302 Clevland????

"DRAGNET" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Les Benn wrote:
>> As far as I know the Cleveland Plant never made a 302. The Cleveland 351
>> was
>> superior to the Windsor one.
>
> as for the 351c being superior
>
> 351c, produced 5 years, 70-74
>
> 351w, produced 30 years, 69-98

I think the Cleveland was curtailed because the EPA determined
we were having too much fun. It has huge ports and valves and a
high compression ratio.

Nicholas Anthony wrote:
> "WindsorFox" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've never heard of such. Am I out of the loop or is this a typo??
>> http://www.austousa.com/4sale/forsale-1580.html
>>
>> --
>> “I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth Breidbart
>
> Yes there is a 302 Cleveland. Basically they were made in Australia out of
> the 351 Cleveland to offer an alternative 8 cylinder engine. What they did
> was take the 351 and reduce the stroke from 3.5 inches to 3 inches.
>
> Nick
>
>


Well there you go. The more cars I looked at the more
they mentioned the 302 Cleavland, so I began to figure it
wasn't a typo.

On one of the sites they talk about the histories of the
cars and companies and while talking about Holden's history
they showed a picture of an 05 or 06 Commodore. Under the
picture he says "and NO you can not import one!" I want to
know why. I also know if I ever do this I do NOT want to
move the controls.

--
“I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth
Breidbart

"DRAGNET" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Les Benn wrote:
>> As far as I know the Cleveland Plant never made a 302. The Cleveland 351
>> was
>> superior to the Windsor one.
>
> as for the 351c being superior
>
> 351c, produced 5 years, 70-74
>
> 351w, produced 30 years, 69-98
>

That illustrates what as to which engine is superior?

The 351C/429/BOSS 302 canted valve style heads were the best pushrod head
design Ford ever sold, far superior to any factory Ford Windsor head. That
is fact, not opinion.

In article >, WindsorFox wrote:

> On one of the sites they talk about the histories of the
> cars and companies and while talking about Holden's history
> they showed a picture of an 05 or 06 Commodore. Under the
> picture he says "and NO you can not import one!" I want to
> know why. I also know if I ever do this I do NOT want to
> move the controls.

Ford and GM have insisted on and the government has routinely supported
them that US regulations be different (and usually no better or worse)
that regulations everywhere else in the world for the express purpose of
preventing cars for sale in other markets to be sold in the USA.

Often, these vehicles are products they make elsewhere but do not sell in
the USA.

Back in 1980 or so there was truth to the US regs being superior for
crash protection and emissions. Now it's not so much as being superior,
but just different. Lighting regs in the USA are outdated and inferior to
those (ECE) used throughout the rest of the world.

The result of this is that if the car isn't 25 years old or older, you
can't bring it in to the USA legally. (well there is a very expensive and
long involved process, but even if you've got the money of Bill Gates
it's a pain in the ass, just google about his porsche)

In the globalism of "free-trade" companies can relocate their
manufacturing overseas to undercut the US worker. But the US worker can't
buy products of his choice from overseas to undercut or get a better
product.

From australia though there are some other technical complications
regarding the right hand drive, but there are no laws preventing RHD cars
from being on the road in the USA.

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, WindsorFox wrote:
>
>> On one of the sites they talk about the histories of the
>> cars and companies and while talking about Holden's history
>> they showed a picture of an 05 or 06 Commodore. Under the
>> picture he says "and NO you can not import one!" I want to
>> know why. I also know if I ever do this I do NOT want to
>> move the controls.
>
> Ford and GM have insisted on and the government has routinely supported
> them that US regulations be different (and usually no better or worse)
> that regulations everywhere else in the world for the express purpose of
> preventing cars for sale in other markets to be sold in the USA.
>
> Often, these vehicles are products they make elsewhere but do not sell in
> the USA.
>


Yeah like the sleek 4 door Dodge Charger they have. I'd
love to have an 03 5.0 Falcon.


