> Yikes! Glad to hear you weren't injured. The traffic on the GSP can
> be horrific.
>
> Higher tire pressure will make the sidewalls stiffer and give you a
> smaller footprint on the road. It's a real possibility that caused
> your spin.
>
> And didn't you Joisey folks get the same nasty wet weather last Friday
> that we did here in Eastern PA? That could also have been a factor in
> the situation.
>
> Iva & Belle.)
> '90B Classic Red.)
> #3 winkin' Miata- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I hit the road before the rain.. holed up in PA with an old friend and
cruised right past Blackburg VA (decided to see an ancestors grave in
GA) right after the **** hit the fan. I've made the NJ Tampa run round
trip 3 times in 7 weeks now...don't ask.

"zenmartini" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Last Friday I got onto the Garden State Parkway (in Northern NJ) to
> begin my drive back
> down to Tampa. As I pulled away from the toll booth and accelerated to
> about 60, the car to my left veered into my lane. The only thing that
> I could do was move to the right... really I just reacted and flicked
> it to the right...but as I did, suddenly my MX5 lost traction and the
> rear started to come around to the left and for a brief moment I was
> sliding sideways... before the front end came around and did the full
> 180. My first thought as the car started to spin was I don't want to
> die today...because all the traffic that was behind me was
> accelerating away from the toll booth also...
>
> as the car came to a stop I was now perpendicular to the flow of
> traffic facing east. I watched out the window as 1 car went around me
> and cars were slamming on their brakes.
> Fortunately I didn't get hit. I was able to do a k turn and pulled off
> the parkway. I checked the car out after I stopped shaking. I then got
> my tire guage out and checked the pressure... and they were all around
> 38-40 pounds. I know the pressure should be 25 based on the door
> sticker...and I was quite angry with myself for not checking the
> pressure when the tires were replaced two weeks earlier.
>
> Aside from over reaction (though as I think about it I don't know if I
> really did) could the tire pressure have caused the car to lose
> traction and skid like that? What can I do to train
> myself from ever having anything like that happen again? In 34 years
> of driving I have never had something so un-expected and frightening
> happen. My RX-7 could get hairy on wet pavement and I learned to drive
> it accordingly.
>
Almost certainly tire pressure.
In my case many years ago driving a rental I noticed when going round
corners the back of the car almost seemed to bounce round corners and
threaten to swing out. I first thought I might have a flat but it wasn't the
case and it was only when I checked tire pressure at the next garage found
they where 40psi. I imagine that this sort of bounce would be highly
inconvienent when doing any sudden changes in direction.

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:15:08 +1200, "J Brockley" > wrote:

>....I then got
>> my tire guage out and checked the pressure... and they were all around
>> 38-40 pounds....
>
>Almost certainly tire pressure.
>In my case many years ago driving a rental I noticed when going round
>corners the back of the car almost seemed to bounce round corners and
>threaten to swing out. I first thought I might have a flat but it wasn't the
>case and it was only when I checked tire pressure at the next garage found
>they where 40psi. I imagine that this sort of bounce would be highly
>inconvienent when doing any sudden changes in direction.

Basically, those are hot race track pressures -- fine for precision handling,
but only if you know what you're doing and have a lot of experience with those
pressures at the track or autocross.

-- Larry

On Apr 19, 9:02 am, pltrgyst > wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:15:08 +1200, "J Brockley" > wrote:
> >....I then got
> >> my tire guage out and checked the pressure... and they were all around
> >> 38-40 pounds....
>
> >Almost certainly tire pressure.
> >In my case many years ago driving a rental I noticed when going round
> >corners the back of the car almost seemed to bounce round corners and
> >threaten to swing out. I first thought I might have a flat but it wasn't the
> >case and it was only when I checked tire pressure at the next garage found
> >they where 40psi. I imagine that this sort of bounce would be highly
> >inconvienent when doing any sudden changes in direction.
>
> Basically, those are hot race track pressures -- fine for precision handling,
> but only if you know what you're doing and have a lot of experience with those
> pressures at the track or autocross.
>
> -- Larry

Well here's what has really botherd me about this....
I have been driving a long time...34 years. I have owmed am MG,
Triumph, Capri ('73), several Volvo's, 3 BMW motorcycles and an
airplane. I live and breath safety whenever I do anything I consider
acceptable risk.... I have taken Motorcyle Safety Foundation classes
every two years, did the CLASS course at Watkins Glenn (on my bike), I
have my instrument rating etc etc etc... I always used to wonder how
guys with 30,000 flying hours would run out of gas or VMC in IMC
conditions while flying and now I have a much clearer idea of how that
all happens. I was once again beginning a trip from NJ to Tampa
something I have done several times during the last 2 months.... i was
thinking about a lot of things.... I lost my situational awareness...
I must have tapped the brakes which started the high speed slide and
spin.. I knew enough to turn in the direction of the spin and remember
hitting the brakes to not hit the divider... I also think I'm going to
keep the laptop off the passenger seat..... I saw a documentary once
about the Blue Angels. One of the scenes has the pilots reviewing a
practice session and they critique each other... and when someone
screws up... and they know if they did ... the first thing they say
is.. "I'm just happy to be here." Well I feel the same way and I wanna
learn how to not do that again.