Oil Pressure Hits Zero And Stays There- JGC '96

That report isn't exactly complementary is it? What did you switch to?

Jeff DeWitt

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> My 350,000 on my '78 Bronco and 300,000 miles on my '89 Thunderbird
> are on Fram filters and Pennzoil. I did switch to their more expensive
> filters when I found one with a loose element on an oil change:
> http://billhughes.com/mirror/oilfilterstudy.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
>>I'm not making any big endorsement of Fram products, don't have any
>>strong feelings about them, you shared your experience and I've shared mine.
>>
>>300,000 miles says a lot, I don't see any need to change without some
>>strong evidence that I should. I DID change oil with the new engine,
>>the old one had 300,000 on Penzoil and Fram, the new one has Shell
>>Rotella, partly because from everything I've heard it's excellent oil,
>>and partly because it's what I use in my Studebakers and it's easier to
>>just keep one kind of oil around.
>>
>>And thinking men don't throw out insults with no good reason.
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt

The all new blue Cheer Extra strength:
http://www.billhughes.com/temp/framOilFilters.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>
> That report isn't exactly complementary is it? What did you switch to?
>
> Jeff DeWitt

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:
> I'd be interested in knowing what engine failure you blame on Fram.
> They definitely were the best when spin-ons first appeared in the mid
> fifties, their base plate was thicker, enough never to blow off as many
> did. Also made them very hard to chisel off if over tightened.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Outatime wrote:
>> Idiots see insults where none exist.
>>
>> Troll elsewhere.

I'll chime in again. Most of my pre-Jeep vehicles had Chrysler Slant 6
engines. Like the Jeep 4.0, the filter sits "upside down" on these
engines. That is the open part with the threads is on the bottom, facing
the street.

This orientation tends to make gravity drain the oil back into the pan
when the engine is not running. Having a filter full of oil when you
start in the morning is important, as if it drains back into the pan,
the oil pump has to pump the filter full of oil before it goes out to
the bearings.

Fram and purelator filters generally tended to keep the filter full
overnight. AC and Motocraft would work okay at first, but would quickly
begin to drain back into the pan overnight. This happened to me
countless times over the years, about a weeks after an oil change, I
would have to sit and wait for the oil light to go out after starting
the car first thing in the morning. Changing to either a Fram or a
Purelator would solve the problem until the next oil change. Regardless
of the theory behind the various antidrainback valves, the ones in Fram
filters work and the ones in AC and Motocraft fail after minimal use in
my experience. I had the same problem with an AC filter on my 92 XJ
shortly after I got it.

Note that this has nothing to do with the filter medium itself. But I
change my oil regularly at 3000 miles or before, so I don't think it
matters that much.

After all I have read, I prefer Purelator, but the close by stores don't
carry them, so I will use Fram sometimes. I will never again buy an AC
or Motocraft oil filter for a vehicle in which the filter sits upside
down. On something like a 318 or 383, where the filter sits sideways or
with the holes at the top, it probably doesn't matter.

Best Regards,

Dave.

Fram filters meet the minimum standards under single pass SAE J806 tests.
They do not make other claims in writing other than they meet this spec.

Some other manufacturers claim to exceed the single pass SAE J806 tests and
proudly promote their scores on the optional SAE J1858 multi-pass filtration
test.

Be aware that the only requirement to satisfy your warranty protection at
this time is passing the J806 test. If you want a filter that just passes
the minimum standard then Fram is the filter for you.

I am, of course, aware that Fram earn its place, decades ago, as the top of
the line in oil filtering.

I do not know if Fram ceased to improve their filters somewhere along the
line or if they intentionally took a step backwards in an effort to decrease
costs and maximize profits.

I might add here that a superior filter would be worth some extra cost but
the superior filters are less expensive than Fram as well.

To be fair Fram does make a filter of average industry quality filter which
they chose to market and price as a 'premium' filter.

Perhaps this is the "expensive" filter Bill is referring to, the filter that
adds PTFE (Teflon) to your motor oil.

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Jeff,
> My 350,000 on my '78 Bronco and 300,000 miles on my '89 Thunderbird
> are on Fram filters and Pennzoil. I did switch to their more expensive
> filters when I found one with a loose element on an oil change:
> http://billhughes.com/mirror/oilfilterstudy.htm
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
>>
>> I'm not making any big endorsement of Fram products, don't have any
>> strong feelings about them, you shared your experience and I've shared
>> mine.
>>
>> 300,000 miles says a lot, I don't see any need to change without some
>> strong evidence that I should. I DID change oil with the new engine,
>> the old one had 300,000 on Penzoil and Fram, the new one has Shell
>> Rotella, partly because from everything I've heard it's excellent oil,
>> and partly because it's what I use in my Studebakers and it's easier to
>> just keep one kind of oil around.
>>
>> And thinking men don't throw out insults with no good reason.
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt

They haven't even gotten that far here, Bill. I was responding to an ad in
the local paper, that was asking for substitute teachers, with a minimum
qualification of a "high school diploma". Now that may be legal according
to Colorado law and approved by the school board, but it sure isn't the best
thing for the students. They hired a Spanish teacher with no degree at all,
they regularly use "aides" with no teaching certificate to teach classes,
one of the teachers has a "mail order" teaching certificate, people are
leaving town because of the school, my neighbor's kid commutes fifty miles
each way to a school where the teachers have brains. It goes on. Thank God
my kids are all out of school, or I wouldn't have moved here. But I do
object to their wasting my money on an inferior product.