--
“I intended that "not stupid" be a requirement.” – Seth
Breidbart

My Name Is Nobody wrote:
> "DRAGNET" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Les Benn wrote:
> >> As far as I know the Cleveland Plant never made a 302. The Cleveland 351
> >> was
> >> superior to the Windsor one.
> >
> > as for the 351c being superior
> >
> > 351c, produced 5 years, 70-74
> >
> > 351w, produced 30 years, 69-98
> >
>
> That illustrates what as to which engine is superior?
>
> The 351C/429/BOSS 302 canted valve style heads were the best pushrod head
> design Ford ever sold, far superior to any factory Ford Windsor head. That
> is fact, not opinion.

the 351c heads may be "superior" but the 351c engine as a total package
is not really superior, the 351c had better heads but had poor oilling
system,shorter deck height.
FWIW the boss 302 was a "windsor" with 351c style heads and the 95
cobra R was all 351 windsor. nascar engines are hybrids utilizing the
best of both designs,also the original 351w 4 barrel engine was rated
at 290 hp while most 351c 4 barrel engines hovered around 300 hp +/-

"DRAGNET" > wrote in news:1167652229.120291.95970
@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> as for the 351c being superior
>
> 351c, produced 5 years, 70-74
>
> 351w, produced 30 years, 69-98

The 351C WAS superior. It was a victim of both smog laws, and the
corporation being in major financial trouble. The decision was made to
continue producing the small block 351W, and to replace the 351C with a
stroked down 400 called the 351M, because Ford couldn't keep up with the
demand for that size engine using the 351W only.

Using a 400 block meant that Ford now only needed to build 2 blocks
rather than 3. The 351C block is very similar to the 400, but had enough
minor differences to require it to be built on a different assembly line.

A very popular mod to the 351W is called the "Clevor," which entails
modifying the superior 351C heads to fit on a 351W block.

351M was destroked 400 lo-po truck engine never installed in a car,
the majority of "ford" car people wouldn't even consider using 400/351m
although they are tall deck cleveland design.

"superior" means better in every way, it's just not the case when
comparing 351w to 351c

stroked 351w's are popular today, maybe ford should have built a
400'ish windsor, they already had the 302 pistons & the crank from the
400 that would fit with some minor mods.

"DRAGNET" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> My Name Is Nobody wrote:
>> "DRAGNET" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > Les Benn wrote:
>> >> As far as I know the Cleveland Plant never made a 302. The Cleveland
>> >> 351
>> >> was
>> >> superior to the Windsor one.
>> >
>> > as for the 351c being superior
>> >
>> > 351c, produced 5 years, 70-74
>> >
>> > 351w, produced 30 years, 69-98
>> >
>>
>> That illustrates what as to which engine is superior?
>>
>> The 351C/429/BOSS 302 canted valve style heads were the best pushrod head
>> design Ford ever sold, far superior to any factory Ford Windsor head.
>> That
>> is fact, not opinion.
>
> the 351c heads may be "superior" but the 351c engine as a total package
> is not really superior, the 351c had better heads but had poor oilling
> system,shorter deck height.
> FWIW the boss 302 was a "windsor" with 351c style heads and the 95
> cobra R was all 351 windsor. nascar engines are hybrids utilizing the
> best of both designs,also the original 351w 4 barrel engine was rated
> at 290 hp while most 351c 4 barrel engines hovered around 300 hp +/-

The Cleveland "Poor Oiling" issues were never as serious of a problem as
some people like to infer. There are many high performance Cleveland
engines running many thousands of HARD miles on unaltered factory original
oiling systems with ZERO problems.

The pinnacle of 351 Windsor head carbureted performance, should be compared
to the pinnacle of the Cleveland's factory carbureted performance which is
330 horsepower. That 40 horsepower just reaffirms the original statement,
the 351 Cleveland was superior to the 351 Windsor.

Factory or modified, dollar for dollar, a whole lot more horsepower is
available from a 351 Cleveland than a 351 Windsor. As for the 351C being
superior, Yep, That's fact.