Downshifting 101, Part Deuxx (2-1 & heel-and-toe)

Hello everyone. For those of you who missed out before, this series
is about me learning to downshift (CGGW is my first stick-shift car).
Right now where I'm at is, I've gotten to the point where I can do
3-2, 4-3, and 5-4 downshifts with reasonable rev-matching, but they
aren't automatic like upshifting is - I need a couple seconds to set
my brain beforehand. That's okay for now I guess, I figure more
practicing will help.

I do have a couple more questions though. First of all, is there any
reason not to try doing 2-1 downshifts? I vaguely recall reading
something about the syncros or some other relevant parts of the
trannies in some cars being different w.r.t. this shift, and so it was
not recommended because of mechanical issues. Haven't tried it other
than when the car has slowed to a crawl, and don't seem to need to on
the street. The reason I am thinking of learning it is if it will
come in handy in the future for autocross. I saw a couple of
autocross videos on YouTube and it looks like there are sometimes
pretty slow corners or even hairpins.

Other than possible mechanical issues, the main difference with a 2-1
downshift that I can see is, a more dramatic adjustment is needed
matching revs, like almost double. (And that would be a reason why
doing it at 4000 rpm in 2nd would not be such a good idea.)

The other question is for heel-and-toe. CGGW is an '03 Shinsen
version (NB) btw. Are the pedals in this vintage of Miata well set-up
for trying H&T? I have only even attempted it a few times, it's
tricky. Right now I am thinking to brake with the toe or ball of my
right foot and then use the heel for blipping the throttle while
downshifting. And it seems like the braking needs to be at least
medium-hard, because without the brake pedal going down enough your
right foot is not on a good level to be working the throttle with its
heel.

As you can probably tell by now, any tips would be appreciated.

TIA & ZZ
Eric

Syncros were at first only on higher gears, in some old cars there is no
syncro on first. Most cars made since the late 60s have syncros on all
forward gears. The Miatas, like most modern cars have syncros on all
forward gears. Syncro reverse is uncommon, meaning with most cars you need
to stop before selecting reverse.

The 2-1 downchange is probably not needed if you are just pottering around
town, but for tight corners on autocross, it is essential! I heel-toe no
worries in my '94, but I am not sure it actaully accomplishes much.

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Hello everyone. For those of you who missed out before, this series
> is about me learning to downshift (CGGW is my first stick-shift car).
> Right now where I'm at is, I've gotten to the point where I can do
> 3-2, 4-3, and 5-4 downshifts with reasonable rev-matching, but they
> aren't automatic like upshifting is - I need a couple seconds to set
> my brain beforehand. That's okay for now I guess, I figure more
> practicing will help.
>
> I do have a couple more questions though. First of all, is there any
> reason not to try doing 2-1 downshifts? I vaguely recall reading
> something about the syncros or some other relevant parts of the
> trannies in some cars being different w.r.t. this shift, and so it was
> not recommended because of mechanical issues. Haven't tried it other
> than when the car has slowed to a crawl, and don't seem to need to on
> the street. The reason I am thinking of learning it is if it will
> come in handy in the future for autocross. I saw a couple of
> autocross videos on YouTube and it looks like there are sometimes
> pretty slow corners or even hairpins.
>
> Other than possible mechanical issues, the main difference with a 2-1
> downshift that I can see is, a more dramatic adjustment is needed
> matching revs, like almost double. (And that would be a reason why
> doing it at 4000 rpm in 2nd would not be such a good idea.)
>
> The other question is for heel-and-toe. CGGW is an '03 Shinsen
> version (NB) btw. Are the pedals in this vintage of Miata well set-up
> for trying H&T? I have only even attempted it a few times, it's
> tricky. Right now I am thinking to brake with the toe or ball of my
> right foot and then use the heel for blipping the throttle while
> downshifting. And it seems like the braking needs to be at least
> medium-hard, because without the brake pedal going down enough your
> right foot is not on a good level to be working the throttle with its
> heel.
>
> As you can probably tell by now, any tips would be appreciated.
>
> TIA & ZZ
> Eric
>

In article . com>,
wrote:

> The reason I am thinking of learning it is if it will
> come in handy in the future for autocross.

Not very often. I'd try slipping the clutch in 2nd before I'd waste time
on a 2-1 downshift followed inevitably by an immediate upshift.

> The 2-1 downchange is probably not needed if you are just pottering around
> town,

I feel like I need it all the time - the timing on stoplights etc is
invariably set to change just as I roll up, so that a gear 1.5 would be
perfect.

miker

So, essentially, you're saying you/ I /We need a "7 speed"?
Actually makes those new CVT's sound nice.

--
" ya gotta let it out, Captain! " ( Jaime Brockett )
"miker" > wrote in message
k.net...
>> The 2-1 downchange is probably not needed if you are just pottering
>> around
>> town,
>
> I feel like I need it all the time - the timing on stoplights etc is
> invariably set to change just as I roll up, so that a gear 1.5 would be
> perfect.
>
> miker
>
>
>

In article <H6rXh.4381$Rd.3763@trndny08>,
"Remove This" > wrote:

> Actually makes those new CVT's sound nice.

Hmph. The *worst* thing about a CVT is the sound--a boring,
constant-pitch drone.

"Remove This" > wrote:

> Actually makes those new CVT's sound nice.

Last summer I had occasion to rent a Dodge Caliber with the CVT.

I liked it, it seemed to work as well as any other automatic.

The car itself was interesting, really weird looking, incredibly
practical. Anne really liked it and wants one, my son drove it and was
very impressed with the ergonomics of it. Interesting.

>
> Not very often. I'd try slipping the clutch in 2nd before I'd waste time
> on a 2-1 downshift followed inevitably by an immediate upshift.

I'd agree with Lanny, most autocrosses are set up to where you pretty much
stay in second. There are of course exceptions.

To the OP, I'd add a couple of things, I rarely ever downshift thru every
gear. In normal driving I usually will downshift from 5 to 3 to 2 or 5 to 4
to 2 then plugging into 1st when I come to a full stop. With the NB there's
just enough torque that if the cars rolling AT ALL, second works real good
to get you up and going smoothly. Secondly, keep in mind that heal and
toeing sometimes means the right side of the ball of your foot operates the
gas and the left side of the ball of your foot operates the brake. H&T'g has
never worked very well for me but I'm horribly bowed legged and whatever you
call the opposite of pigeon toed, I guess I'm that too ;-) I can however
still walk and chew gum........

Chris
99BBB