http://www.silvertoncolorado.com

Earle

"L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Earle,
> Because it's true. The teachers will only except there liberal,
> anti American, socialist views.
> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Earle Horton wrote:
> >
> > One thing I learned while I was in Spain. It is "never" past the
teasing
> > stage. You should see the letter I recently wrote to the newspaper
about
> > the local school system. Here are the good bits
> >
> > "...I have noticed that many of the local people are exceptionally
stupid...
> > ...I used to think that poor upbringing was the cause of this, but now I
> > suspect that education has something to do with it..."
> >
> > You could have knocked me over with a feather, when the newspaper editor
> > printed it! I will have to revise my opinion of her muy pronto.
> >
> > Earle



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

They do have a bewildering array of filters to choose from, don't they?

Earle

"billy ray" > wrote in message
...
> Fram filters meet the minimum standards under single pass SAE J806 tests.
> They do not make other claims in writing other than they meet this spec.
>
> Some other manufacturers claim to exceed the single pass SAE J806 tests
and
> proudly promote their scores on the optional SAE J1858 multi-pass
filtration
> test.
>
> Be aware that the only requirement to satisfy your warranty protection at
> this time is passing the J806 test. If you want a filter that just passes
> the minimum standard then Fram is the filter for you.
>
> I am, of course, aware that Fram earn its place, decades ago, as the top
of
> the line in oil filtering.
>
> I do not know if Fram ceased to improve their filters somewhere along the
> line or if they intentionally took a step backwards in an effort to
decrease
> costs and maximize profits.
>
> I might add here that a superior filter would be worth some extra cost but
> the superior filters are less expensive than Fram as well.
>
> To be fair Fram does make a filter of average industry quality filter
which
> they chose to market and price as a 'premium' filter.
>
> Perhaps this is the "expensive" filter Bill is referring to, the filter
that
> adds PTFE (Teflon) to your motor oil.
>
> "L.W.(Bill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Jeff,
> > My 350,000 on my '78 Bronco and 300,000 miles on my '89 Thunderbird
> > are on Fram filters and Pennzoil. I did switch to their more expensive
> > filters when I found one with a loose element on an oil change:
> > http://billhughes.com/mirror/oilfilterstudy.htm
> > God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
> > http://www.billhughes.com/
> >
> > Jeffrey DeWitt wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm not making any big endorsement of Fram products, don't have any
> >> strong feelings about them, you shared your experience and I've shared
> >> mine.
> >>
> >> 300,000 miles says a lot, I don't see any need to change without some
> >> strong evidence that I should. I DID change oil with the new engine,
> >> the old one had 300,000 on Penzoil and Fram, the new one has Shell
> >> Rotella, partly because from everything I've heard it's excellent oil,
> >> and partly because it's what I use in my Studebakers and it's easier to
> >> just keep one kind of oil around.
> >>
> >> And thinking men don't throw out insults with no good reason.
> >>
> >> Jeff DeWitt
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote:

> I'd be interested in knowing what engine failure you blame on Fram.
> They definitely were the best when spin-ons first appeared in the mid
> fifties, their base plate was thicker, enough never to blow off as many
> did. Also made them very hard to chisel off if over tightened.

Both engines had blocked oil passages due to bits of Fram's filter media
breaking off and moving through the engine until they found a port small
enough to block; other pieces then sealed it further.

I had advance warning on a Chrysler slant-6; the rocker arm oil ports
were blocked; I pulled it apart, found the foreign material, cleaned it
and dismissed it as a probable dirty short-block I'd just installed.
Within a week, pressure suddenly dropped to near-zero and several mains
spun. Pretty much the same deal with the 2.2 (?) Rabbit engine in the
Omni; same fate, although the pan pick-up screen ended up plugged on
this one instead. This time around, I hired a mechanic to find out WTH
it was; he blamed the oil filter, and said Fram had changed hands and
their products were now something to avoid. FWIW, he said their air
filters weren't worth using either.

>I might add here that a superior filter would be worth some extra cost
>but the superior filters are less expensive than Fram as well.

Good point; I can't see using a lesser-quality filter that costs more.

I can't see using a lesser-quality filter for any price, for that
matter. I've had actual engine failure from junk filters; just bad luck
maybe. I also had a a Fram PCV valve come apart once, dropping pieces
of plastic, a spring and a steel plunger down into the overhead
valvetrain assembly; found most of it after pulling the cover, and the
rest ended up in the oil filter. Had to sweat another plugged oil
passage from that wonderful little incident as well. Nope, nononono, no
more Fram-anything for me, ever.

I think this is the first time I've heard anything bad about Fram Air
Filters.



"Outatime" > wrote in message
. ..
-snip-
This time around, I hired a mechanic to find out WTH
> it was; he blamed the oil filter, and said Fram had changed hands and
> their products were now something to avoid. FWIW, he said their air
> filters weren't worth using either.

billy ray wrote:
> I think this is the first time I've heard anything bad about Fram Air
> Filters.

I've had no probem with fram air filters. Lots of dust and none of
it got into the intake. I'll take fram AF over the high-flow oiled
types any day.

> "Outatime" wrote ...
> -snip-
> This time around, I hired a mechanic to find out WTH
>> it was; he blamed the oil filter, and said Fram had changed hands and
>> their products were now something to avoid. FWIW, he said their air
>> filters weren't worth using either.